New garage wiring issue.

[babyseal]

Woman plowed into my garage, $70k worth of damage. Having it completely rebuilt, almost done. Had to do some welding on a bracket for my air compressor, 220v isn't wired yet, so I used my little 110v welder plugged into a regular wall outlet, 15A breaker (I think). Overhead LED lights flicker every time the welder pulled current. My lights did not flicker before when using it. Everything electrical is new, ripped everything out, everything is on separate circuits. Contractor's electrician assured me this was normal. To date, I'm very much not impressed with his work. The lights are not connected to the same circuit as the wall receptacles. Made a point of checking them with a current tester.

Are the lights flickering normal?

Needs a bigger breaker to use my 110v welder? Use an outlet closer to breaker box?

 

[Wrench97]

Are the outlets/switches back stabbed or wrapped around the screw?
I would start by checking if the connections are tight in the panel both hot and neutral.

 

[babyseal]

Just went out to check, now the overhead lights in the garage section are out. Lights in wood shop fine. Receptacle I used with the welder is fine. No breakers kicked out. I'll check the panel wiring tomorrow while the boss contractor is here.

To say I'm unimpressed with his work would be an understatement. He's 5-6 weeks in, with no end in sight. If I wanted a hodgepodge of wires, done half arsed, I'd have done it myself. Unfortunately, he's got wires everywhere, unmarked, so it'd be a PITA to kick him off my property and finish myself. There's a bazzilion different circuits to sort through.

I'll pull a few receptacles at random and see how they're wired. Which is "better" backstabbed or wrapped? Personally, I usually wrap, then pinch it with needle nose pliers, or so my Pop taught me.

 

[PCustoms]

Is there a sub panel in the garage?

 

[kaymccampbell]

Just went out to check, now the overhead lights in the garage section are out. Lights in wood shop fine. Receptacle I used with the welder is fine. No breakers kicked out. I'll check the panel wiring tomorrow while the boss contractor is here.

To say I'm unimpressed with his work would be an understatement. He's 5-6 weeks in, with no end in sight. If I wanted a hodgepodge of wires, done half arsed, I'd have done it myself. Unfortunately, he's got wires everywhere, unmarked, so it'd be a PITA to kick him off my property and finish myself. There's a bazzilion different circuits to sort through.

I'll pull a few receptacles at random and see how they're wired. Which is "better" backstabbed or wrapped? Personally, I usually wrap, then pinch it with needle nose pliers, or so my Pop taught me.

Wrapped or clamped, which can look like backstabbed.
Also, it's possible he ran 14 gauge wire for your 15 amp circuits. Myself, I use the next wire size up, so I can upgrade a circuit by swapping out a breaker.

 

[The Cobbler]

might be a good time to cut your losses and get rid of him...

 

[babyseal]

Is there a sub panel in the garage?

No. One big enormous panel. Huge. Personally, I would have ran the woodshop side on a separate sub panel to simplify things, don't even need 220v in there. Could have used the old panel, and saved a fortune on wiring.

Wrapped or clamped, which can look like backstabbed.
Also, it's possible he ran 14 gauge wire for your 15 amp circuits. Myself, I use the next wire size up, so I can upgrade a circuit by swapping out a breaker.

Supposed to be running 12g wiring in the wall receptacles, for just that reason. I think he ran 14g for the stuff like overhead lights, security lights, outside lights, overhead fans, etc. Nothing that pulls alot of current and will never change. But when I pull receptacles, I'll check.

might be a good time to cut your losses and get rid of him...

Giving them till Friday.

 

[BillK]

How do you know the lights are flickering when you use the welder ?

Are the led lights new or have they always been there ? I have a couple of LED shop lamps at my business that do not like it when I turn on the dust collector on my blast cabinet.

 

[babyseal]

Because everyone was oohing and aahing over the little Forney welder and wanted to give it a try. It is, in fact, an awesome little welder for what it is.

LED are new strip lights replacing fluorescents.

 

[mm08822]

Any pics of the work?

 

[babyseal]

I'll see if I can figure out how to get pics off my phone. Still a work in progress. About 90% complete other than the &%!%! wiring, air plumbing, and getting cabinets, pegboard, shelves up, and trimming it out. Then months of sorting everything back out. Everything jumbled together and shoved in my other garage, outbuilding, and a CONEX. It's a real mess.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

make and model of welder?

how long is the wire run to the welder receptacle?

pics of wiring and panel?

