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New Low for SK

neophyte

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I don't have any statistics, nor did I post any. Look again, it clearly says "I would bet that less than 20%". That's coming from me and my job as a service tech going into peoples homes and seeing perfectly capable 20-30 somethings still living at mom and dads and not having a job at all.
Plenty of jobs, even manufacturing jobs, barely pay enough to get an apartment outside of a “crack/meth/fentanyl” neighborhood, let alone pay enough to buy a house, pay for a car, and insurance, or pay for the wear and tear on your body.
 
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BrandonV

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Below is a segment from my first post, which you may or may not have read.

When SK was either 100% or close to it American made, the prices were so high that nobody would buy it. Yes, it was hard to find but there were plenty of places that sold SK tools online which is what the majority of people want. Go back through the archives of Garage Journal and see how many posts there are with people bitching about SK being too expensive. I'm not interested in finding out, but I wonder if some of those people are the same as the people bitching about production moving to China.

I agree 100% with your statement. I try to buy American where possible but more often that not these days I'm not impressed with what I get with the premium I'm paying. We're talking QC issues I wouldn't have imagined years ago.
 

sparky 1971

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Plenty of jobs, even manufacturing jobs, barely pay enough to get an apartment outside of a “crack/meth/fentanyl” neighborhood, let alone pay enough to buy a house, pay for a car, and insurance, or pay for the wear and tear on your body.
Let me try to rephrase my original statement about American manufacturing in an attempt to help you understand the point I am trying to get across. They can not pay enough money to the workers to be able to compete with China. If manufacturing jobs in America pay what would be a livable wage in America, the product is going to cost enough that the majority of Americans aren't going to buy it due to the cost of said product. We won't be exporting it either, when the shipping cost's are figured in on top of the fact that another country is producing a better product for less money, foreign countries aren't going to be interested.
 

four.cycle

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Sparky1971 said:
They can not pay enough money to the workers to be able to compete with China.

And therein lies the crux of it.
American tool manufacturers were not able to compete with the flood of imported hand tools that started arriving on our west coast in the late 1970s from Taiwan, Hong Kong, and China (PRC).
Indestro, Duro-Chrome, Bonney, Utica, Fairmount, Herbrand, and a plethora of others didn't close their doors because the American consumer stopped buying hand tools.
They closed their doors because the American consumer wanted cheaper cheaper cheaper and cheaper. Still the same as ever - look at the activity on this website in the "Hot Deals" forum.

And your previous observations about GJ members here bitching about the prices of S-K (when S-K was still American made) are spot on.
I'd posit it's the same crew bitching about it not being made in the U.S.
 

JeepYJ

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Let me try to rephrase my original statement about American manufacturing in an attempt to help you understand the point I am trying to get across. They can not pay enough money to the workers to be able to compete with China. If manufacturing jobs in America pay what would be a livable wage in America, the product is going to cost enough that the majority of Americans aren't going to buy it due to the cost of said product. We won't be exporting it either, when the shipping cost's are figured in on top of the fact that another country is producing a better product for less money, foreign countries aren't going to be interested.
Knipex is made in a high cost country, Germany, and is expensive to purchase in the US, but it’s worth it.
Wright and Snap-On are both expensive and quite a few folks think they’re worth the cost. I don’t know what the workers are paid in those companies.
 

four.cycle

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just a note:
I have no clue what "Manufacturing jobs" pay here in this area.
We have the highest minimum wage in the country - it's up to about $17 an hour in a couple municipalities now.
Rent on a one-room studio starts at about $1200 a month here in Tacoma. (Higher in Seattle.)
From the comments on another website I haunt, Amazon is one of the worst companies in the world to work for, which is why they have such a mind-boggling turnover rate. That may vary in other areas, but Amazon warehouse employees here last maybe 6-9 months before they burn out and quit.
 

neophyte

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Maybe it’s “the cost of workers”, but there used to be a crapload of manufacturing in the USA, and plenty of people were able yo live comfortably on the pay from that manufacturing.
I suspect part of the issue, is that some of the manufacturers are run by people who have no clue how the manufacturing works, and who therefore cannot figure out how to streamline the manufacturing to keep costs reasonable and quality decent.
 

