Neutrals won’t reach in new panel. Options?

[alfredeneuman]

Yea the good ol'days of a full boat ABC and a shared neutral are over.

That is a multiwire branch circuit and is allowed.

 

[ArcReactorKC]

That is a multiwire branch circuit and is allowed.

My understanding was it was not allowed as of circa 2012. However my recollection would have been a commercial environment and I have zero code reference to back it up.

I recall having a failed inspection for a shared neutral mwbc and the breakers not having handle ties.

 

[mm08822]

It failed for no handle ties.

 

[cgrutt]

That is a multiwire branch circuit and is allowed.

Just curious how many conductors are on the 10G cable that feeds "several" 14 GA circuits because it doesn't sound like a multiwire branch circuit, at least how I understand that term to mean. I'm not an electrician and not criticizing your comment just trying to understand it. To me multiline branch circuit means two hots (attached to two breakers) sharing a common neutral (and ground). The way you described it I'm envisioning a two conductor 10 GA cable (with hot attached to one breaker) leading out to a junction box somewhere in your yard which is then feeding several 14 GA circuits. If this is the case i have no idea if it is permitted by NEC or not (it should be IMO but I'm not an electrician) but it's not a multiwire branch circuit, at least what I understand that term to mean. Again just curious.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

Wire nuts in the panel to extend as needed. Done all the time for panel swaps and the only people who will have a problem with it have unhealthy OCD. No different than a splice in a junction box anywhere else in the house, if done correctly.

 

[sparky 1971]

Just curious how many conductors are on the 10G cable that feeds "several" 14 GA circuits because it doesn't sound like a multiwire branch circuit, at least how I understand that term to mean. I'm not an electrician and not criticizing your comment just trying to understand it. To me multiline branch circuit means two hots (attached to two breakers) sharing a common neutral (and ground). The way you described it I'm envisioning a two conductor 10 GA cable (with hot attached to one breaker) leading out to a junction box somewhere in your yard which is then feeding several 14 GA circuits. If this is the case i have no idea if it is permitted by NEC or not (it should be IMO but I'm not an electrician) but it's not a multiwire branch circuit, at least what I understand that term to mean. Again just curious.

If you look at the post he quoted, it's a MWBC. ABC would be three phase, phase A, phase B, phase C, and a shared neutral. We call those boats, but I have no idea why.

 

[cgrutt]

If you look at the post he quoted, it's a MWBC. ABC would be three phase, phase A, phase B, phase C, and a shared neutral. We call those boats, but I have no idea why.

Sorry, my bad. I thought he was referring to this post, which I was actually talking about.

Sure -- as long as you only use a 15 amp breaker!
(edit: I'm assuming you mean for one individual circuit, with the splice inside a junction box rather than the main panel)

During our initial house construction, I ran a 10 gauge cable underground to my front yard. Not knowing what I'd eventually use it for, I chose the biggest cable I might need. Now it's attached to several 14 gauge cables going to different locations. There's only a few lights on the circuit, so I don't worry about voltage drop. But that's one reason I'd use a larger cable on a 15 amp circuit.

 

[kbuhagiar]

Wire nuts in the panel to extend as needed. Done all the time for panel swaps and the only people who will have a problem with it have unhealthy OCD. No different than a splice in a junction box anywhere else in the house, if done correctly.

Exactly. I have no idea what the fuss is all about.

I've had professional electricians upgrade panels in all three homes I've owned. In two houses they spliced wires in the panel to extend some of the wires; in the third they actually added a junction box close by to enclose all of the splices that were needed. They always used wire nuts, and in every case the work was done neatly and professionally and did not detract in any way from the appearance of the wiring.

Ultimately it's all behind a closed panel, so really it's not that much different from all the other wire nut splices found behind switch & outlet faceplates throughout most residences, and, let's face it, some of those are perfectly safe and functional, but aren't much to look at, so what's the big deal?

 

[walrus]

Wire nuts in the panel to extend as needed. Done all the time for panel swaps and the only people who will have a problem with it have unhealthy OCD. No different than a splice in a junction box anywhere else in the house, if done correctly.

If you really want to drive electricians nuts use the **** splice like wagos to extend the wire. I see wire nuts in panels is a code violation all the time on line.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yea the good ol'days of a full boat ABC and a shared neutral are over. Well in this case I guess a full boat is just AB and a shared neutral.

not true. 3 ungrounded phase conductors and neutral from a Wye connected system is code compliant.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

My understanding was it was not allowed as of circa 2012. However my recollection would have been a commercial environment and I have zero code reference to back it up.