 

[BillK]

LED are new strip lights replacing fluorescents.

I would bet that the LED strips are the issue.

 

[Shiftless]

I would bet that the LED strips are the issue.

That’s also my guess.
What‘s the make and model of those strip lights you put into your $70K garage repair/remodel?

 

[yatg]

I'll see if I can figure out how to get pics off my phone.

Just email the pictures to yourself, assuming you have email on your phone and a desktop with email access.

 

[babyseal]

Loose grounds. Loose wires on the light switches. Some receptacles backstabbed, some properly wrapped...once these yokes are gone, I'll pull everything back out, fix as needed.

Real culprit apparently however; sensitive LEDs. Incandescent worklights and fluorescent shop lights don't flicker when I plug them and run the welder. Only the LED overheads.

Just email the pictures to yourself, assuming you have email on your phone and a desktop with email access.

I'm a Luddite and paranoid. My phone and my computer never meet, and my phone does nothing but make calls and texts.

 

[babyseal]

64x34, woodshop in the first bay, garage on the right two. Floor lift isn't in yet. After the woman plowed into it, we saved the left wall, half the back wall, the right wall, and the rear roll up. Raised the walls 4'. Still some wiring, security lights, air lines, paint, trim, and such to do. It's going to take months to fit out with cabinets, shelves, pegboard, racks, and sort through everything, get stuff where it needs to be.

Not happy with the compressor on the wall...loudest thing I've ever heard. Sounds like it somehow threw a rod while sitting, but no vibration at all, still pumps fine. All I can figure is the noise is getting reflected right back in your face. I certainly don't remember it being quite so loud, can't even talk while it's running.

 

[PCustoms]

Backstabbed, or back wired?

Did you spec grade of switches/outlets? If not, GC is likely to blame for cheap materials...

I hope those LED aren't the ones a friend has in his shop. The housing moves so much in temp swings they unplug themselves. We have a stick long enough to whack the end from the floor to re-connect them.

 

[sparky 1971]

If the lights are still out, check for a tripped GFCI. All garage receptacles, even on the ceiling, are supposed to be GFCI protected and even though it gets really blurry when I zoom in, I think I see the lights plugged in. BTW, those lights ate junk and will be nothing more than a headache.

 

[mm08822]

Can you take a closer Pic of the wiring into the panel.

Not sure the feeder wiring is up to snuff. Plus a few other miscellaneous details.

 

[mm08822]

Was any of the wiring inspected?

 

[aggie113]

Not happy with the compressor on the wall...loudest thing I've ever heard. Sounds like it somehow threw a rod while sitting, but no vibration at all, still pumps fine. All I can figure is the noise is getting reflected right back in your face. I certainly don't remember it being quite so loud, can't even talk while it's running.

Try making a box of acoustic denim around the top. You could enclose it pretty tight if you put in a vent above it to have it pull from attic space.

 

[sparky 1971]

Can you take a closer Pic of the wiring into the panel.

Not sure the feeder wiring is up to snuff. Plus a few other miscellaneous details.

That can't be what it looks like, can it? Because it sure looks like three individual conductors that should be in conduit. It's awfully blurry on my end, but I've never seen what looks like a black SER cable with three blacks and a green in it.

 

[whateg01]

Florescent and incandescent lights don't go dark instantly so if the power disappears for a moment you don't notice them flickering LED can go dark instantly, depending on the lights. So you see it.

 

[mm08822]

That can't be what it looks like, can it? Because it sure looks like three individual conductors that should be in conduit. It's awfully blurry on my end, but I've never seen a black SER cable.

That's what I'm thinking, too.

 

[babyseal]

It feeds 100A service to my back car garage as well, through a below ground conduit, if that makes a difference. Goes from box, out the wall into conduit, then turns down into the conduit in the concrete to the back garage.

I'll try to get a better pic with a hand camera I can hook to computer.

No inspections around these parts, that's why you hire a certified electrician. Or so the story goes. I know my limitations, and boxes are something I don't touch. This guy...I don't trust at all. He's dragged a 3 day job out 6 weeks. We don't speak.