zendriver

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JeepYJ

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Maybe it’s “the cost of workers”, but there used to be a crapload of manufacturing in the USA, and plenty of people were able yo live comfortably on the pay from that manufacturing.
I suspect part of the issue, is that some of the manufacturers are run by people who have no clue how the manufacturing works, and who therefore cannot figure out how to streamline the manufacturing to keep costs reasonable and quality decent.
A few things are different between then and now. One is the cost of housing and transportation has far outpaced wages. The other is that many things took a larger percentage of one’s wages to buy, but people bought fewer things and had more of their wages available after paying for housing and transportation.
 

sparky 1971

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Knipex is made in a high cost country, Germany, and is expensive to purchase in the US, but it’s worth it.
Wright and Snap-On are both expensive and quite a few folks think they’re worth the cost. I don’t know what the workers are paid in those companies.
I agree about Knipex, I use some of the pliers.

I know nothing about Wright other than it's an American tool company. I think I've read on here that they are pushed toward industrial work and government contracts. If it's true, take the government money away and see what happens. As far as Snap On, their thing is to bring it to the consumer and finance the purchase. Yes, its a quality product, arguably the best, but take the Snap On man out of the picture and make Snap On only available online and in store at the same price point and see where they are in 5 years, and while your at it, see how higher the sales at Harbor Freight are compared to today. I've seen the advice given here so many times to buy used Snap On on eBay or someone posting about the deal they got on a Snap On ??? from ebay. Why ebay? Because they don't want to pay new Snap On prices. Why are Snap On prices so high? Several reasons, American manufacturing being one of them.
 

shanny19

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American tool manufacturers were not able to compete with the flood of imported hand tools that started arriving on our west coast in the late 1970s from Taiwan, Hong Kong, and China (PRC).
Indestro, Duro-Chrome, Bonney, Utica, Fairmount, Herbrand, and a plethora of others didn't close their doors because the American consumer stopped buying hand tools.
They closed their doors because the American consumer wanted cheaper cheaper cheaper and cheaper. Still the same as ever - look at the activity on this website in the "Hot Deals" forum.
That "golden age" or whatever of American tool manufacturing just wasn't sustainable.
I just restored another batch of axes, and one of them, a Plumb, was made in 1965, and the 1965 price translates to $72 in today's dollars.
Hipsters are paying $72 for an axe to hang on the wall, but nobody is paying $72 today to split their firewood.
That Plumb axe factory in St. Louis ceased to be an employing foundry in 1971 and became a "name only", in the hands of someone else.
A few decades before Craftsman or SK, but the end result exactly the same.
 
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robertparks

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S-k is not the only one doing this snap-on tools also has started to make some of their tools in Japan and rebranding other tools with their name knippex pliers for one I grew up when s-k tools were sold on a truck and I still have the first socket set and sae wrench set that I bought almost 45 years ago and I never had a problem with their tools also have a screwdriver set from 35 years ago
 

sparky 1971

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Maybe it’s “the cost of workers”, but there used to be a crapload of manufacturing in the USA, and plenty of people were able yo live comfortably on the pay from that manufacturing.
I suspect part of the issue, is that some of the manufacturers are run by people who have no clue how the manufacturing works, and who therefore cannot figure out how to streamline the manufacturing to keep costs reasonable and quality decent.
When American manufacturing was at it's peak, China was little more than a third world country. Ponder this... China can make a product and put it on a boat, send it to America, offload it onto a rail car or truck, and ship it across the country and it still costs less than it can be produced in the U.S.
 

JeepYJ

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I agree about Knipex, I use some of the pliers.

