New Home Build

[dave*99]

Read up on vented vs. non vented if you use NG. Non vented puts lots of moisture in the air

As for a 40 degree set point with any heater…… do your research. My NG unit heater won’t run that cold. Moisture will build up in the tubular heat exchanger.

My mini split is rated for low outdoor temperatures but won’t set indoor temperature below 60.

Many thermostats won’t set that low.

Electric heat is most likely to work at 40.

 

[Foreman05]

Thanks for the replies, the NG heater is vented so that is a plus. I'm not set on the 40 degree mark just setting it as low as possible in the winter for energy conservation when I am not other there.

I gave the excel doc my best shot, looks like the NG heater is cheaper. My gas prices here this month are $8.94 per 1000 CF and electricity is $.13 per kWh. There is a really good chance I messed up that equation though.

 

[dave*99]

I have a ceiling fan I run at low speed to blow the heat down. With a high ceiling, it helps a lot.

 

[Foreman05]

So I don't know much about mini splits, do you think a 24K unit would be sufficient to heat and cool almost 1200 sq ft? I would try to place it in the center of the longest wall in the L shaped garage to try and blow air to the whole shop. There is a significant jump in price from the 24K to the 36K mini splits.

I am leaning towards canceling the NG drop for the heater and go the mini split route as recommended.

 

[ericm]

I think it's going to depend on the insulation and air sealing. You can try to run a manual J and manual S here: http://loadcalc.net
Many mini splits have 62 degrees as the lowest normal heat setting but some have a freeze prevention setting which is in the 40s.

 

[Foreman05]

Looks like I might be ok, the garage is fully insulated w/ R13 & R30 w/ insulated doors. I might look into getting one with 2 zones, I assume that would help out.

 

[Sherk]

So I don't know much about mini splits, do you think a 24K unit would be sufficient to heat and cool almost 1200 sq ft? I would try to place it in the center of the longest wall in the L shaped garage to try and blow air to the whole shop. There is a significant jump in price from the 24K to the 36K mini splits.

I am leaning towards canceling the NG drop for the heater and go the mini split route as recommended.

I have a 24k unit heating an 864 sq ft (10ft walls) barn in SW MI. This barn has R10 insulation under the 4" slab, R30 in the walls and R50+ in the ceiling.

It had been sufficient for the past 2 years without issues, keeping the building at 46 (freeze protect mode) unless I'm out there on the weekend when it's 60. Heats from 46 to 60 in 30-45 min

 

[Foreman05]

That sounds perfect, thanks for the reply!

 

[My Old Tools]

Every electrical drop in my shop is a quad 20A 115v, a single 30A 220v, and a single 20A 3 phase. I shoot for every 6 feet. Most of my equipment apart from hand held is 220v or 3 phase.

 

[My Old Tools]

So I don't know much about mini splits, do you think a 24K unit would be sufficient to heat and cool almost 1200 sq ft? I would try to place it in the center of the longest wall in the L shaped garage to try and blow air to the whole shop. There is a significant jump in price from the 24K to the 36K mini splits.

I am leaning towards canceling the NG drop for the heater and go the mini split route as recommended.

Yes, most likely. My shop is 1200sf 22 feet tall. I use a 36k MrCool in Texas, but I think a 24k would handle it. Mine is single head on the center of the 40 foot wall. You likely need more heat than I do, but it keeps the shop above freezing, even when it went to -12 for 3 days.

 

[Foreman05]

Yes, most likely. My shop is 1200sf 22 feet tall. I use a 36k MrCool in Texas, but I think a 24k would handle it. Mine is single head on the center of the 40 foot wall. You likely need more heat than I do, but it keeps the shop above freezing, even when it went to -12 for 3 days.

That’s great to hear, 24k is the direction I will go with it then. I feel fairly confident 24k will be sufficient with yalls data.

 

[Foreman05]

Every electrical drop in my shop is a quad 20A 115v, a single 30A 220v, and a single 20A 3 phase. I shoot for every 6 feet. Most of my equipment apart from hand held is 220v or 3 phase.

