Punchwood
Well-known member
That's garbage workmanship. That GC needs to learn a lesson over that fiasco. I can't believe that there's actually people that think it's OK or would work with the GC on it. Unreal.
New floor didn't go well
- Thread starter c6fan
- Start date
Higgins
Well-known member
I would be curious if the GC was there when the work was none?
What was his response when he saw it?
AL
What was his response when he saw it?
AL
03ranger
Well-known member
I would approach the issue a little differently. Contact the “American Concrete Institute" and ask for guidance on this issue: how the concrete was delivered and placed with pictures. Let both the GC and concrete company know that you have contacted the “American Concrete Institution. Having a credible and reliably third party investigation will usually prompt someone / everyone to step-up and correct the issue.
pauls_workshop
Well-known member
Having ground my floor the hard way - by hand, myself, with a little angle grinder, before doing epoxy myself, I don't think the floor is that terrible. Most of the difference in height or step can be ground over to blend in perfectly smooth. If you grind right, you won't get much grinder marks. Not to telegraph through. The biggest low spot you probably do want to fill in some more with something before you grind. Most of that I would say is ready for grinding step. When you do some of this kind of stuff yourself DIY you learn what you can do, can't, and what matters.
Alternatives to epoxy would be tile as discussed, where it isn't too important as it would be for epoxy. Good tile option here or just patch a little more, grind it, and good to go. I would use what you have for sure. I would get the contractor to admit it is screwed up and pay to have it ground down. Then you will be ready for epoxy and good to go for that. He learns a fairly cheap lesson and you get a ground floor out of it which you gotta do anyway for epoxy. - Paul
Alternatives to epoxy would be tile as discussed, where it isn't too important as it would be for epoxy. Good tile option here or just patch a little more, grind it, and good to go. I would use what you have for sure. I would get the contractor to admit it is screwed up and pay to have it ground down. Then you will be ready for epoxy and good to go for that. He learns a fairly cheap lesson and you get a ground floor out of it which you gotta do anyway for epoxy. - Paul
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I didn't even know there was an American Concrete Institute. That may be good to know if things turn negative with the GC. The GC hasn't really done anything wrong yet in my opinion (except maybe choose the wrong crew). It'l also my opinion that the fault lies with them since they sold their services as a professional crew. He has not paid them yet and I'm assuming if grinding is required it will come out of their earnings.
I'm impressed you were able to grind an entire floor by hand. That must have been quite a job. I can no longer even attempt such a task anymore. Besides I feel pretty strong at the grinding (if it happens) will be paid for by the GC. This is still my main objective, to do an epoxy floor.
duanesz
Well-known member
I made a mistake with concrete driveway. I went with lowest bidder and I got the lowest quality job. Never again.
NitroShark
Well-known member
ConCretin
Well-known member
There is..... but I guarantee they are not going to referee your dispute. ACI is an organization that forms committees to write specs and study concrete related issues. You can reference their publications to support your case but don't expect them to engage. Sometimes free advice isn't worth what you pay for it.
pauls_workshop
Well-known member
Hey C6, yeah, grinding by hand is hard, but not so bad with a 7" size. I used a 4.5" size, but I did my basement workshop floor, about the same area as a 1 car garage. For bigger than that, 7" grinder is recommended or the stand upright models, which of course are better, but also much more cost to rent. I did mine over a length of time and had to do part at a time, so renting was not a good option for me. I learned alot about grinding in the process! Now I'm a minor pro! You can buy the grinders and wheels and do it yourself for much much less than renting the upright machines 2 days, so for me, this was my preferred approach. The black and decker 8.5 amp 4.5" one is a great choice for that size, less than $40 on Amazon or similar.
I'd do it again and still use the 4.5" grinder but would also use a 7" grinder for the bulk of it next time as that is much faster. The 4.5" is better for blending in minor dip areas whereas the 7" is good for general surfacing. But use the 7" over minor dips and valleys and you have to remove tons more material to get it smooth there. Even worse with the standup bigger grinders. So a little one is good for blending in for small areas. Anyone wanting to DIY this grinding, you must have proper vacuum/grinder dust collection port/respirator to do it. Dust is zero if done right and horrible if not.
I think if you just grind it or have it done, you will be in pretty good shape here. It isn't that bad. I certainly wouldn't tear it up and start over. Good luck! - Paul
I'd do it again and still use the 4.5" grinder but would also use a 7" grinder for the bulk of it next time as that is much faster. The 4.5" is better for blending in minor dip areas whereas the 7" is good for general surfacing. But use the 7" over minor dips and valleys and you have to remove tons more material to get it smooth there. Even worse with the standup bigger grinders. So a little one is good for blending in for small areas. Anyone wanting to DIY this grinding, you must have proper vacuum/grinder dust collection port/respirator to do it. Dust is zero if done right and horrible if not.
