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Neutral wire needed for typical 220 welder/plasma?

sberry

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He may thought oven like kiln? I can say this for a fact though. Very little of the what if stuff did I ever use over the years and as often as not it hurt as much as it helped. Backing out a fitting or 2 extra once in a decade is often better than adding a fistful of valves and unions and as often I am changing a design anyway or by then a better way has occurred to me or even simply a better way to do it.
Last air remodel I did removed a bunch of line and some fittings.
 
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ssdave

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I'd add in the neutral. Little cost and then there's no question about code compliance.


I tried to wire my shop a couple of houses ago with a 3 wire, the inspector red-tagged it. I showed him the code for welding circuits, and that they could specifically be 3 wire, but he wouldn't accept it. He would only accept it if the welder were hard wired into the circuit. Furthermore, he then showed me that the fan on my welder is a 120 volt; so even if I hard wired it in, he would red tag it because I had a 120 volt appliance (the welder fan) that was using the ground for a neutral.

So, to get my electrical final inspection completed, I had to install a 4-wire receptacle and put a 4 prong plug on my welder to use that receptacle.

Strictly speaking, you can have a dedicated welding 240V outlet that is 3 wire, but bottom line is the inspector may not accept it.
 

lazer50

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Never heard of that situation must have been a contrary inspector.and as far as the gentleman with the 80000 shop i wouldn't think he would use a kitchen oven for powder coating equipment.
 

wyliesdiesels

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I'd add in the neutral. Little cost and then there's no question about code compliance.


I tried to wire my shop a couple of houses ago with a 3 wire, the inspector red-tagged it. I showed him the code for welding circuits, and that they could specifically be 3 wire, but he wouldn't accept it. He would only accept it if the welder were hard wired into the circuit. Furthermore, he then showed me that the fan on my welder is a 120 volt; so even if I hard wired it in, he would red tag it because I had a 120 volt appliance (the welder fan) that was using the ground for a neutral.

So, to get my electrical final inspection completed, I had to install a 4-wire receptacle and put a 4 prong plug on my welder to use that receptacle.

Strictly speaking, you can have a dedicated welding 240V outlet that is 3 wire, but bottom line is the inspector may not accept it.

What model welder is this?

I bet it had a small transformer in it.
 

ssdave

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It was a Marquette "farmer welder", probably from the 50's or 60's. Don't have it anymore, so can't give more information than that.

He was very contrary as inspectors go. He was a former industrial electrician, more versed in high voltage and high current applications than in residential electrical.

The advice I was given a long time ago (quite politically incorrect today):

Arguing with the building inspector is like winning the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.
 

wyliesdiesels

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Since its so old i doubt will be able to find exact info.

However a google search led me to forums where guys said its 240v 3-wire. Who knows.

And insoectors cant make u do things that are outside of code.

If he red tags for not doing something that isnt required by code, then u file a complaint. Sounds like the one u had only Knew enough to be dangerous.
 

ssdave

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He was technically right, the welder had a 120 fan in it, it was wired from one leg of the 120 to ground. What I did was not right, I installed a 4 prong receptacle, then installed a 4 prong plug on the welder, but didn't hook up the neutral. So, the ground was still carrying some 120v current when I was finished. The welder outlet was about 3 feet from the power panel, and of course it was a dedicated circuit, so carrying current on the ground really wasn't a big issue. The inspectors issue with the outlet is that it had a dryer receptacle; someone could hook a dryer up to it and then it wouldn't be compliant. In the area of Utah we lived in, that wouldn't have been uncommon; with large families, sometimes an extra washer and dryer were installed in the garage.

The current carrying ground problem had existed on the welder since it was made; the case, which was grounded, was also electrically connected to 120 volts through the fan. To be absolutely safe, I should have ran a neutral into the case, and connected the fan to that instead of the ground.

You're right, you can file a complaint and make the inspector eat his inspection on something like this. But, he'll work amazingly hard to find other things wrong and make your life miserable. Far better to spend $20 and a half hour on the plug/receptacle changeout instead. Let him win, it' keeps him off your back on other stuff.
 
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justbarriault

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Never heard of that situation must have been a contrary inspector.and as far as the gentleman with the 80000 shop i wouldn't think he would use a kitchen oven for powder coating equipment.

That's what a friend uses for his DIY kit and it works great
 

-Brent-

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I put two welder circuits in my shop and I had some leftover 6/3 that I could've used on the second one (when I chose to have another) but I couldn't justify running it if it's not needed. I feel like if you REALLY want to plan for the future, access for wiring and space [to grow] in your panel are the important things to have.
 

justbarriault

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Never heard of that situation must have been a contrary inspector.and as far as the gentleman with the 80000 shop i wouldn't think he would use a kitchen oven for powder coating equipment.

Just because I have an $80,000 shop doesn't mean I need a $10,000 powder coating kit either... I'm glad I spent the extra $100...
 

sberry

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Were car chargers coming 50A 3 pole 4 wire? You could extend it as an RV circuit. Bt in a home garage with modern equipment would have ran everything I could have from a roll of 10/2 hahaha
 
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lazer50

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What i should have said was. I couldn't picture a kitchen oven being in a 80000 shop.is that better. I built a 40 by 60 14 ft ceilings and have right around 90k in mine and couldn't picture one in mine but i dont powder coat either.
 

justbarriault

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What i should have said was. I couldn't picture a kitchen oven being in a 80000 shop.is that better. I built a 40 by 60 14 ft ceilings and have right around 90k in mine and couldn't picture one in mine but i dont powder coat either.

Well with all of those long nights in the shop it would be nice to have to chicken nuggets
 
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