New mig welder or stick weld it?

[LopezBart]

Personally though I think welding it with a stick is hacky.

It all depends on one's equipment and skills.

 

[Jswain]

Personally though I think welding it with a stick is hacky. I guess it would work but a TIG or MIG would be much better IMO.

I would agree, only if one is not proficient @ stick welding. If you are then absolutely not hacky & maybe even better for dirty metal

It all depends on one's equipment and skills.

x10

 

[steel 35]

Some may be better with pop rivet's then a welder!
And you may be in the other lane.

 

[liliysdad]

I would agree, only if one is not proficient @ stick welding. If you are then absolutely not hacky & maybe even better for dirty metal

Find me one legitimate race shop, chassis builder, or fab shop using stick welders for any sort of work, frame or otherwise.

 

[Jswain]

Find me one legitimate race shop, chassis builder, or fab shop using stick welders for any sort of work, frame or otherwise.

Lmao, come to Alberta and I'll show you 1000. Canadian oilfield is built w/ stick welders & have no problem testing up to(or perhaps more than) 15,000psi. It's not unusual to see 10 welding trucks a day or more driving around with large engine powered stick welders in the back

 

[rsanter]

If the issue is that your machine was not welding decent u till the material got up to tempature, there there are a couple things I would be looking at.
First, are you using an extension cord to power the welded?
Many welders don’t like extension cords when on their higher settings. Or you may bet a bunch bigger gauge extension cord.
How about preheating? Perhaps if you preheat the area to be welded before welding this could improve your results?
What is the amperage of your welder and what is the thickness range it was designed for?

 

[liliysdad]

Lmao, come to Alberta and I'll show you 1000. Canadian oilfield is built w/ stick welders & have no problem testing up to(or perhaps more than) 15,000psi. It's not unusual to see 10 welding trucks a day or more driving around with large engine powered stick welders in the back

I grew up and still live deep in oil patch country…building pumps, frac units, and pressure vessels or chasing a pipeline has absolutely nothing to do with automotive fab work.

 

[Jswain]

I grew up and still live deep in oil patch country…building pumps, frac units, and pressure vessels or chasing a pipeline has absolutely nothing to do with automotive fab work.

You said any sort of work, frame or otherwise.

If you had said automotive fab work, then I would agree pretty rare. But the stick welder doesn't give a **** if it's 1/8" steel on a frame, or a pressure vessel. So like I said, If you are proficient w/ stick send it.

 

[liliysdad]

I said “chassis shop, race shop, or fab shop….” I assumed it to have been fairly easily inferred given the topic that automotive work was the focus.

 

[Jswain]

I said “chassis shop, race shop, or fab shop….” I assumed it to have been fairly easily inferred given the topic that automotive work was the focus.

Ok thanks for the clarification, but OP is looking to DIY, so I don't really care what race shops use for tools.

One nice thing about a stick weld is that if it looks good it probably is. You could weld all day with a MIG making it look good and have next to no strength.

Either way OP is going to need some practise, whether it be stick or mig, difference is he's already geared up w/ a 200a stick welder.

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

I would agree, only if one is not proficient @ stick welding. If you are then absolutely not hacky & maybe even better for dirty metal

Still hacky IMO. It's just something that is not done in automotive circles. I can promise you OEM's didn't stick weld anything. At least not in the last 70 years. And the metal would only be dirty if it wasn't cleaned. Not hard to do. And even if you couldn't clean the backside, a MIG will weld "dirty" metal better than anything else IMO. Or use a torch and heat clean the seam. Hell I'd rather see a guy use a gas torch to weld something like that. Nothing wrong with that either.

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

And you guys are recommending this guy stick weld and he has NEVER stick welded before. Sheesh! Armchair experts.

Hell of a lot harder to properly stick weld than it is to MIG something. Inclusions would be a real issue for a noob stick welding.

 

[liliysdad]

And you guys are recommending this guy stick weld and he has NEVER stick welded before. Sheesh! Armchair experts.

