New HVAC Installation Costs?

[MattRMagnum]

I'm looking for advice. We have 3 HVAC RUUD units. All of them are 20 years old. They are all split systems. The smaller one never gets used as it heats and cools an area above the garage. The 3 ton unit is for the basement, which only gets used occasionally. The 4 ton unit services the main part of the house and this is the one I am most concerned about. It works fine for the moment. The main unit is also natural gas fired. I'm worried that at 20 years old, the system is going to be cost prohibitive to fix, so I'm trying to understand how much something like this is going to cost to replace.

I would just keep using it, if I were you, and prioritize finding a technician/shop that understands the concept of replacing parts and doing service, and not just replacing units. Ime, there's two types of shops: those that actually fix things, and those that make their money off replacements. The latter are easier to find, and usually have the better advertising and graphics.
My old house had a commercial unit (gaspack heat pump) attached to it. I wanted to have service done on it, and I called 6 different shops. 5 came out and told me that the motor was working hard and needed replacing, and that I was better off replacing the whole unit, since the motor was expensive and the unit was 18 years old. The sixth actually did voltage tests on the motors and capacitors, and discovered that one of the capacitors had failed. He had one in his truck, and it was an extra $30 for him to replace that (on top of the service call fee). That gaspack unit was still running great when I sold the house 5 years later.

Unless there's something magical about your particular unit, the parts are just parts, and there's nothing special or unique about them. A shop that does repairs will either have it, or be able to get it quickly.

 

[olouttt]

My advice:
get quotes from 3 contractors

 

[Gila Monster]

I paid $8k for a 3.5 ton Trane Heat pump XR model around 2021 (post Covid). Variable air handler, single speed compressor, I think it's a 15 Seer. New electrical pullout, new condensation line. Established place, been around forever. Very happy with install. My guess is the equipment was around $5k, the labor was around $3k for a days work. Comes out to several hundred dollars an hour. Seems fair to me.

I see people getting these quotes for like $20k-$25k for similar level equipment and its just disgusting. You're talking like $18k in labor for 2 people to be at your house for 8 hours?

I know in some parts of the country, guys get like $5k to replace a water heater. Just had that done, took one person like 3 hours. Not rocket science, if my only option was $5k, could easily do it myself. Out the door for around $1100 for a Bradford gas water heater and they do good work.

 

[diesel_dan]

I'm sure it was way earlier in this thread... We had both units and their mates put in for $20K - and they are quieter and seer 14 (minimum for CA)....

 

[karoc]

I believe that some contractors just throw out number to see if it sticks. If homeowner’s say yes then it stuck. It’s a good time be contractor, regardless of what trade. Over last 3 yrs I been dealing with contractors trying to get fair price, it ain’t happening. I been doing lot of work myself, but I also had pay up on some of stages building small home. One guy came out give me price of 105.00 hr, which I ask why 5.00 He told me that’s his price, so moved to next contractor

 

[justinjoyal]

-Your location states "Southern Tennessee". If you're in Eastern Tennessee I can tell you one large contractor I would NOT hire to do the work. The advice of doing all the calculations is correct, it's not an easy/simple thing to do but should be done first. Simple replacement assumes the previous unit was sized correctly, it might not be. Lots of contractors just use a rule of thumb for sizing because they don't want to do the load calculations. Labor charges can be considerable, and well earned, if ducts need it.

I was thinking, was there ever a load calculation done ?

7+ ton of cooling ! The house is either huge or badly insulated or the systems are oversized !

 

[justler]

Relevant for this post and put out today:

 

[danski0224]

Relevant for this post and put out today:

I got less than 5 minutes into it, and he is stressing the importance of Manual J load calculations.

From some of the comments, there must be some interesting discussion on ductwork.

I'd bet much of it is the same stuff I've mentioned before... more than once.

I'll have to watch the whole thing. I have found most of his videos to be well done.

 

[danski0224]

The metal work at the furnace in the video is typical slap it in ****. He probably does not know how just much a **** metal job will impact airflow.

Yes, the 60k btu furnace in the townhome is oversized, but as of yet, no one that I am aware of makes a 20k btu furnace. Smallest I have seen is 40k btu, and not everyone stocks something in that size. The manufacturer may make 20 different furnace versions, but the supplier is not going to stock all of them, and in my experience, will not order something different, either. Putting in a 2 stage can help mitigate some of the issues, but then inefficiency is added. If a contractor can do the project with one size, then that's what they will do. That said, I am aware that there are oversizing limits with Manual S, which should have been caught if Manual J, D, S is required as part of the permit process.

I have done Manual J calculations on townhomes and have come up with similar heating loads of ~20k btu where a 100k btu furnace has been installed.

His chosen winter outdoor design temp of -15* F is way low for Illinois.

I enjoyed his commentary about HVAC in an attic, but he is mistaken that "we Midwesterners figured it out". The 2012 Energy Code put so many additional testing requirements on attic duct installations that it became cost prohibitive for the builders to keep doing that ****** installation practice and risk failing the duct leakage test due to ****** HVAC contractor installation practices.

Yes, he brought up pricing. And yes, when rebates are involved, the price will creep up. This is NOT limited to HVAC. The website shown in the video will leave you high and dry if there is an equipment issue that needs warranty stuff. The website isn't coming out to work on your stuff, and whether or not some of the upper tier brands will honor warranty claims for online purchases is another very murky issue. I really believe that if the manufacturer is allowing the stuff to be sold online, then they should be compelled to provide warranty parts for said equipment. If they will null and void the warranty for equipment purchased online, then shut down the online distributors. Seems like a juicy lawsuit to me.

In the end, it still comes down to doing a load calculation, understanding and entering the data correctly, and installing properly sized equipment and properly sized ductwork.

And as he pointed out, there is no "easy" solution for the load calculation part. The "professional" software such as Wrightsoft isn't terribly expensive all things considered (and anyone can buy it), but the typical person will not be able to buy it and use it effectively, quickly.