I think if you just grind it or have it done, you will be in pretty good shape here. It isn't that bad. I certainly wouldn't tear it up and start over. Good luck! - Paul
Punchwood
Well-known member
The GC wasn't there for the pour? That is inexcusable !!!!!! If it were me, the "GC", and I use that term loosely, would be paying for the tear out and repour on HIS dime, and then his useless *** would be fired !
mygarageone
Well-known member
This wasn't a commercial project , the GC should not have to baby sit his subs.
The subs should be very capable of doing what they were hired to do other wise you hired the wrong people.
That's like expecting the home owner to baby sit the GC , if he has to do that he might as well be his own GC.
From what I read so far the op said the GC wants to take care of the problem , so I say , allow him too and move on.
LegacyIndustrial
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I wasn't going to comment, but this I have to mention.
The contractor only has to show substantial completion of the project to gain the majority of his funds.
A disparity of the finish, which technically can be repaired and coated , will not be enough to keep him from getting paid.
This is to keep contractors from getting hosed by fickle or broke clients.
Withhold payment and he will lien your home, you two will be tied at the hip until he is paid.
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I should mention that this shop is being built to match our house. Shingles, brick, paint, doors, etc. all the way down to the door knobs. The GC has taken care of everything. And, except for a few hickups, everything has been done pretty well. I have no intention of getting into a ******* contest just over the floor. I am very disappointed about the workmanship in the floor without a doubt. BUT, as I've stated, the GC is still working with us to resolve the issue. Also, let me clarify that the GC wasn't on site when the floor was 'done' but he was here when the floor was started.
Punchwood
Well-known member
Then why bother having a GC at all? Commercial or not, who cares?
The home owner baby sitting the GC? That's a terrible analogy. The Gc is paid to take care of everything so that the HO doesn't have to !!
Paint, electrical, and doorknobs are one thing, but the GD GC BETTER be there for the start of framing, the pour, and the roof. If he's not, he's not much of a GC.
Where I live, the carpenter is usually the GC on a project like this. They will pretty much take care of everything themselves except for concrete and electrical. That is still no excuse for hiring a bad concrete crew (cheapest guy to pocket more money himself), but most carpenters here know absolutely nothing about concrete; so why be there?
mygarageone
Well-known member
People who are not in the trades haven't a clue how it all works , The Gc was hired to run the whole project and he hires people whom he can trust ( most times ) There is no reason to baby sit a job for anyone . Thats why you hire qualified subs , you let them do there job and 90% of the time the GC doesn't have any problems , Besides all of that , what good would it have done to have the GC there anyhow ? He has no idea what the Concrete guys ordered for the job and there would have been nothing he could do at that point anyhow. I have worked in Commercial & residential and the Gc is not required to be on a project unless it's in the contract . He hires people who should know what they are doing , no reason to babysit them. Tell me something as soon as a boy becomes a man and you see that you can trust him , do you stay home and babysit him anyway ?
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mygarageone
Well-known member
People hire the Gc to do a complete job and allow him to run it as long as he knows what he's doing . THATS why people hire GC's , I hire people all the time to work on my home , they show up and I leave because they are supposed to know what they are doing , I have no need to babysit them.
You haven't a clue about what you are talking about.
Besides all of that , the Op said the GC was going to take care of the issue and that tells you a lot about the GC , he is taking the responsibility for the project as he should and that is why you hire GC's
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mygarageone
Well-known member
Project managers are hired to babysit jobs not GC's.
hoho98925
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Request that your GC to grind the floor. It's the finishers job to "finish the floor" unfortunately the finishers that you got stuck with left before they where done. If the mud isn't setting up ( wish I had a dollar every time I heard that) they need to stay till they can get an acceptable finish. If that means breaking out the lights and staying to midnight, they are getting paid for an acceptable finish. Your GC can have your floor ground, then "back charge" the finishers for the cost of that. He can hire a pro with a walk behind grinder and have an acceptable finish in a day or less. Problem solved. I would HIGHLY advise that anyone having slabs poured, have a written contract calling out slab flatness (typically 1/4" in 10') and finish required. IMHO it's a waste of time to try and place blame just insist the GC fix it. In the end it's his responsibility. Best of luck to you.
Mygarageone is correct. The true reason I hired a GC was because I didn't want to throw a dart at the yellow pages for each step of the project. Not knowing if any or all of them could be unethical or poorly skilled. Basically, I wanted to throw the dart one time instead of many. I hired the GC because he was recommended and then I went online to see he had built several very nice homes. I met with him several times before signing the contract and felt comfortable with him (and still do). I trusted him to hire skilled labor, not to do the work or supervise himself. Yes, I believe he made the wrong choice with the crew but I also believe he has worked with the same crew previously with no problems. I actually watched the crew finishing up, I stood and watched them for quite some time. I could not see the unevenness until I was able to walk on it and get a closer look.