I know nothing about Wright other than it's an American tool company. I think I've read on here that they are pushed toward industrial work and government contracts. If it's true, take the government money away and see what happens. As far as Snap On, their thing is to bring it to the consumer and finance the purchase. Yes, its a quality product, arguably the best, but take the Snap On man out of the picture and make Snap On only available online and in store at the same price point and see where they are in 5 years, and while your at it, see how higher the sales at Harbor Freight are compared to today. I've seen the advice given here so many times to buy used Snap On on eBay or someone posting about the deal they got on a Snap On ??? from ebay. Why ebay? Because they don't want to pay new Snap On prices. Why are Snap On prices so high? Several reasons, American manufacturing being one of them.
Two US businesses that have figured out how to survive in today’s world and you want to take things away from them to see them fail? SBD also manufactures a few successful tool lines in the US. Channellock still makes reasonably priced tools here, although they aren’t even comparable to Knipex.
 

sparky 1971

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Two US businesses that have figured out how to survive in today’s world and you want to take things away from them to see them fail? SBD also manufactures a few successful tool lines in the US. Channellock still makes reasonably priced tools here, although they aren’t even comparable to Knipex.
Now you are arguing just for the point of arguing and that is just plain stupid. If you identify as a girl, you don't have to 100% act like one. I have a wife and don't need to go online to be accused of nonsense. Nowhere did I state I wanted to take anything away from either company, nor did I state I wanted them to fail. I simply pointed out an advantage each company has that allows them to compete and I hope you are smart enough to know that. Unfortunately, if that one advantage is taken away from each company, they won't be around long.

And...Channellock is junk and has been for around 20 years. They have workers, I don't know nor do I care about how much they pay so I am going to take a guess and assume they have started using cheaper material to produce their tools...all in an effort to compete with China. I have two pair of beat to hell and back 29 year old 420's that are leaps and bounds better than three pair of 420's, two pair of 430's, two pair of 440's, two pair of 460's, and a pair of 480's that are all less than 20 years old. Every single one of them has been replaced at my job by Cobras.
 

finn

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ACME Tools.

I've personally purchased Wright tools from an ACME brick and mortar store.

Does everyone in the US have a nearby ACME store? No. But they DO sell Wright Tools, (they did last time I looked, anyway) and they DO have brick and mortar stores in the US.
A ten hour round trip drive doesn’t qualify.
 
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neophyte

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A few things are different between then and now. One is the cost of housing and transportation has far outpaced wages. The other is that many things took a larger percentage of one’s wages to buy, but people bought fewer things and had more of their wages available after paying for housing and transportation.
Maybe, but clothing used to last a decade or mire, and was made to be adjustable for weight loss or gain.
Shoes and boots were mostly made of leather, and could last a decade as well.
Resoling those shoes and boots was aldo more affordable even calculating inflation.
Cars might not have lasted as well, but they also required less specialty tools to fix.
Some of those manufacturers that made those specialty tools are still around, and still manufacturing tools in the USA (Stride Imperial is a good example, as is Wilde)
There used to be plenty of cheap USA made tools. Maybe the tools weren’t great as far as quality, but that was the reason Snap-On, Mac, Proto, Williams, etc. existed.
USA made tools were routinely available, and quality USA made tools were routinely available at local specialty hardware stores.
I remember more than one local “industrial” hardware dealer having a display of all or most of the pliers made by a manufacturer, such as Channellock or Crescent, and then a rack of the different pliers behind the display the salesman would grab from when you made up your mind.
 

neophyte

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Now you are arguing just for the point of arguing and that is just plain stupid. If you identify as a girl, you don't have to 100% act like one. I have a wife and don't need to go online to be accused of nonsense. Nowhere did I state I wanted to take anything away from either company, nor did I state I wanted them to fail. I simply pointed out an advantage each company has that allows them to compete and I hope you are smart enough to know that. Unfortunately, if that one advantage is taken away from each company, they won't be around long.

And...Channellock is junk and has been for around 20 years. They have workers, I don't know nor do I care about how much they pay so I am going to take a guess and assume they have started using cheaper material to produce their tools...all in an effort to compete with China. I have two pair of beat to hell and back 29 year old 420's that are leaps and bounds better than three pair of 420's, two pair of 430's, two pair of 440's, two pair of 460's, and a pair of 480's that are all less than 20 years old. Every single one of them has been replaced at my job by Cobras.
Cobra pliers have the advantage of the design, which was patented.
Channellock has made two separate pliers to try to compete with the Cobra design.
The first still used the Channellock tongue and groove adjustment method, and wasn’t as liked as the toothed adjustment on the Knipex cobra.
I’m not sure what opinion is on the newer system.
 

