New Pole Barn - Feeder Plan

[Glenn In Michigan]

First post on this forum. Looking for feedback on my initial plan to power up my new barn.

Routing 2-2-2-4 AL SER from 200A main panel (in basement) to junction box mounted to 2x12 joist, butted against the 2x12 bond. Feeder protected by 90A breaker in panel. No conduit because of the twists, turns, gas lines, plumbing and there are many existing holes in joist structure. Feeder will be run in parallel with HVAC trunk line. Apparently this is allowed (no conduit) since feeder is larger than 6 AWG. The run in the basement is approx 30'.

Splice 2-2-2-4 MHF in junction box for the run to the barn (straight through/pull configuration). Pass the MHF through hole in bond, bend it 90 degrees to go underground using a 2" PVC Transition. Glue a piece of 2" PVC onto the transition into the ground. Finally, direct bury the MHF out to the barn at 18" (approx 45').

Questions:

1. Can I simply use bushings on the junction box or is something else more elegant required to protect the conductors?
2. Can I **** the J-box directly against the bond, and run the MHF directly through the bond and into the transition?
3. Should I consider mounting the Box on Outside the house?
4. What would you do differently?

Thanks - Glenn

 

[pattenp]

The MHF from the Jbox to where it enters the earth needs to be in conduit. If doing direct bury the MHF needs to be buried 24" unless under a single family driveway or concrete walk then it can be 18". Since you're using MHF the Jbox can be inside or outside.

Edit: I don't know where you got the no conduit is needed if the feeder is larger than #6. The SER cable doesn't need to be in conduit because the installation is the same as NM. It only needs to be in conduit if installed in an area that it may be subject to damage. The MHF needs to be in conduit where above ground and or inside the structure.

 

[Glenn In Michigan]

Thanks for the reply.

Edit: I don't know where you got the no conduit is needed if the feeder is larger than #6.

This is from my local electrical inspector.

 

[justsam]

Since you need to use conduit for entry/exit, it might make sense to just use it end to end and have the additional protection of the cable. Incremental cost for the PVC is not too great.

And while I am spending your money, you may want to consider putting in some low voltage in the trench, (not in same conduit). Cat 5/6, and RG6 coax. Give as much structural separation as practical between low and high voltage.

 

[pattenp]

May be it's a local thing. But the need of conduit is based on wire type and install methods and location. The grounding electrode conductor if under #6 needs to be protected in conduit or cable armor, other than that I'm not aware of any rule for conduit for cables with conductors #6 or under.

Thanks for the reply.

Edit: I don't know where you got the no conduit is needed if the feeder is larger than #6.

This is from my local electrical inspector.

 

[Glenn In Michigan]

I am planning on including some RG6 in the trench.

Running any wire in conduit, even 2" PVC, would be very difficult in my basement with all the obstacles (HVAC, NG and water plumbing, etc). It's not a cost thing. I would have to provide pictures for you all to fully understand the situation.

From a NEC standpoint, is there any restriction against stapling 2-2-2-4 AL SER perpendicular to the bottom of my floor joists?

 

[pattenp]

It is okay to install the SER fastened to the bottom edge of the floor joist because it is large cable. If the cable is smaller than 2 #6 conductors or 3 #8 conductors then it needs to go through bored holes or along running boards.

I am planning on including some RG6 in the trench.

Running any wire in conduit, even 2" PVC, would be very difficult in my basement with all the obstacles (HVAC, NG and water plumbing, etc). It's not a cost thing. I would have to provide pictures for you all to fully understand the situation.

From a NEC standpoint, is there any restriction against stapling 2-2-2-4 AL SER perpendicular to the bottom of my floor joists?

 

[brewchief]

I am planning on including some RG6 in the trench.

Running any wire in conduit, even 2" PVC, would be very difficult in my basement with all the obstacles (HVAC, NG and water plumbing, etc). It's not a cost thing. I would have to provide pictures for you all to fully understand the situation.

From a NEC standpoint, is there any restriction against stapling 2-2-2-4 AL SER perpendicular to the bottom of my floor joists?

I took the conduit suggestion as in running it end to end underground, 5 sticks of 2" pvc look to be under 30$, cheap protection if you ask me.

 

[Glenn In Michigan]

I can't thank everyone enough for the replies!

Couple more questions.

1. What type of connectors should I use to splice together the SER and MHF inside the J-Box?

2. J-Box will be inside. Assume a 1" hole and bushing for the bare SER to enter on one side, and 2" hole on the other side for the MHF to exit (routed in 2" PVC with a attached with a fitting). Are my calculations correct for the size J-Box required?
6 (splice) x 2 (largest conduit is 2 inch) = 12"

 

[pattenp]

A 12X12X4 Jbox is plenty big and gives you good working room. You can use Polaris connectors or splice/reducers with shrink tube. Polaris are $$$.

Polaris

splice /reducer

 

[fflintstone]

asking for advice on an electrical issue on the internet is a recipe for disaster. You will have some ****** from california spouting the latest NEC verbatim, regardless of what NEC your community uses. The only person you should be asking electrical questions to is the Shelby twp Michigan inspector. His opinion is the only one that is valid. Not your buddy’s electrician friend, not the guy at home depot and certainly not some ****** from california.

What is common practice in one area may be totally wrong in another. And if your inspector wants to see it a certain way, NEC code or no NEC code, you better do it the way the guy that signs your inspection wants it.

 

[Highbeam]

Trouble is, the inspector may not be willing to tell you what he wants until you've finished the job and he passes or fails the inspection. If you did the work per the code then you can call BS and you will have made your best effort.

 

[pattenp]

Boy, I'm glad I not from California. I wouldn't want to be referred to as an ******.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

LoL!

 

[Glenn In Michigan]

Totally agree, fflinstone. I've got a plan now, which I will put on paper with some crude drawings and digital photos. I will review with the inspector and make sure we're aligned before I spend any $$$.

Thanks again for all the feedback and advice.

 

[Glenn In Michigan]

Reviewed my plan with the inspector and he totally agrees with the materials and layout. Start digging the trench this week. Thanks againf or the feedback and help!

Also ordered eight 8' / 4-Light T8 fixtures from ContractorLighting.com.

Here's my configuration:


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Front __________________ __________________


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