New construction - Electrical and Lighting

[TJG]

I recently built a new house coupled with a detached 34x30 garage (pictures here). Looking for some feedback on my electrical and lighting ideas.

The garage has a 100amp subpanel already installed by the electrician. I'll be pulling wires myself and using him, as needed, to hook things up. The garage stores my toys - no heavy equipment now or in the foreseeable future (except for a lift).

For power, I was planning on doing 4 circuits with 20amp breakers (subpanel outlet and garage doors are already wired), 12-2 romex. This should be enough for tools (power tools, bench grinder, compressor, chargers, etc) as well as my Hobart handler welder. Dedicated circuit for the lift to be installed by electrician. Outlet boxes centered at 52in. Is this adequate for power?

For lights, I plan on using all T8. The double stall 'side' has a 10ft ceiling that runs approximately 18ft across. I was thinking three lights 'zones' in this area. The remaining 16ft (the single stall side) has a cathedral ceiling to near 25ft. I was thinking two zones on this (front and back), with the front side also illuminating two T8s mounted to the side walls. This side will have the lift.

See the 'sketch' below (I'm horrible and this sort of stuff). It's pretty much to scale. I've not done ANY lighting calculations, just estimating lights needed off what is in my attached garage the the light output in there. The approximate lighting layout is shown (obviously, i'll actually measure when i put them up).

I'll also have a work bench at the back of the single side (so i can go from bench to engine of car on the lift). I'll probably run dedicated lights over here too (on a switch near the bench).

So, thoughts on my plans? Am i an idiot, or going in the right direction?

 

[JoeFin]

your going to need more light

 

[2ManyProjects]

I recently built a new house coupled with a detached 34x30 garage (pictures here). Looking for some feedback on my electrical and lighting ideas.

The garage has a 100amp subpanel already installed by the electrician. I'll be pulling wires myself and using him, as needed, to hook things up. The garage stores my toys - no heavy equipment now or in the foreseeable future (except for a lift).

For power, I was planning on doing 4 circuits with 20amp breakers (subpanel outlet and garage doors are already wired), 12-2 romex. This should be enough for tools (power tools, bench grinder, compressor, chargers, etc) as well as my Hobart handler welder. Dedicated circuit for the lift to be installed by electrician. Outlet boxes centered at 52in. Is this adequate for power?

For the "general purpose" 120V outlets scattered about the space, that should be fine (actually, even just two 20A circuits would likely be adequate, if they're done right). The compressor & welder are another matter, however...

The welder MAY be perfectly OK as well; I'm not familiar with that model, so wouldn't want to mislead. But I will say that, even if that welder is perfectly happy running off a common household 15A/120V circuit, the NEXT welder you buy probably won't be. Something to keep in mind.

Much the same logic applies to the compressor. The only compressors which will be happy with so little power are decidedly on the wimpy side (definitely well under 2HP; very probably less than 1HP). Now, if you're only using it to fill tires and/or run the occasional lug wrench (possibly with pauses between each lug nut, to allow the tank pressure to recover), you MAY be OK. But most folks outfitting a "working" shop -- even a "home hobbyist working shop", go with at least a 3HP or so compressor, which generally requires a dedicated 240V circuit.

Bottom Line: You're going to a lot of work (and spending a fair chunk of change) to build yourself a nice new "toy palace". If you are serious enough to even be considering a lift, then the odds are you are ALSO serious enough that you WILL want heavier-duty tools & machinery than you've thus far described.

Some reference materials you might find "interesting":

http://www.truetex.com/aircompressors.htm
http://www.wisedan.com/aircomp
http://home.roadrunner.com/~jeffnann/WoodWorking/Shop/HP/Horsepower.html
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/35208-Lies-Damn-Lies-and-Horsepower-Ratings
http://www.buildmyowncabin.com/nec/nec2011_table430.247.html

For lights, I plan on using all T8. The double stall 'side' has a 10ft ceiling that runs approximately 18ft across. I was thinking three lights 'zones' in this area.

I would probably not bother attempting to "zone" such a relatively small space. What you DO want to do, is set up the switching to provide granular control over the intensity of the lighting at any given moment, as needed. In practice, this means at least three switch banks: One for the "walk through" lighting, with the rest of the main lighting split (preferably on about a 60/40 or maybe 65/35 basis) between the other two.