AA/FC

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A ten hour round trip drive doesn’t qualify.
Not for you, of course not.... But it IS an option for many other people. I already addressed that in my original comment.

It's unfortunate that ACME doesn't have more retail stores around the county because they are legit! The location near me occupies roughly 35000 square feet of space (part showroom, part warehouse) and it's all name brand stuff inside.

Click
ACMETOOLS.jpg
 

2ndGearRubber

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I want to work and so does everyone I know.

I know these young people don't work because their parents tell me. It makes it pretty easy to schedule an appointment when all I have to know is when I show up, knock loud to make sure I wake the unemployed kid up. I've been in more than one house during arguments between patent and adult child about growing up, getting a job, and moving out.

As far as getting dirty, I'm referring to jobs that pay excellent wages but can't get any help. Construction companies are dying for workers but can't get anyone to show up. I have two friends that each own automotive shops, they can't get help either

That's parenting at fault FWIW.

The reason people "don't want to do dirty jobs" is a 50 year plus war against trades via the education system. Trades are for losers, is all I heard my educational career. We devalued the HS diploma until it is worthless, and fed into a system of higher education which charges people for a degree to do the same job their father did with a HS diploma. I work with my hands for a living. Society at large considers my work to be "low class". Who strives to do "low class" work?


My grandfather got a job with a HS diploma, in a bearing factory. He bought a house, married my grandmother, raised 3 children, retired at 65 with a pension and healthcare coverage for LIFE in what most would call a "Cadillac plan". They had two cars, and his wife stayed home to raise the children. He did serve in the Korean War, and had the ups and downs of life we all experience. Part of the reason people "don't want to work" is because the deals employers are offering keep getting shittier.




"Excellent pay" is also relative. Team leader for a contracting company nearby pays 20/hour no benefits. I'm sure they believe their pay is "excellent". Shops are paying 15/hour for lube techs. Same as walmart, except **** working conditions with no AC/poor heat, and a tool bill. "Excellent pay", versus the 8/hour they were making ten years ago.

Crazy we can't find a lube tech worth a ****, when we don't train them, and pay the same wages a stoned cashier makes.


...and..?

That silly old myth of Usa Japan making "Usa" hand tools. Check on wikipedia, they have no manufacturing base in Usa Japan. Just silliness.


 

zendriver

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Maybe it’s “the cost of workers”, but there used to be a crapload of manufacturing in the USA, and plenty of people were able yo live comfortably on the pay from that manufacturing.
I suspect part of the issue, is that some of the manufacturers are run by people who have no clue how the manufacturing works, and who therefore cannot figure out how to streamline the manufacturing to keep costs reasonable and quality decent.
It is "the cost of workers". it always is.

The old school New England garment and textile industries didn't pay well, but pulled up stakes anyway and moved to the US south, before eventually moving overseas, for good. It was all about labor costs.

Indiana had thousands of factories, but unless one had a good Union Job with high end companies(International Harvester, GM Dana, GE, etc. ) the pay/benefits was not really all that, often less than $5/hr for basic production work. Moving up could make more, but those jobs rarely (if ever) vacated and nepotism ruled.

They knew how manufacturing works. Move overseas and make more money.

SK (or S-K) is a perfect example.

A good American company that struggled continuously to make good products - that Americans were willing to pay a good price for. Like a "Corporate Ho" for 60 years, they have been passed from one conglomeration to the next and used for whatever the owners could get out of them.

Now they finally ended up owned by a Chinese company who mostly wanted the name and plans to get whatever they can get that's left.

Why would we be shocked?
 

M635_Guy

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^^No firsthand experience here, but by many accounts, what little product did come out of the Craftsman TX plant was very unimpressive
Honestly, I think that was significant mismanagement on several levels complicated by some other external factors.

I haven't seen the MiUSA Milwaukee hand tools yet - heard they were starting with pliers but not sure if they've hit the shelves. I'll be very interested to see how all that does.

For all the COO handwringing that goes on, it ignores the fact that the world moves and you have to move with it. Sticking your head in the sand in the face of foreign competition means you're likely going to fail, which is essentially what SK did. For all the **** SO gets (including from me), they haven't failed to keep moving, updating and evolving in enough ways to be healthy as a company.