Punchwood
Well-known member
In your previous comment to me you said, "you don't have a clue...."
Well Mr. Know-it-all, you have your comment above *** backwards. The PM sits in his office managing the GC as far as schedules, billing, etc., usually making a weekly site visit, while the GC is on site daily !!
I've been in the trades for years and have done projects all over this country. Get a clue.
mygarageone
Well-known member
From what I see you are not a contractor but a inspector ? Which means what ?
What do you think the term project mgr means ? They are basically baby sitters.
Punchwood
Well-known member
Which means that I'm the guy between the owner and the GC. Seriously, you need to stop because you most certainly have no clue.
In this case, being residential/small scale, the GC is also the superintendent. He is responsible for his subs. PERIOD.
In this case, being residential/small scale, the GC is also the superintendent. He is responsible for his subs. PERIOD.
mygarageone
Well-known member
This is exactly what I said or haven't you read that. But that does mean the GC has to be on the job every waking monument there is working going on.
Do you watch every welder that's on a job ? Not likely , your job is to make sure the welds meet the standards set for that job.
Your a welding inspector and that's all , how does that qualify you to judge how a job should be run.?
I have a cousin who is a welding inspector for a large very large pipe line contractor , he inspects the welds and that's about it. He gives his ok or he doesn.'t . My dad was a state inspector he ok'ed a job or he didn't that's about it . So I have some experience at this .
Plus the fact that I have been involved with the construction industry for 50 yrs both res and commercial , that gives me a some what better understanding of this industry.
I will say this once again , the OP's GC is doing exactly what he is contracted to do and the GC is going to take care of the op's concrete issue .?
I thinketh you are a micro manager and don't trust anyone to do there jobs.
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Punchwood
Well-known member
******** !!! Yes, my main job is as a welding inspector, HOWEVER the company I work for does construction management and covers all facets of testing- concrete, soils, MPE, etc, etc.- Don't tell me what I know and what I do !!
Now, because you'd rather pick nits than move on, read back and you'll see that I highlighted what the GC/Super should be there for- and the pour was one of them. Why? Because it's effing critical and is very often one of the areas prone to failure !!!
By the way genius, WTF do you do "in the trades" ??
"You're a welding inspector and that is all. Micromanager." SCREW YOU. You have no idea what I know and how I go about doing my job.
Now, because you'd rather pick nits than move on, read back and you'll see that I highlighted what the GC/Super should be there for- and the pour was one of them. Why? Because it's effing critical and is very often one of the areas prone to failure !!!
By the way genius, WTF do you do "in the trades" ??
"You're a welding inspector and that is all. Micromanager." SCREW YOU. You have no idea what I know and how I go about doing my job.
mygarageone
Well-known member
Read my profile .
I'm sure you are both very good at what you do and have wide knowledge of your respective fields. I didn't hire the GC to babysit anyone, I never expected him to be on site during all of the operations. I hired him to hire the correct contractors needed to build my shop. He is responsible for what the contractors do and he IS taking resposibility for the lumpy floor. He is doing everything he can to avoid removing the floor as am I. The GC has done nothing wrong with the exception of a laps in judgement with that one crew and I'm certain he would not have used them had he known.
Once again, the purpose of the post was to determine if my floor would be a good candidate for grinding not to decide if I should demo the floor or fire my GC. I have enjoyed reading all of the responses. I think I have received enough positive feedback to move forward with finding a grinder. I will post the followup after the floor is done. It may be a while. I still may try to finish the walls first so any paint won't hurt anything if it gets on the floor.
Once again, the purpose of the post was to determine if my floor would be a good candidate for grinding not to decide if I should demo the floor or fire my GC. I have enjoyed reading all of the responses. I think I have received enough positive feedback to move forward with finding a grinder. I will post the followup after the floor is done. It may be a while. I still may try to finish the walls first so any paint won't hurt anything if it gets on the floor.
mygarageone
Well-known member
I guess I am wondering why you have to grind the floor ? Why wouldn't the GC have that done for you ? Unless you actually want to ?
thegarageguy
Well-known member
this isn't the nicest or worse new pour I've come across, but who gives a **** if it's going to be grinded and coated anyway?
cre73
Well-known member
Compared to mine that looks pretty good. But I didn't pay to have mine done. Mine was done by Four Rednecks Concrete. Which included me and three friends.
Punchwood
Well-known member
Another PE with a GOD complex. Imagine that. LMAO.