And JoeFin is right: You're going to need a LOT more light than you're currently showing. Assuming that section of the garage is about 18'x30', and aiming for 100 lumens/ft.^2 at working height, you're going to need at least 22-24 F32T8 tubes to do the job -- and even more won't hurt, if it turns out you need them to fill out your desired lighting pattern. Which brings us to: You're also going to want to orient them quite differently than the arrangement you show. Think about it: What good is it to brightly illuminate the roofs of the parked cars, especially at the expense of the areas where you actually WILL be working?

The remaining 16ft (the single stall side) has a cathedral ceiling to near 25ft. I was thinking two zones on this (front and back), with the front side also illuminating two T8s mounted to the side walls. This side will have the lift.

Lighting a lift-equipped bay can be a challenge, to say the least. The main problem is, with respect to ANY overhead-mounted lights, the car itself casts a huge shadow in exactly the wrong place. Your idea to use (at least some) wall-mounted lights is not a bad one; but you WILL need far more than two of them, and they need to be mounted low enough to actually throw light UP onto the underside of the elevated vehicle, in order to do you any good. That typically means that they are in a rather "vulnerable" location, so only fixtures with good impact protection should be considered. It also means that the lights will probably wind up being more-or-less at eye level, which can be VERY annoying, especially if those lights are on the "bright" side; single-tube F32T8 fixtures may be your best bet here, in order to keep the potential for blinding glare to a minimum. Also, do you actually have a real wall between the lift bay and the main part of the garage, to mount the fixtures to on that side?

I'll also have a work bench at the back of the single side (so i can go from bench to engine of car on the lift). I'll probably run dedicated lights over here too (on a switch near the bench).

A workbench should ALWAYS have dedicated task lighting. Ditto for any permanently installed "machinery" (bench grinders, drill presses, table/chop saws, etc.). But that usually doesn't really have much/any impact on the GENERAL lighting of the space as a whole.

So, thoughts on my plans? Am i an idiot, or going in the right direction?

Not an idiot. But not going in the right direction, either.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Which hobart Handler welder do u have? Some require only 120v while other require 240v.

You should really figure out what size compressor and welder you MIGHT buy in the future, so u can put the proper outlets in now!

 

[TJG]

For the "general purpose" 120V outlets scattered about the space, that should be fine (actually, even just two 20A circuits would likely be adequate, if they're done right). The compressor & welder are another matter, however...

The welder MAY be perfectly OK as well; I'm not familiar with that model, so wouldn't want to mislead. But I will say that, even if that welder is perfectly happy running off a common household 15A/120V circuit, the NEXT welder you buy probably won't be. Something to keep in mind.

Much the same logic applies to the compressor. The only compressors which will be happy with so little power are decidedly on the wimpy side (definitely well under 2HP; very probably less than 1HP). Now, if you're only using it to fill tires and/or run the occasional lug wrench (possibly with pauses between each lug nut, to allow the tank pressure to recover), you MAY be OK. But most folks outfitting a "working" shop -- even a "home hobbyist working shop", go with at least a 3HP or so compressor, which generally requires a dedicated 240V circuit.

Bottom Line: You're going to a lot of work (and spending a fair chunk of change) to build yourself a nice new "toy palace". If you are serious enough to even be considering a lift, then the odds are you are ALSO serious enough that you WILL want heavier-duty tools & machinery than you've thus far described.

Some reference materials you might find "interesting":

http://www.truetex.com/aircompressors.htm
http://www.wisedan.com/aircomp
http://home.roadrunner.com/~jeffnann/WoodWorking/Shop/HP/Horsepower.html
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/35208-Lies-Damn-Lies-and-Horsepower-Ratings
http://www.buildmyowncabin.com/nec/nec2011_table430.247.html

Noted. I'll add extra dedicated circuits for future welder and compressor.

I would probably not bother attempting to "zone" such a relatively small space. What you DO want to do, is set up the switching to provide granular control over the intensity of the lighting at any given moment, as needed. In practice, this means at least three switch banks: One for the "walk through" lighting, with the rest of the main lighting split (preferably on about a 60/40 or maybe 65/35 basis) between the other two.

I'll give this a shot. I've looked at another thread you've commented on and have subscribed to it - I'll try to copy that one and come back with a better layout.

And JoeFin is right: You're going to need a LOT more light than you're currently showing. Assuming that section of the garage is about 18'x30', and aiming for 100 lumens/ft.^2 at working height, you're going to need at least 22-24 F32T8 tubes to do the job -- and even more won't hurt, if it turns out you need them to fill out your desired lighting pattern. Which brings us to: You're also going to want to orient them quite differently than the arrangement you show. Think about it: What good is it to brightly illuminate the roofs of the parked cars, especially at the expense of the areas where you actually WILL be working?