SK seemed like a company that was pretty proud of their fax machine, and (in my experience and seeing a lot of similar online stories) had a mixed focus on quality control. That's a perfect recipe for what's happening now. I did get a set of the new, MiC sockets, as much to compare them to my MiUSA SK as anything, and they're nice - look nice, seem well-made and come with a very-nice rail. Whether the brand is needed in this crowded world is a whole different thing - I can't imagine they have any footprint in the world of box-store buyers and when you step up from there the competition is pretty fierce.

I wouldn't be surprised if they're gone in five years.
 

2ndGearRubber

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Honestly, I think that was significant mismanagement on several levels complicated by some other external factors.

I haven't seen the MiUSA Milwaukee hand tools yet - heard they were starting with pliers but not sure if they've hit the shelves. I'll be very interested to see how all that does.

For all the COO handwringing that goes on, it ignores the fact that the world moves and you have to move with it. Sticking your head in the sand in the face of foreign competition means you're likely going to fail, which is essentially what SK did. For all the **** SO gets (including from me), they haven't failed to keep moving, updating and evolving in enough ways to be healthy as a company.

SK seemed like a company that was pretty proud of their fax machine, and (in my experience and seeing a lot of similar online stories) had a mixed focus on quality control. That's a perfect recipe for what's happening now. I did get a set of the new, MiC sockets, as much to compare them to my MiUSA SK as anything, and they're nice - look nice, seem well-made and come with a very-nice rail. Whether the brand is needed in this crowded world is a whole different thing - I can't imagine they have any footprint in the world of box-store buyers and when you step up from there the competition is pretty fierce.

I wouldn't be surprised if they're gone in five years.

Snap on is actually a great example of a mainly US company producing goods. One needs to be at the top of the market and command premium pricing to justify 1st world labor costs.
 

sparky 1971

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That's parenting at fault FWIW.
Couldn't agree more. Parents should make the kids take out the trash and the Xbox should be in it.
The reason people "don't want to do dirty jobs" is a 50 year plus war against trades via the education system. Trades are for losers, is all I heard my educational career. We devalued the HS diploma until it is worthless, and fed into a system of higher education which charges people for a degree to do the same job their father did with a HS diploma. I work with my hands for a living. Society at large considers my work to be "low class". Who strives to do "low class" work?

Agreed, but it's kind of hard to make a living selling cell phones.
My grandfather got a job with a HS diploma, in a bearing factory. He bought a house, married my grandmother, raised 3 children, retired at 65 with a pension and healthcare coverage for LIFE in what most would call a "Cadillac plan". They had two cars, and his wife stayed home to raise the children. He did serve in the Korean War, and had the ups and downs of life we all experience. Part of the reason people "don't want to work" is because the deals employers are offering keep getting shittier.

That was in the old days. When the cheap stuff came from Taiwan and India while the trash came for China. Now, nobody can compete with China because of wages alone. Chin Zi Chang is willing to stand in line hoping to get picked to go to work in a factory making wrenches for the equivalent of $0.85 per day and he is willing to work extremely hard for that money in the hopes that he will get picked again the next day. Even if it was a decent, clean, and safe factory job in the states that people were lining up for to make minimum wage, it couldn't compete with China
"Excellent pay" is also relative. Team leader for a contracting company nearby pays 20/hour no benefits. I'm sure they believe their pay is "excellent". Shops are paying 15/hour for lube techs. Same as walmart, except **** working conditions with no AC/poor heat, and a tool bill. "Excellent pay", versus the 8/hour they were making ten years ago.

It's very relative, and is mostly dependent on location and cost of living. $20 per hour as a carpenters helper here for someone with no skills is damned good money, especially when you figure most of these people are still living at home. Nobody is going to make a career jump for $20, but it might be enough to get someone to consider a change in jobs. Hell, $20 here might be the same as $25 or 30 where you are. My electrical contractor buddy completely gave up. He tried to hire someone worth having, but stopped at $25 since someone with no skills isn't worth that, no matter what that person thinks. The first person he hired quit after the first day because he found out he couldn't play games on his phone all day. The next didn't show up or call in for three days after he got his first pay check and was upset when he got his second and final that the three days he missed weren't on it, and the straw that broke the camels back was the 17 year old that heard union journeyman were making about $39 per hour, so the pay was going to have to be closer to that number for him to even get out of bed. He called me, asked what I charge and when I told him he asked if he could sub me out as long as he gives me enough notice to make it work in my schedule. I now partner up with my friend on larger jobs for him.