Wow that’s a lot of power!! I am curious to see what the electrician recommends as a subpanel. Probably looking at 2, 14-50 plugs and another 240v drop for the mini split. Maybe I’ll just run all the outlets on the walls at 20A and the switched ceiling at 15A for the lights. Kind of daunting to get it all laid out.

 

[RegeSullivan]

The only two things I feel strongly about are the depth of the parking stalls and the subpanel.

If you ever intend to own a full sized SUV, Pickup or utility trailer 22' will have you wishing for at least 24'. While you might squeeze a truck in the spot getting around it will be tuff. 24" will let you squeeze around it. 26' will let you easily move around and drop the tail gate or open the hatch of an SUV and put stuff in and out of the vehicle. I curse my 22.5' garage daily!!! Even the side my wifes little Subbie Outback sits on is tight with set of shelves against the back wall.

The subpanel is just a "no brainer". You never know what your next hobby will be or what tool you might want. In a shop or garage your electrical need are probably more likely to change than just about any other part of the house. I would supply at least 60 amps to a large subpanel 24 of more spaces for breakers. 90 or 100 amp would be more future proof but unlike a larger panel going to 100 amp could be costly depending on how far you are from the main panel.

 

[My Old Tools]

Wow that’s a lot of power!! I am curious to see what the electrician recommends as a subpanel. Probably looking at 2, 14-50 plugs and another 240v drop for the mini split. Maybe I’ll just run all the outlets on the walls at 20A and the switched ceiling at 15A for the lights. Kind of daunting to get it all laid out.

If you are typically working alone, you don't need a lot of circuits, but having a lot of distribution is convenient.

 

[Smoker]

I believe my Hik-Vision video doorbell runs on WiFi. Is has a traditional transformer and chime.

As for 1000' of Cat6 for a whole house, well no.
I have 2 office/desk locations in the house (one for me and one for my wife) there are 4 drops at each desk.

2 drops at each POE camera (the spare is unterminated)
2 at each TV
2 at each Home theater receiver
I have 4 WiFi access points and 2 extra junction boxes with Cat6 in case the locations had to move for better signal. (They didn't)
Also wired motion detectors, door alarm switches, window switches on garage windows.

All Cat6 are marked with their termination location.

As for the wiring process, it goes like this. If you need 4 drops at one location, set up 4 boxes of wire. Grab 4 cables and pull to the destination. Repeat. It's common to see way more than 4 boxes in play in a big install.

This photo was taken after the big stack of 1000' rolls was removed. It adds up quick.

Why 2 drops at each spot? In case one cable breaks? If its for multiple devices seems like a waste of time and cable. Just put a network switch in.

 

[dcg9381]

Why 2 drops at each spot? In case one cable breaks? If its for multiple devices seems like a waste of time and cable. Just put a network switch in.

Probably. The suggestion was not to terminate it. Dual path is pretty standard in networking. It's surprisingly easy for some sub to nick or puncture a cable during construction.

Cameras on a "corner" - you may actually need two.

 

[dave*99]

Why 2 drops at each spot? In case one cable breaks? If its for multiple devices seems like a waste of time and cable. Just put a network switch in.

Yes a spare in case of cable damage. Second reason is if you want to add a camera at a location (looking in another direction) a POE switch up in the eaves may not be appropriate.

 

[Smoker]

Yes a spare in case of cable damage. Second reason is if you want to add a camera at a location (looking in another direction) a POE switch up in the eaves may not be appropriate.

Ah yeah that makes way more sense.

 

[Foreman05]

From painted stakes to forms removed in one week. Kind of hard to grasp the size of it right now but we are super pumped.

 

[Foreman05]

Concrete poured!

 

[Joemctag]

Unless I missed it, no one mentioned outlet height. Don’t put them low, like in your house. That’s so they’ll be behind furniture or at least they won’t stand out. Recommend minimum 4’-3” to bottom of box. Many here have said this: So you could have a 4x8 sheet of something, resting on dunnage, and still see outlets. This is correct for a garage or shop unless you’re not going to put anything against any walls: unlikely.

 

[Foreman05]

Thanks Joe, yes that is a must. Good call with the measurements, I always have stuff located on, near or leaning on the walls. Never seems like enough space for all the “stuff”.