I used a calculator last night and came up with 28 4ft tubes (14 fixtures) - so this seems to be right in the ballpark of what you're suggesting.

Lighting a lift-equipped bay can be a challenge, to say the least. The main problem is, with respect to ANY overhead-mounted lights, the car itself casts a huge shadow in exactly the wrong place. Your idea to use (at least some) wall-mounted lights is not a bad one; but you WILL need far more than two of them, and they need to be mounted low enough to actually throw light UP onto the underside of the elevated vehicle, in order to do you any good. That typically means that they are in a rather "vulnerable" location, so only fixtures with good impact protection should be considered. It also means that the lights will probably wind up being more-or-less at eye level, which can be VERY annoying, especially if those lights are on the "bright" side; single-tube F32T8 fixtures may be your best bet here, in order to keep the potential for blinding glare to a minimum. Also, do you actually have a real wall between the lift bay and the main part of the garage, to mount the fixtures to on that side?

There is no wall between the lfit bay and main part - the lights would be mounted up near 11ft high on the side wall of the attic that is above the main bay.

On the outside wall, after some thought, I was thinking lights at 3.5ft or so, maybe 4ft? Out of direct eyesight unless my kids are in there. Portable worklights will be a must - sort of necessary evil when dealing with a lift.

A workbench should ALWAYS have dedicated task lighting. Ditto for any permanently installed "machinery" (bench grinders, drill presses, table/chop saws, etc.). But that usually doesn't really have much/any impact on the GENERAL lighting of the space as a whole.

Undercabinet flourescents?

Not an idiot. But not going in the right direction, either.

Which hobart Handler welder do u have? Some require only 120v while other require 240v.

You should really figure out what size compressor and welder you MIGHT buy in the future, so u can put the proper outlets in now!

I have the 120v version, just using for mild repair work when necessary, making small brackets, learning, etc.

 

[TJG]

Update: I ended up purchasing Simkar fixtures from my local lighting supply store. I'm going with 20 bulbs in the 10ft ceiling side and 22 in the lift side, including 4 bulbs for side lights and 2 for undercabinet lighting.

 

[TJG]

Here is my layout. Will do 4 switches - two banks on the right side and two banks on the left side. The side lights will double as the walk-through lights as well as additional light when working on the lift. Note that they are mounted at 10ft high - on the side of the lofted area. I'm going to use portable lights for working under cars.

 

[2ManyProjects]

Here is my layout. Will do 4 switches - two banks on the right side and two banks on the left side. The side lights will double as the walk-through lights as well as additional light when working on the lift. Note that they are mounted at 10ft high - on the side of the lofted area.

I can't say that I like this proposed layout all that much better than your original one. The tube count, and hence the overall average illumination level, is somewhat better; but that's where the good news ends. You're still putting WAY too much of the light in the wrong places, particularly on the flat-ceiling side of the shop. Among the issues:

-- I cannot discern from your sketch precisely where each "parking bay" is located; but it appears that much of the light is still concentrated over the roofs of the cars.

-- The gaps between each fixture in the two fore/aft runs are WAY too large; this will produce noticeable dark areas in between the relatively brightly-lit areas. Remember, virtually no light comes out of the END of a fluorescent tube/fixture.

-- At least the run on the right-hand side seems to be a bit further than ideal (4-5 feet?) from the wall (tho' this pales in importance to the inter-fixture gaps).

-- The back wall is not adequately covered, especially if there will be any storage (shelving, cabinets, etc.) located there.

-- The workbench will presumably get its own task lighting (not shown); which means there is little or no need to concentrate your general lighting in this area. That said, if the reason for putting four fixtures in such close proximity here is to light up open engine bays on NON-lifted vehicles, that makes some sense.

-- The so-called "side lighting" in the lift area is nowhere near low enough to be useful under a lifted vehicle, and in any case should be on BOTH sides.

There may be a few other minor items; but that's probably enough to get you chewing on "Version 3.0".

I'm going to use portable lights for working under cars.

That's probably inevitable, given the lift. But depending on the design details of the lift itself (2-post, 4-post, where exactly the controls & such are located, etc.), it MAY be possible to mount lights on the lift posts themselves, for use only when a vehicle is elevated.