 

[babyseal]

Try making a box of acoustic denim around the top. You could enclose it pretty tight if you put in a vent above it to have it pull from attic space.

I'm leaning toward having them take it back off the wall, put it in a corner where it belongs. This wall mount wasn't my idea, but I let the contractor run with it, as he was trying to squeeze out wall space for my machine tools. It was a good idea, just one of those things that I don't think is going to work. Too hard to service up there, air flow is blocked, and this noise thing is out of control. With the building mostly empty, it just bounces from one wall to the other. If by some fluke the compressor magically went bad while it's set for the last year and half, I don't feel like perching my fat heinie on a 12' ladder trying to work on it/lugging a compressor up/down, especially that close to the wall. I ran copper lines in the overhead, but have a 100' of Maxline and plenty of fittings, no big deal to relocate and tie in.

 

[babyseal]

BTW, those lights ate junk and will be nothing more than a headache.

That's my assessment as well. When I saw them on the ceiling, I had him go ahead and pick up a whole box of them for spares. When those run out, I'll probably put up fluorescent shop lights again. I give them 6 months, tops.

At this point I haven't had a garage/shop for 1 1/2+ years. My show car's been sitting outside the entire time. All my tools in storage. Couldn't even mow my own grass since my mower was stuck inside under the collapsed roof with all the doors boarded shut. 9 months fighting the woman's insurance who tried to foist me off with a $15k settlement for a 64x34 insulated, heated/AC building in good repair with a brand new metal roof. 3 months waiting for contractor, who only fit me in his schedule because we're buds. 2 months waiting on the rain to stop. Now it's fall.

Just want it done. I'll take whatever lights I get for now.

 

[sparky 1971]

That's my assessment as well. When I saw them on the ceiling, I had him go ahead and pick up a whole box of them for spares. When those run out, I'll probably put up fluorescent shop lights again. I give them 6 months, tops.

At this point I haven't had a garage/shop for 1 1/2+ years. My show car's been sitting outside the entire time. All my tools in storage. Couldn't even mow my own grass since my mower was stuck inside under the collapsed roof with all the doors boarded shut. 9 months fighting the woman's insurance who tried to foist me off with a $15k settlement for a 64x34 insulated, heated/AC building in good repair with a brand new metal roof. 3 months waiting for contractor, who only fit me in his schedule because we're buds. 2 months waiting on the rain to stop. Now it's fall.

Just want it done. I'll take whatever lights I get for now.

If the feeder for the panel turns out to be what it looks like, you have much bigger problems on your hands than the light fixtures.

 

[babyseal]

As a note; contractor's a bud, and he's pinched pennies till they squeal getting this done. Pretty sure he's not making much off of this at all. lot of delays waiting on materials unless we wanted to spend more getting something "right now", lot of stuff not exactly what he wanted to use...but either what we could afford, or what he could lay hands on. And the electrician, will never work for him again.

 

[babyseal]

Ok, lousy pics but they're off a little pocket camera.

If the feeder for the panel turns out to be what it looks like, you have much bigger problems on your hands than the light fixtures.

That's OK, I didn't need to sleep tonite anyway...

 

[sparky 1971]

The feeder is MHF and is supposed to be in conduit unless it's underground. If the stupid S.O.B. is willing to do that, there's no telling what else has been done wrong. I'm not going to tell you what to do but I would: 1) fire him, 2) contact the insurance company who's money he stole and explain to them what's going on, and depending on how that conversation goes, 3) get a lawyer.

 

[babyseal]

Too dark to get good pics. There's 2 conduits into the top of the meter box. Left is the main feed. Right is the one you see out of the box and through the wall. Then there's a bottom conduit into the ground, feeding the back garage.

 

[babyseal]

"The feeder is MHF and is supposed to be in conduit unless it's underground."

What does MHF mean, and in conduit from the top of the box to where it goes out the wall, and then down into the meter panel?

Does the main feed come from the outside meter into the back of breaker box?

 

[sparky 1971]

Too dark to get good pics. There's 2 conduits into the top of the meter box. Left is the main feed. Right is the one you see out of the box and through the wall. Then there's a bottom conduit into the ground, feeding the back garage.