I can only use me as an example because I only know the numbers for me. In 1994 I was hired as an electrician apprentice at $7.50 per hour. Adjusted for inflation, that $7.50 is now $15.42, so people with no skill set are turning down 30%-50% more than that because it's not enough. I made it, it was tough. I had to get a room mate to help with the costs. I ate a lot of grilled cheese and tomato soup. I had a 1989 Dodge Dakota, regular cab, 4 cyl. 5 speed with no options, including AC because that's what I could afford. Four years later, in 1998 I was making $23.50 as a journeyman. That $23.50 is now the same as $43.93. I admit to not knowing what the scale is now, but two years ago I turned down an offer of $45 per hour to shut my business down and go to work for a contractor so it's close. $43 per hour is really good in IA, and probably the majority of the country, but I can't say for sure about everywhere.

I
Crazy we can't find a lube tech worth a ****, when we don't train them, and pay the same wages a stoned cashier makes.

That's on your management. There are people out there that are willing to be a lube tech for a reasonable wage if for nothing else, a foot in the door and a pathway to being a complete tech.
 

JeepYJ

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Snap on is actually a great example of a mainly US company producing goods. One needs to be at the top of the market and command premium pricing to justify 1st world labor costs.
Snap On has nearly as many foreign factories as the 13 US factories listed on their website.
  • Santo Tome, Argentina
  • Minsk, Belarus
  • Santa Bárbara d'Oeste, Brazil
  • Kunshan & Xiaoshan, China
  • Bramley & Banbury, England
  • Bauge-en-Anjou, France
  • Sopron, Hungary
  • Correggio & Florence, Italy
  • Vila do Conde, Portugal
  • Irun, Placencia & Vitoria, Spain
  • Edsbyn, Kungsör & Lidköping, Sweden
Now, nobody can compete with China because of wages alone.
Not true. India and Vietnam and some of the other SE Asian countries are taking the place of China as low wages/low regulations cheap place for industry to go. China is also facing a population problem. It seems their control was very good and now they are outnumbered and an aging population compared to India.
 

VolvoRyan

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When SK was either 100% or close to it American made, the prices were so high that nobody would buy it. Yes, it was hard to find but there were plenty of places that sold SK tools online which is what the majority of people want. Go back through the archives of Garage Journal and see how many posts there are with people bitching about SK being too expensive. I'm not interested in finding out, but I wonder if some of those people are the same as the people bitching about production moving to China.

Yup. The SK groups on Facebook were/are full of these people. Only buy Steals and Deals, use coupon codes, warranty yard sale tools...... then they complain that SK basically went out of business.

-Ryan
 

Steve_P

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Couldn't agree more. Parents should make the kids take out the trash and the Xbox should be in it.

Agreed, but it's kind of hard to make a living selling cell phones.

That was in the old days. When the cheap stuff came from Taiwan and India while the trash came for China. Now, nobody can compete with China because of wages alone. Chin Zi Chang is willing to stand in line hoping to get picked to go to work in a factory making wrenches for the equivalent of $0.85 per day and he is willing to work extremely hard for that money in the hopes that he will get picked again the next day. Even if it was a decent, clean, and safe factory job in the states that people were lining up for to make minimum wage, it couldn't compete with China

Manufacturing labor has been more expensive in China than in Mexico for several years. This is why production is now moving to places like Vietnam and India. Last I saw it was >$6/hr in China. There's nothing new about this as already said and it will continue forever. We used to make clothes in the US, then it went to central America, then places like Bangladesh.

Ok, this is old, but
Manufacturing labor costs per hour: China, Vietnam, Mexico 2016-2020. In 2018, manufacturing labor costs in China were estimated to be 5.51 U.S. dollars per hour. This is compared to an estimated 4.45 U.S. dollars per hour in Mexico, and 2.73 U.S. dollars in Vietnam.