Hell of a lot harder to properly stick weld than it is to MIG something. Inclusions would be a real issue for a noob stick welding.

It definitely makes it easy to tell who’s actually burnt rod and wire, and who’s just seen it done on YouTube.

 

[jsaw]

I rather stick weld than wire weld, so it's any easy choice for me. Stick is so simple, can be forgiving in non optimal environments, and more portable.

I burn mostly 6011 but 7018 would probably be better on a frame. Someone more knowledgeable can probably give more reason for a recommendation.

100% agree

 

[Jswain]

And you guys are recommending this guy stick weld and he has NEVER stick welded before. Sheesh! Armchair experts.

Hell of a lot harder to properly stick weld than it is to MIG something. Inclusions would be a real issue for a noob stick welding.

To be fair I recommended fluxcore wire in his current MIG welder, and stated my opinion that proper stick welding wouldn't be hacky.

But of course this is GJ, OP's rusty old jeep shall be welded to race shop standards with his new MIG welder.

OP never stated if he's taking the body off the frame, I just assumed not, and if so it will be pretty damn hard to get the metal clean.

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

OP never stated if he's taking the body off the frame, I just assumed not, and if so it will be pretty damn hard to get the metal clean.

Just depends what he's doing and where it's located. Old Jeeps like CJ-5's and CJ-7's it's pretty easy to access 90% of the frame. I'm assuming OP would be doing rust repairs though IDK. It would behoove him to make access for the area to be repaired. And a spot media blaster would make quick work of cleaning the area even with restricted access.

 

[Jswain]

Just depends what he's doing and where it's located. Old Jeeps like CJ-5's and CJ-7's it's pretty easy to access 90% of the frame. I'm assuming OP would be doing rust repairs though IDK. It would behoove him to make access for the area to be repaired. And a spot media blaster would make quick work of cleaning the area even with restricted access.

I figured stick might even be better due to the relatively rusty surface. I cleaned up as best as I could but still.

Ok well he was asking about thicker, dirtier, rustier metals, so I took that as he's not sandblasting prior to welding.

There's definitely nothing "quick" about a spot media blaster, and unless you have a huge open shop or somewhere outdoors to do it I wouldn't be doing that **** inside you'll be cleaning media out of everywhere for years BTDT

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

The OP's welder unless it is faulty would be enough to do 10-11 gauge material, provided proper preparation. V the seam to be welded, make multiple passes. If the OP has access to a O/A torch then preheat the metal, get it dull red, then quickly switch over to the MIG. Weave a figure eight side to side (might not even be neccesary but it helps get the heat in there) starting at the top and working down. If the weld is long enough for the metal to cool some with the preheat, stop heat the remaining area and get back on it. Use .030 wire at a minimum, or .035 if the welder has the capability (doubtful IDK). WIth preheat and the right technique of weaving that welder should be able to do it in one pass.

Hopefully he has gas, as personally I hate flux core wire. And it should go without saying that if there is any doubt about capabilities of the machine or the man, then practice with some sample pieces to get the settings and technique down. And like several mentioned above, make sure your cord is capable of handling the voltage so you don't get massive voltage drop and lose power.

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

Ok well he was asking about thicker, dirtier, rustier metals, so I took that as he's not sandblasting prior to welding.

There's definitely nothing "quick" about a spot media blaster, and unless you have a huge open shop or somewhere outdoors to do it I wouldn't be doing that **** inside you'll be cleaning media out of everywhere for years BTDT

Sigh......this is what I'm talking about. Not a full on media blasting setup. A spot blaster. Works very well for small areas. When using the special bag and nozzle it catches the media. Almost no leakeage. And even if just using the small blaster itself it's not very messy and no you won't be cleaning it out for years. That's just silly. The Porsche's and other cars I restore now get properly blasted and I have them cleaned out in a few hours. This is not that. FOr cars that I don't media blast but strip the exterior and jambs I use this a lot as there are places where you can't get the stripping tools I'm using in there and trying to wire wheel it doesn't work either. This makes quick work of it. I have used both in the shop as well. Just a little bit of cleanup not bad at all.