No need to post any more pics. The electrician is too stupid to live. This does nothing but help prove my stance that a licence or "certification" doesn't mean a thing.

 

[sparky 1971]

"The feeder is MHF and is supposed to be in conduit unless it's underground."

What does MHF mean, and in conduit from the top of the box to where it goes out the wall, and then down into the meter panel?

Does the main feed come from the outside meter into the back of breaker box?

MHF stands for mobile home feeder. It's the wire being used to feed the panel. It can be buried directly underground with no conduit, but anywhere it isn't covered by dirt, it's supposed to be in conduit, that includes inside a wall.

It should come in the back of the panel, I don't see a reason it can't/couldn't.

 

[babyseal]

I'm assuming in conduit so you don't drive nails and such into it and eat 200v...

If I'm following the wiring, the main feed goes into the outside meter box via the roof feed conduit (top left conduit), then splits into feeding the main garage (right hand outside top conduit), then goes out of the bottom of the meter box into the conduit going underground to the back garage...and yes, it's in conduit into the top of the box. But this guy didn't do that job.

I've seen probably 75% of the actual wiring, and made sure all the 50a welder lines and 30a machine lines were correct. 110v wiring is correct. About half of the receptacles are stabbed, other half wrapped, and I plan on pulling them all once they're gone. He didn't run them separate and stake them down for the most part, running in a bundle mostly which isn't right but I can live with. Almost everything is on their own separate circuits as a specified.

 

[sparky 1971]

I'm assuming in conduit so you don't drive nails and such into it and eat 200v...

If I'm following the wiring, the main feed goes into the outside meter box via the roof feed conduit (top left conduit), then splits into feeding the main garage (right hand outside top conduit), then goes out of the bottom of the meter box into the conduit going underground to the back garage...and yes, it's in conduit into the top of the box. But this guy didn't do that job.

It's in conduit outside like it's supposed to be. The problem is between where it comes through the wall to the top of the panel there is no conduit. That's a big fat fail and it doesn't matter what the reasoning behind the conduit is for but if it were PVC it wouldn't do much to stop a nail, neither would EMT if the nail was fired from a nail gun.

I've seen probably 75% of the actual wiring, and made sure all the 50a welder lines and 30a machine lines were correct. 110v wiring is correct. About half of the receptacles are stabbed, other half wrapped, and I plan on pulling them all once they're gone. He didn't run them separate and stake them down for the most part, running in a bundle mostly which isn't right but I can live with. Almost everything is on their own separate circuits as a specified.

I wouldn't trust a damned thing he did based on the feeder alone. But, I'm not there and it's not my garage.

 

[babyseal]

The fix for the obvious is shutting down, pulling the feed wires back out, running conduit from where it's coming in through the wall, and into the top of the breaker box?

Because I don't have a single solitary issue with throwing a screaming fit and making him redo it correctly. Won't bother me a bit to make his life a little more difficult.

The rest is straight forward, other than not staking the wires out separately, it's pretty hard to screw up. I could have did that part, and did it a lot neater myself. I just don't touch breaker boxes. Basically, I'm having him do it because he's got a certification and insurance, and if it burns down I can point the finger at him to my own insurance company.

 

[sparky 1971]

The fix for the obvious is shutting down, pulling the feed wires back out, running conduit from where it's coming in through the wall, and into the top of the breaker

A 2" 90° elbow won't work because the sweep is too much to stay inside the wall. A LB would work but it can't be covered. I can't tell how high the conduit goes out the top of the meter main, but it appears that it goes pretty high. It could possibly be shortened outside and LB through the wall right in the back of the panel. The panel could move up if needed, it just can't be so high that the top breaker is more than 6'7" off the floor. Of course, you will then have a hole in the wall that will need patched where the wire currently comes through. He could also use the existing conduit as is and replace the wire with 4/0 SER cable.

Because I don't have a single solitary issue with throwing a screaming fit and making him redo it correctly. Won't bother me a bit to make his life a little more difficult.

Go for it.

The rest is straight forward, other than not staking the wires out separately, it's pretty hard to screw up. I could have did that part, and did it a lot neater myself. I just don't touch breaker boxes. Basically, I'm having him do it because he's got a certification and insurance, and if it burns down I can point the finger at him to my own insurance company.