As far as kids today, yes, this is parenting. We blame the kids for being lazy, but their parents enable them. I'll spare everyone the "when I was a kid...." stories, but I'm in my 50s and have multiple friends my age with kids, and the vast majority of their kids have never worked a day in their life, don't mow the lawn, etc. Yet their parents buy them a $20k+ used car as soon as they turn 16, pay for the gas and insurance, pay for their college.... and then we all say they're lazy and don't want to do manual labor.

And finally back to SK, I bought a lot of sockets, etc, by them 10-15 years ago- they were available lots of places online, and even many individual wrenches and sockets were easy to find in stock. The prices were obviously considerably higher than imports like Sunex or Gearwrench, but still comparable with other US brands like Proto, and ~30% of Snap On. In the last few years before their "end", SK prices got insane.
 

sparky 1971

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Snap On has nearly as many foreign factories as the 13

Not true. India and Vietnam and some of the other SE Asian countries are taking the place of China as low wages/low regulations cheap place for industry to go. China is also facing a population problem. It seems their control was very good and now they are outnumbered and an aging population compared to India.

Manufacturing labor has been more expensive in China than in Mexico for several years.


You both tie for the win while missing the point completely which is that American manufacturing will never be able to compete with China. Or Mexico. Or Taiwan. Or Poland for that matter.
 

Steve_P

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just a note:
I have no clue what "Manufacturing jobs" pay here in this area.
We have the highest minimum wage in the country - it's up to about $17 an hour in a couple municipalities now.
Rent on a one-room studio starts at about $1200 a month here in Tacoma. (Higher in Seattle.)
From the comments on another website I haunt, Amazon is one of the worst companies in the world to work for, which is why they have such a mind-boggling turnover rate. That may vary in other areas, but Amazon warehouse employees here last maybe 6-9 months before they burn out and quit.

Last I heard Amazon had an overall 150% turnover per year at their warehouses, and some locations is supposedly as high as 300% per year.
 

Steve_P

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You both tie for the win while missing the point completely which is that American manufacturing will never be able to compete with China. Or Mexico. Or Taiwan. Or Poland for that matter.

Understood. But you said
Now, nobody can compete with China because of wages alone. Chin Zi Chang is willing to stand in line hoping to get picked to go to work in a factory making wrenches for the equivalent of $0.85 per day and he is willing to work extremely hard for that money in the hopes that he will get picked again the next day.

I was only providing real numbers to show that manufacturing in China is not at poverty wages anymore. Yes, nobody in the US can compete with their labor rate, which I guess is what you meant by "nobody".
 

Andres26tnt

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Yes it was. Just like when Craftsman said they were gonna make tools in Ft. Worth TX.
I think people should give some credit to Stanley because at least they spent the money, hired the people, and built the factory. Sure they eff up on the logistics, quality, and distribution part, but they did try. unlike Great Star, who just promised and well hasn't delivered anything or even spend the money to outsource the USA-made products. heck, they are breaking the law by labeling USA-made and providing China-made products inside.
 
OP
B

BrandonV

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You both tie for the win while missing the point completely which is that American manufacturing will never be able to compete with China. Or Mexico. Or Taiwan. Or Poland for that matter.

Surprisingly for the quality of labor output in Mexico wages are almost on par with the United States.

I was talking to someone who does manufacturing down there and if you're outputting high quality goods in Mexico the cost of labor is close to what you'd pay someone in the United States. A lot of companies are now moving from Mexico to Taiwan and China for those reasons.

Urrea tools are on par or better than Proto and made in Mexico (for now).
 

vssjim

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Surprisingly for the quality of labor output in Mexico wages are almost on par with the United States.

I was talking to someone who does manufacturing down there and if you're outputting high quality goods in Mexico the cost of labor is close to what you'd pay someone in the United States. A lot of companies are now moving from Mexico to Taiwan and China for those reasons.

Urrea tools are on par or better than Proto and made in Mexico (for now).
Urrea like a lot of companies also have asia imported cheap stuff they sell too
 
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