NEMA 6-50 wiring oven

[newpain01]

Hey everyone!

I have an old oven on the garage that I plan to use for baking powder coated parts and need to wire a plug. The oven is 240V and has 4 wires (black, red, white and a bare ground wire) and I have NEMA 6-50R receptacle that only has 3 wires. I wired the black (left side), red (right side) and ground wire (top side) and put a wire nut on the white wire, but the oven doesn't power up, so the question is, what should I do with the white wire?

Appreciate any help!

 

[75gmck25]

Does the oven have any 120 volt components, like a timer or lights? That's usually why they need four wires to operate, because 4 wires allows you to have both 120V and 240V.

 

[newpain01]

It does have some features (I have not looked at them though), so I am sure there is a light inside and most likely a timer. I just want to wire it to turn on/off and maybe adjust temperature. It previously had a NEMA 10-30 plug and the white and ground wires were wired together on the neutral pin, if that helps. I don't have a NEMA 10-30 outlet in the garage, so need to rewire it now.

 

[mike93lx]

You need to add a neutral to the receptacle. Don't tie the neutral and ground together

 

[TRWham]

Controls likely need 120 V so a neutral is needed. 10-30 used 2 lines plus the neutral with the ground tied to the neutral. You should not tie the neutral to a bare ground.

 

[newpain01]

The 6-50R receptacle only has 3 wires as shown on the picture below, top is ground and the other 2 are hot. It has a Romex 10/2 cable going into the breaker box. How can I add a neutral to this?

I was looking to wire it like shown on the picture in this post: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/nema-6-50r-wiring-and-breaker-install-for-welder.188914/

 

[mike93lx]

Replace the 2 conductor cable with 3 conductor.

And you need a 30a breaker with #10 wire. To run a 50a, you need 6/3

 

[newpain01]

I have a 30a breaker, but don't need to run 50amps, I'll be using this for a 15amp air compressor and this 15-20 amp oven.

If I replace the cable how can I wire the 4 wires to the plug pictured above, or would you wire ground only on the metal part of the receptacle (my boxes are plastic)?

 

[mike93lx]

I have a 30a breaker, but don't need to run 50amps, I'll be using this for a 15amp air compressor and this 15-20 amp oven.

If I replace the cable how can I wire the 4 wires to the plug pictured above?

You can't. You need a 4 wire receptacle.

All the three wire stuff is not of use for the oven.

What's the HP rating on the compressor?

 

[newpain01]

Ah, got it, so I can't use this oven with the existing receptacle.
The air compressor is rated at 3.7HP and the info plate on the motor says 15amp max.

 

[newpain01]

Which receptacle would I need to use? The air compressor has a 6-50 plug already and only has 3 wires, works fine with the current receptacle. Do I have any other options to use this oven in the garage without rewiring the whole thing?

 

[sparky 1971]

You need a 14-50. You will be fine running 8/3 and using a 40 amp breaker. I do it all the time because I hate trying to stuff #6 in the box.

The oven needs two hots, a neutral because the controls and the light are 120 volt, and a ground. The compressor is two hots and a ground because it doesn't need a neutral. The oven didn't fire up because it doesn't have a neutral for the control circuit.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Leviton-279-S00-Industrial-Grade-Flush-Mounting-Straight-Blade-Power-Receptacle-3P-50A-NEMA-14-50R-Black-125-250V?utm_source=google_ad&utm_medium=pmax&utm_campaign=pmax_nca_test&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwtJKqBhCaARIsAN_yS_nLhViezVfzMCQQjXPouOOTd_UJnLLfZ3bgLe7hVYmzICZMxWkv3VYaAi7GEALw_wcB

 

[mike93lx]

Which receptacle would I need to use? The air compressor has a 6-50 plug already and only has 3 wires, works fine with the current receptacle. Do I have any other options to use this oven in the garage without rewiring the whole thing?

The compressor doesn't need a neutral since it doesn't have any 120v controls like the oven.

Can you leave the current circuit for the compressor and run a new one for the oven?

 

[newpain01]

I don't have any more empty spots for a new breaker in the breaker box. There are 2 of these 6-50 receptacles and I was planning to use one for the compressor and the other for the oven.

 

[whateg01]

Or hire somebody to wire it for you

 

[mike93lx]

I don't have any more empty spots for a new breaker in the breaker box. There are 2 of these 6-50 receptacles and I was planning to use one for the compressor and the other for the oven.

