New Member, Noob Stuck on floor prep!

[DigitalDiver]

Hi, been lurking for months, love this forum and decided to join so i am kinda new here.

Decided to start my Epoxy project this week.
Scope:
383 Sq. Ft. total, including a "lip" about 24" deep
attached garage, slab about 15 yrs old. pretty good condition. no cracks! some light oil stains
rethinking Epoxy products, was going to use SW Tile clad @ 2 coats topped with Rexthane but the only pics i could find of 2 coats of Tile clad looked poor, thinking of maybe Tile clad for base, Armorseal 1000 for top and rexthane
Going for dark grey, with medium sprinkle and want glow in the dark chips- but so many choices. norklad, devoe, or epoxy-coatings etc. but buying local and no shipping seems appealing. time for another post.


Stuck on floor prep:
i bought muratic acid and originally was going to etch, but after reading many posts and replies from the vendors/pros - I decided to rent the tool from HD and use the Diamabrush rather then acid etch.

I started last night, got an hour or so into it before knocking off for the night. I did the perimeter. Put in another 4 hours today before i had to return the tool. the top half of garage went by okay, but i noticed as the hours drew on the sections were taking longer. the second half of garage took forever and didnt render the same results.

I noticed the blade was gummed up bad with compressed concrete dust during cleanup. I didn't realize anything was wrong since there was so much dust even in the "slow" areas, seemed to be working albeit slowly. As the progressed slowed, and given all the dust, i did spray the floor and tried to wet grind and see if that helped any. it didnt really help progess and just made a sludgy mess instead of dust.

After coming home from returning rental i began vacuuming the concrete dust up, the bottom half of the garage did not render the same surface as the top half. there is still a slight sheen and its not rough.

How to proceed?

Is it normal to have the blade gum up and are you supposed to wire brush it or hose it off as needed? I am trying to figure out if I had an operator issue or a bad blade issue. do i have recourse with HD regarding a blade that is end of life?

I purchsed the Behr acid and cleaner product to wash down the garage after grinding to make sure i got all the white stuff up and the dust.

At this point, I could use that product or actual acid to finish and not bother with HD.

Need suggestions on how to proceed?

I wished I had read ArmorPoxy's post sooner (another post here:"http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=304354&highlight=concrete+dust+cleanup&page=2" about checking for the blade condition. you were spot on.

i will try to post a better pic, this was taken at night

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-Bill
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[rburke65]

Hello and welcome from Ohio! I'm sure others will chime in with help. This is why I have not done anything with my newly built shops concrete floor other than the curing compound when placed. Seems to me there is always a problem and always issues with some damn thing. And to add insult ti injury it's not an inexpensive product. Good luck.

 

[puredrive07]

I also rented the HD machine with the Diamond Brush and it worked great for about half the job with brand new blades, but it did start to gunk up (you have to stop and clean it off once in a while) and be less effective, but I was still able to get the majority of the old paint off the floor with the machine. I then bough a 4" cement grinding blade and finished off all the tight places and areas that had some paint on the floor.

When you wash the floor, make sure to get a foam squeegee head; it really helps pull all the dust off the floor while washing (helps dry quicker too).

Here's my project: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=306374

I used ArmorPoxy ArmorClad Epoxy for my floors and couldn't be happier that I did end up with their product instead of some of the lesser off the shelf products.

 

[Armorpoxy]

Thanks for the comments guys. We carry the Diamabrush, and in our opinion it's 'ok' but it has it's limitations. Some people love them, others have had major issues with results.

We also are a bit spoiled since our Pre-Crete Installation Division uses large, professional grinders so we know what a real grinder can do vs the Diamabrush which really does have some limitations and is much more dependent on blade condition. Also a Diamabrush has very little downward weight vs a traditional grinder.

A regular grinder has thick diamond pads maybe 1/2" thick that take a lot to wear down. There is a lot of banter on the Forum about the Diamabrush but renting a real diamond grinder from a tool rental place will always be a better option in our opinion, and prevent uneven results. As with anything, it's a 'get what you pay for' situation.

 

[DigitalDiver]

LOL! rburke I tell me wife the same thing every time with every project. I expect 3 trips back top home depot for parts, but its the **** along the way you find out you have to do once you get into a project, and that gets me to my saying "it's always something".

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

A little weight on the machine and more time would have helped.
The Diamabrush can slow down as the concrete gets tighter.

We see big swings in the integrity of concrete from front to back, side to side.
Always a little tougher in the middle.