Speed Blaster & "Hot Spot" Spot Blaster Kit

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[Jswain]

Sigh......this is what I'm talking about. Not a full on media blasting setup. A spot blaster. Works very well for small areas. When using the special bag and nozzle it catches the media. Almost no leakeage. And even if just using the small blaster itself it's not very messy and no you won't be cleaning it out for years. That's just silly. The Porsche's and other cars I restore now get properly blasted and I have them cleaned out in a few hours. This is not that.

Speed Blaster & "Hot Spot" Spot Blaster Kit

Best Buy! Includes #8001-50 Speed Blaster and #8001-53 "Hot Spot" Spot Blaster Attachment. Speed Blaster - For small abrasive or soda blasting jobs, fast and easy! Simply remove fill cap and add Soda Master™ Media for soda blasting small areas on vehicle or small parts. For abrasive blasting...

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Yep and as soon as the gun comes off the edge you shoot media out @90 psi across the shop, have had one, also have a suction gun I rigged with a 2" vacuum elbow to do the same job but better, a blasting cabinet, a pressure pot. Media blasting is meant to be done outside or in a contained room. I'm sure in utopia it's easy to keep it all contained in hard to reach areas(corners/edges)

 

[Jswain]

And definitely don't run your beads downhill if you're worried about lack of fusion...

 

[toolenthusiast]

If the OP is welding on something really late model then yes possibly he might run into HSLA steel on the frame. But AFAIK, Jeep Wrangler have never used HSLA in the frame rails, even to this day. Only Ford is using it currently IIRC.

The Colorado/Canyon frame is HSLA, unfortunately And it’s too narrow to fit almost any tool inside if you want to cold straighten it

 

[drmarkr]

That's exactly what I did. I gave a friend my Century 120V MIG and bought a Primeweld 180 220V MIG. This will enable you to do 1/4" material with MIG and 0.035 wire or better yet dual shield which is the absolute best for thicker material.

That stated you MUST explore stick. Stick with your TIG will work fine except for 6010 electrodes and 6011 is just about the same thing as 6010. For most stick welding I use 7014 or 7018. The advantage of the 7014 is that your storage conditions do not need to be as stringent as they must for 7018. You can't beat stick when you really, really want something to STICK.

You didn't point out that you can probably get a decent price for the 120 machine and the Primeweld 180 is a smoking deal at $550. I sold our Syncrowave 180 for $300 more than the Primeweld 225x cost me, sold the older Lincoln 180 for $300 more than the Primeweld 180 that it replaced, and then bought the Titanium 125v fluxcore ($150 on sale) for something light to carry in the race trailer. You simply cannot beat the customer service of Primeweld....and both machines are working great.

 

[Jbmotorsports]

Still hacky IMO. It's just something that is not done in automotive circles.

Honestly, this is kind of correct and likely the reason I've never learned how to stick weld. I worked in custom fab shops for a decade at least before I went to traditional wrench turning and I've NEVER seen anyone, in all the circles of people I know, use a stick welder. That doesn't mean it's incorrect or insufficient of course. I would say maybe inefficient and USUALLY doesn't look as good imo unless very skilled.

I kind of just wanted to learn and this seemed like i good time to do so. I'm having a problem though when trying to practice. EDIT: removed text because I "fixed" the issue though I don't know what changed, maybe messing with the knobs when using the tig fixed the issue. Kids must've been in here turning knobs and pushing buttons lol.

 

[Jbmotorsports]

You didn't point out that you can probably get a decent price for the 120 machine and the Primeweld 180 is a smoking deal at $550.