You may be able to use tandems, but either way, you need a different oven or need to rewire.

If you are already full, I'd consider a small sub panel.

 

[newpain01]

Let's say if I have someone rewire and replace both receptacles with 14-50, I could still keep the 6-50 plug on the compressor and use it with the 14-50 receptacle, right?

 

[mike93lx]

Let's say if I have someone rewire and replace both receptacles with 14-50, I could still keep the 6-50 plug on the compressor and use it with the 14-50 receptacle, right?

No. They aren't interchangable

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You may be able to use tandems, but either way, you need a different oven or need to rewire.

If you are already full, I'd consider a small sub panel.

He would need a quad breaker if he was gonna use tandems, depending on the panel model.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Let's say if I have someone rewire and replace both receptacles with 14-50, I could still keep the 6-50 plug on the compressor and use it with the 14-50 receptacle, right?

No. You would need an adapter.

 

[mike93lx]

He would need a quad breaker if he was gonna use tandems, depending on the panel model.

Sure, if that's on this circuits. My first thought is swap out some single pole circuits to tandem to free up space

 

[sparky 1971]

How about posting a picture of the panel along with the model number. Usually, if can take tandems, it's part of the #. IE 1224, 1624, 2040, etc

 

[newpain01]

Not sure where to find the model number, but here are some pictures. Looking at the breaker now, it’s a 20 amp, not 30 like I thought.

 

[sparky 1971]

The label on the cover is for four different panels, but the key part is the 3040 in every number. 30 spaces, 40 circuits. It's twinnable, and though I'm not an expert on Siemens panels, I'd be willing to bet the five spaces on each side at the bottom are where the tandems can go.

EDIT: Since it's bottom fed, it will be the five spaces at the top on each side.

You'll have to do a little rearranging to make it work, but it's doable. The breaker for the compressor will have to move down and out of the tandem territory.

 

[mike93lx]

Assuming it is actually #10 to the compressor, this could do it with some 8/3 NM-B to the oven

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Siemens...ouble-Pole-Circuit-Breaker-Q24030CT2/30290761 1

 

[sparky 1971]

Assuming it is actually #10 to the compressor, this could do it with some 8/3 NM-B to the oven

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Siemens...ouble-Pole-Circuit-Breaker-Q24030CT2/30290761 1

I never even think of quads since every single time I've wanted one in the past, nobody had one in stock.

 

[mike93lx]

I never even think of quads since every single time I've wanted one in the past, nobody had one in stock.

I wasn't thinking of it either... That credit goes to Wylie. Does make the install a lot easier

 

[mm08822]

Why hasnt anyone suggested using a 3 wire cord from the stove to the existing recept?

New stoves today are providing the option of using 3 or 4 wire cords by simply changing the bonding jumper in the appliance. Why cant OP do that with the old stove?

Am I missing a stated detail?

 

[Norcal]

Why hasnt anyone suggested using a 3 wire cord from the stove to the existing recept?

New stoves today are providing the option of using 3 or 4 wire cords by simply changing the bonding jumper in the appliance. Why cant OP do that with the old stove?

Am I missing a stated detail?

A huge detail, you can't use a bare EGC as a neutral, & 3-wire is not allowed in new installs only existing.

 

[Norcal]

Since the panel is bottom fed, the notched bus stabs will be at the top of the panel, I see one way to free some space, get two 15-15 twins and install one in place of the single pole for the garbage disposal, then take the microwave circuit & move it to the same spot, then if the two 15A circuits are not a multiwire circuit, use the other twin to handle the other 2- 15A circuits above where the microwave circuit was, leaving 2 open spaces for a 2 pole breaker. Posting a photo of the panel interior will be helpful to see if the above idea will work.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Why hasnt anyone suggested using a 3 wire cord from the stove to the existing recept?

New stoves today are providing the option of using 3 or 4 wire cords by simply changing the bonding jumper in the appliance. Why cant OP do that with the old stove?

Am I missing a stated detail?

he has a n6-50r. thats the wrong receptacle for a stove. he would need a 10-50r (not allowed for new circuits) for a stove plus the 6-50r receptacle is fed w/ 2 hots & a bare ground in NM. thats not kosher either.

 

[mm08822]

I missed the fact this was a new circuit and in NM-B. I was thinking he just had the wrong recept on an existing ckt and needed 3-wire dryer cord with matching recept.

Yup, new circuit = 4-wire. Much safer than getting bit by a possible open neutral.