If you have a tighter smoother floor (power-troweled) consider the single head EDCO machine. It is a digger and you can put weight on top as needed to get the thing cutting.
Most of the THD rentals have them, Sunbelt too.

 

[DigitalDiver]

I also rented the HD machine with the Diamond Brush and it worked great for about half the job with brand new blades, but it did start to gunk up (you have to stop and clean it off once in a while) and be less effective, but I was still able to get the majority of the old paint off the floor with the machine. I then bough a 4" cement grinding blade and finished off all the tight places and areas that had some paint on the floor.

When you wash the floor, make sure to get a foam squeegee head; it really helps pull all the dust off the floor while washing (helps dry quicker too).

Here's my project: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=306374

I used ArmorPoxy ArmorClad Epoxy for my floors and couldn't be happier that I did end up with their product instead of some of the lesser off the shelf products.

Wow great project PureDrive!!!! Thanks for sharing, your floor is great and you said that's without top coat! great job on the broadcast of the flakes, you didn't get the "streaks" I see some people get when throwing the flakes like feeding a chicken.

So, my floor didn't have any paint or topping or coating at all, I guess the "cap" is its own coating of sorts. I still think they rented me an end of life brush, 6 hours of grinding for 383 sq ft seems off, and its not done. I noticed your rental has a port for the shop vac, mine didn't. I asked the lady about it and she said the machine with the shop vac port isn't the one that uses the diamabrush. Also, I asked about a shroud and they didn't have one either. I am frustrated to spend money, and then also time, and I still have to keep with floor prep! I could have rented a true grinder with single head machine from Sunbelt Rental for $95 /day!

If HD tells me tough luck, ill be acid washing the rest of the cap off. I did purchase the squeegee as you mentioned.

-Bill

 

[DigitalDiver]

@ Legacy - Thanks for your reply. I see in hind sight that more weight would have helped. I noticed the spring blades were almost vertical and looked more like ground knife edges than the little bit of diamond material left on them. Also, if I knew about these blades needing some love during use, I could have used my wire brush attachment for my drill to touch them up during the rental. I don't have enough experience to know if the density was also an issue with this section, but I posted pics showing a paint drip still untouched by this big machine where in other sections when fresh it exposed some aggregate.

Hey, I don't want to over think this, but since I used a mechanical process somewhat successfully on the first 2/3 rds - will the last third show issues though on the final product if its etched? as long as it has a proper profile, will it show anything weird through a 10 or 15 mil product with medium sprinkle?

 

[benwah]

Hey Digital,

If you decide to acid etch, be sure to neutralize the Hydrochloric acid with baking soda mixed into your water for at least the first go around.. Don't just rinse with unaltered tap water. It's a common mistake.

While acid etching, pre-wet the garage floor, apply acid/water mixture, scrub, neutralize, scrub, rinse, rinse, rinse. Never let the acid-water dry onto your concrete. I suggest keeping a door or window open. Once the baking-soda-water stops bubbling while rinsing you have neutralized the floors. Pay special attention to the perimeter, joints, and corners.

Depending on your weather conditions I'd suggest letting your floor dry out 2-5 days before applying coatings. Air flow helps. Warmer dryer environments take less time, cooler humid environments take longer.

 

[DigitalDiver]

So, I called HD and spoke to tool rental Mgr- explained to him the blade did not perform as I expected and told him my story. He offered to rent me the tool again for half price, but consider I spent $134 already plus add the half price rental, I don't feel like spending $200 for floor prep with HD when it should have been able to complete it within a few hours. It's one of those learning experiences to be sure, but I feel like they should tell their customers that you need to clean the blade every 100sq ft or so in order to allow the blade to work properly which they didnt. And I feel he should have done the customer service thing and give me the 2 or 3 hours back on my clock I spent using a non-performing blade. Trust me, I would have gladly stopped and cleaned it to keep the work flowing. he says he NEVER has complaints on these rentals. I cant know what I don't know. I could have rented an Edco electrix single head from Sunbelt for $71 for 4 hours, I am fairly sure we would be talking about epoxy coating options.


@Benwah - thanks very much for sharing !
So, for the last 3rd of my floor I will etch it, and incorporate your advice! Been years since I acid etched a floor so you forget little things like fill water first, then acid
I live in Houston and its been in the mid 90's all week and lower humidity for a change. perfect for drying out is a dry heat.

what about the Sills? they look like they have a sealer on it too, I don't want to grind them or corners. Most all the wall space will be concealed so I planned on acid washing these just allow adhesion. is this good enough?