 

[rwilly]

Hey everyone just wanted to make a quick post to see what I’m forgetting or just not thinking about.

I am starting the process of building a house with a builder. Made the easy decision to supersize my garage. It is going from a 3 car 30x22 to 36x22 and an extension on the third stall to extend 48 feet deep overall and 14 feet wide, L shaped overall. Total sq footage approx 1100 sq ft.

The garage will be insulated and finished with Sheetrock, that’s why I am trying to get it all figured out now.

Electrical
I’m thinking standard outlets spaced every 12 feet.
20 amp necessary?
Switched outlets on the ceiling for lights.
50 amp 240 outlet, I don’t have a welder yet but wouldn’t mind one down the road.
Sub panel in the garage necessary?

Lighting
Found the 10 pack of 8 foot led lights on Amazon for $180, seem to have great reviews. Probably need 14 of those lights. Just found the UFO lights from hyper lite that seem cool too. Ceiling height not determined yet, we’ll see how the lot grades out but should be 10-14 feet tall.

Plumbing
I’m want a deep sink in there for doing all the things I’d need it for without going into the house.

Floor
Looking at epoxy kits DIY style, professional install here would be more than I’d like to pay.
Probably add a floor drain.

Piping in natural gas for a Mr heater 50,000 btu ceiling mounted heater.

Anything you’d do differently or that I am forgetting?

Thanks!

I recently had one built…

Sub panel in garage
I plan to also put in WiFi.
I went 28’ deep to fit my Crew Cab Long Box.
20A outlets are a must where I live, I put one every 10’. They require all of them to be child proof and the lead outlet in the run needs to be GFI
I put 15A outlets in the ceiling to plug in lights, I have Barrina lights from Amazon and I really like them.
I have two 20a outlets in ceiling for drop down extension cords.
I wish I had installed an outlet closer to the man door.
I also have 1 exterior outlet at each gable end.
1 switched outlet in the eave in case I want to hang rope lights or Xmas lights.

I have 10’ walls, easier to heat, no wasted space.

I

 

[Foreman05]

I recently had one built…

Sub panel in garage
I plan to also put in WiFi.
I went 28’ deep to fit my Crew Cab Long Box.
20A outlets are a must where I live, I put one every 10’. They require all of them to be child proof and the lead outlet in the run needs to be GFI
I put 15A outlets in the ceiling to plug in lights, I have Barrina lights from Amazon and I really like them.
I have two 20a outlets in ceiling for drop down extension cords.
I wish I had installed an outlet closer to the man door.
I also have 1 exterior outlet at each gable end.
1 switched outlet in the eave in case I want to hang rope lights or Xmas lights.

I have 10’ walls, easier to heat, no wasted space.

I

How many lights did you end up installing and how big is your garage? This has been an area I keep coming back to trying to get it right. I just bought my Dad a set of lights like the barrina but different brand and he says they are the best thing ever, he tore out all of his old leds and put these up.

 

[75gmck25]

When planning for low voltage cable (ethernet, coax, etc.), consider a plan for how it could be pulled out and/or upgraded later on. It wasn't that long ago that Cat5 and RG58 were typical, but now we would use Cat 6a, RG6, fiber, etc. At some point you may want to add devices that only work well with a newer type of wiring, and it's nice if you have a plan for how to upgrade.

I don't have a good suggestion for how to do this, other than using raised flooring or high mounted cable trays, but it's worth consideration. Maybe just add some dedicated low voltage wiring conduit for future expansion.

 

[rwilly]

How many lights did you end up installing and how big is your garage? This has been an area I keep coming back to trying to get it right. I just bought my Dad a set of lights like the barrina but different brand and he says they are the best thing ever, he tore out all of his old leds and put these up.

My garage is 28’ x 64’.
I bought the 8’ Barrinas. They have a 4’ cord that pigtails them end to end so I ran 4 lights the length of the garage.
I ran 3 rows.
They are really bright, I have them wired where I can turn on either the 2 outer rows, or the 1 center row.

 

[Foreman05]

Do you think there would be enough working light if I ran two rows of 4 lights length way down the 36 side? I guess they’d be evenly spaced on the 24 foot wall at 8 and 16 feet.