I recall having a failed inspection for a shared neutral mwbc and the breakers not having handle ties.

2012 is not code cycle year.

code does not differentiate between residential and commercial

there is no such code

you failed inspection because of no handle ties, not because it was an MWBC

 

[RickP]

Just curious how many conductors are on the 10G cable that feeds "several" 14 GA circuits because it doesn't sound like a multiwire branch circuit, at least how I understand that term to mean. I'm not an electrician and not criticizing your comment just trying to understand it. To me multiline branch circuit means two hots (attached to two breakers) sharing a common neutral (and ground). The way you described it I'm envisioning a two conductor 10 GA cable (with hot attached to one breaker) leading out to a junction box somewhere in your yard which is then feeding several 14 GA circuits. If this is the case i have no idea if it is permitted by NEC or not (it should be IMO but I'm not an electrician) but it's not a multiwire branch circuit, at least what I understand that term to mean. Again just curious.

You know, I probably didn't explain it very well in my first post...

Sorry, my bad. I thought he was referring to this post, which I was actually talking about.

I basically wired several outdoor lights/outlets on one 15 amp circuit. It would be similar to running 14 gauge cable throughout an unfinished basement ceiling, for all the light fixtures and ceiling outlets (for shop lights). The only difference is that I fed the outdoor junction box with 10 gauge cable because the run was so long, then used 14 gauge cable splitting off to each light fixture. (10 gauge was complete overkill in this case, because there are only a handful of regular light bulbs and several strands of Christmas lights on the circuit, so the voltage drop is small.).

It only has one 15 amp breaker, so it's definitely not a multi-wire branch circuit. I have many of those throughout my house, and one MWBC running underground about 750 feet from the panel (on 14-3 cable).

 

[mike93lx]

If you really want to drive electricians nuts use the **** splice like wagos to extend the wire. I see wire nuts in panels is a code violation all the time on line.

I'd love to get an internet myths code book at some point. I wonder what page "no romex in conduit" is on?

 

[cgrutt]

You know, I probably didn't explain it very well in my first post...

I basically wired several outdoor lights/outlets on one 15 amp circuit. It would be similar to running 14 gauge cable throughout an unfinished basement ceiling, for all the light fixtures and ceiling outlets (for shop lights). The only difference is that I fed the outdoor junction box with 10 gauge cable because the run was so long, then used 14 gauge cable splitting off to each light fixture. (10 gauge was complete overkill in this case, because there are only a handful of regular light bulbs and several strands of Christmas lights on the circuit, so the voltage drop is small.).

It only as one 15 amp breaker, so it's definitely not a multi-wire branch circuit. I have many of those throughout my house, and one MWBC running underground about 750 feet from the panel (on 14-3 cable).

Yeah that's what I thought I just got confused with the MWBC but you never said that my apologies.

 

[RickP]

Yeah that's what I thought I just got confused with the MWBC but you never said that my apologies.

no worries -- your post helped me think about how I could have said it better!

I really like how DIY info is shared freely on this forum. (some of it wrong, unfortunately...) But I even learn from reading the wrong stuff and the pros correcting it. I'd never heard of a MWBC before joining GJ, and my whole house is wired with them. So I might have really screwed one of them up if not for this forum!

 

[cgrutt]

no worries -- your post helped me think about how I could have said it better!

I really like how DIY info is shared freely on this forum. (some of it wrong, unfortunately...) But I even learn from reading the wrong stuff and the pros correcting it. I'd never heard of a MWBC before joining GJ, and my whole house is wired with them. So I might have really screwed one of them up if not for this forum!

I learned about MWBC recently here too! Unfortunately took me getting shocked with breaker off to ask about what could be causing it and it turned out to be a MWBC with half of the circuit still energized and I was getting shocked through the shared neutral (when disconnected at junction box).

 

[RickP]

I learned about MWBC recently here too! Unfortunately took me getting shocked with breaker off to ask about what could be causing it and it turned out to be a MWBC with half of the circuit still energized and I was getting shocked through the shared neutral (when disconnected at junction box).

That could have been me (easily), especially because my house was built just before the code change requiring breaker handle ties. I might add them someday... right after I finish all the other stuff on my list!

back to the OP's question -- I have a bunch of wire nuts inside my panel (installed during the house construction and inspected for the permit). They look like hell, so I may swap them out for the Wago inline connectors recommended in this thread (someday).