I did mention the price but yeah you're absolutely correct and honestly what I may do. Looks like I could get around 500 range for the Miller and having the primeweld mig would match my tig lmao. It comes with a spool gun, which I'll likely never use but hey it has one

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

The Colorado/Canyon frame is HSLA, unfortunately And it’s too narrow to fit almost any tool inside if you want to cold straighten it

Good to know. I got out of collision permanently back in 2018 so I'm not really current on what is HSLA now and what isn't. I do know that pulling an HSLA frame is an exercise in futility as it is so strong and takes a set or work hardens, so that it's really impossible to straighten. Stuff is quickly becoming designed to not be repaired. Unibodies that had a lot of HSLA like late model Jeep Cherokee's are the same way. Anything more than a slight tweak and they don't want to move or the area behind the damage moves. Glad I'm not doing collision anymore.

 

[finn]

You use stick welding to repair snowplow brackets on your plow truck in February, in the driveway, to add a shop made hitch to you dump truck to haul your 24k lb equipment trailer, to weld together the well pipe casing when you’re drilling a new water well, and to fix your log skidder.

Simple repairs on a Jeep frame are best handled by a mig welder in the shop. And, yes, a common Jeep frame is thin enough to weld with a good 110v mig welder and get penetration..

 

[Jbmotorsports]

Yeahhhh.... It's gonna take way more practice than I anticipated to be proficient enough where I feel confident to do frame repair with this. Gonna just run the Mig but now I'm set should I ever need or want to go further with stick. So my welder ran the 6010 and lemme say that the description of violent is apt. If I were being honest it was kinda scary violent lol, never experienced anything like that with welding before, even using the 6013 and 7018. I'm pampered ok, I want my nice little hum or sizzle

 

[Jswain]

Yeahhhh.... It's gonna take way more practice than I anticipated to be proficient enough where I feel confident to do frame repair with this. Gonna just run the Mig but now I'm set should I ever need or want to go further with stick. So my welder ran the 6010 and lemme say that the description of violent is apt. If I were being honest it was kinda scary violent lol, never experienced anything like that with welding before, even using the 6013 and 7018. I'm pampered ok, I want my nice little hum or sizzle

Try some fluxcore wire in your current MIG welder. It will cost basically nothing for a 2lb spool, shut off the gas and reverse the polarity inside the machine from what you use for MIG.

It's nice to have in your back pocket if you need to weld something outside or somewhere portable, especially if you have a 120v unit.

 

[tominboise]

Oh harbor freight has rods so I don't need to wait for delivery. Looks like they stock 6011, 6013 and 7018 in a multitude of diameters so maybe just get all of them lol?

And I'll research about 6010 with my welder..... ok I'm seeing words like "dig" and "violent" to describe 6010. Looks like I didn't do enough initial research lol. Guys have used 6010 with it but maybe I'll put that aside as 7018 is reported to work well.

WIth regards to the 7018, once the package is opened, it is usually stored in a rod oven, as the flux can absorbs water and makes it difficult to weld. 7014 is a rod that doesn't need to be stored in an oven.

I have the Primeweld 225X as well and have welded quite a bit with the stick option. I suggest getting some pieces of scrap and running a lot of beads for practice. Sometimes I'll get a piece of angle iron a few inches long and just run beads, working to fill up the angle. Then you can saw it and check your chipping ability looking for inclusions.

 

[toolenthusiast]

Stuff is quickly becoming designed to not be repaired.

I would go one step further and say that we are already at a point where almost every wrecked car is actually a total loss. The reason that so many cars still get fixed is that people 1) don’t read service information 2) don’t measure every car 3) don’t measure the entire structure, front to back 4) don’t know/understand/care how cars are built now, especially with regard to alloys and tailored blanks.

To prove your point about anti-repair design: Tesla claims that they are going to make their unibodies out of essentially one giant casting, which they’re calling a “gigacasting”. As you know, automotive castings are not repairable and indeed cannot be accurately inspected without specialized lab equipment.

I truly still love the industry but, honestly, congrats for getting out

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

I truly still love the industry but, honestly, congrats for getting out

Not out but working on old stuff which is much more enjoyable for me. I went back and forth during my career working collsion then restoration then back to collision. Now that I'm doing restoration again I hope to never have to do late model collision again. Soul sucking.