New Shop Build

[wuboring]

Im having a 54x83 pole building shop put up by Morton for my business and I have afew questions.

Im building it on a lot that was woods (in IL) in november, and I cut all the tree's down where my building needed to go, and pushed the stumps out with a bulldozer, pushed dirt back in the holes and tried to pack them down as good as possible with the tracks (39,000# 750C Deere Dozer). It has frozen and thawed since then, and im worried about insufficient compaction and settling for pouring the floor in the building

any tips on how to get the earth compacted enough so I can pour asap.

a local rental place has vibrating sheeps foot packers from walk behind sizes all the way up to the huge riders that are for road building..

one concern is a packer too big will float over the holes..

any help/tips would be great

 

[mad57]

That was my problem for my 30x80 pole barn same thing, took out the trees and had fill put in, went through a couple of rains which really compacted it well, but when the building finally went up it was low in certain spots, so had to add more fill, 3 days before the cement trucks came, we compacted it with a kabota over and over , but to this day 1 yr later i have some pretty big cracks from settling, the relief cuts are the only things that saved it from going across the whole kit and kubbotle. i would rent a large compactor and some small hand ones , get a keg for the buddys and have at it. good luck with ur build.

 

[wuboring]

what about one of those ride-on giant compactors they use to pack down roads with?

I think i may try one of those even though its gonna be $$ to rent it. I wish i would of just cut the stumps off low and ground them off but i'm pretty inexperienced so i didn't know

 

[twostory]

To compact the dirt properly, you need to excavate to virgin (settled) soil. Then compact the dirt is 4 to 6 inch lifts. Use a big sheeps foot roller and run it over each lift a few times. It you have holes, you can fill them with gravel or crusher run (in 4 to 6 inch lifts) Gravel is somewhat "self compacting"

This is the only good way to fill an area with dirt. If you try to compact 2 to 3 ft of fill, it will only compact the top several inches.

 

[mobetta]

what about one of those ride-on giant compactors they use to pack down roads with?

I think i may try one of those even though its gonna be $$ to rent it. I wish i would of just cut the stumps off low and ground them off but i'm pretty inexperienced so i didn't know

dont kick yourself too hard,the roots would eventually decompose and result in sinkholes anyways. the best way has been outlined by twostory.

 

[NUTTSGT]

When I built my garage, I compacted it every few inches of fill, along with wetting it down.

 

[sberry]

I have done engineered compaction with a dozer, kept rattling it over and over, a dozer while it has low psi really rattles the ground down especially if you didn't try to fill deep holes all at one time. As good or better than a compactor.

 

[rodnok1]

When I tore trees down, I dug a big area up and compacted in stages, let sit, it rained compacted some more. I bet it took 6 months before it finally stopped compacting.

 

[Abbott]

I have always used a tracked crawler for compacting large areas of dirt. If you lay the fill material in a few inches thick at a time then back and forth, back and forth repeat it works well. A D8 of course works best but for a small area I would think a D4, D6 or equivalent would do fine. They are rent able and simple to operate.

 

[BlindViper]

We compacted 12" and up at a time with a jumping jack tamper. They are far better then a plate compactor. These 12" lifts over 4' passed a 99% soil compaction test for the job. I think the name of the dirt we used was cr6? The stuff when compacted is like concrete.

 

[kenners]

Years ago I worked for a contractor that was back filling an old fruit cellar. He filled in 4 to 6 inches at a time and I ran one of those jumping stompers. The backhoe operator stated when he came to that fruit cellar area it was a lot harder to dig than the remaining area.

 

[cyamaha2007]

I wouldnt worry unless its where a pole will land. ive seen holes under concrete the size of a kia and no one knew it was there.....The correct way was already stated many times, if your going to use a compactor the jumping ones work great.

 

[wuboring]

thanks for the information..

looks like i screwed the pooch by digging the stumps out and pushing dirt in the hole and expecting my bulldozer to compact it enough.

im not really sure how im going to remedy this problem but perhaps ill figure something out.

 

[wuboring]

I think they are gonna put up the building, then Im going to excavate out 1 foot of dirt out of the entire floor, see where there is fill and where there is virgin soil, take more out where there is fill, then haul in something compactable and build it up while compacting it every 6" or so..

any thoughts on this?

 

[willymakeit]

If you dont want to wait. Excavate and fill with rock. Moisture has to be right in soil for compaction also.

 

[wuboring]

..just now getting dry enough to pour concrete..

what about using limestone... what do you use to compact it?

 

[Ez Trbo]

Using limestone, are you talking 3/4inch road gravel, fines or chips, or clean stone? Like any fill material best way to compact is to bring it up in nice lifts and if its dry add some water too it. Depending on what you have for equipment to work with a roller is best, but even a decent sized skid loader with a bucket full of rock or dirt works great as well. Just make sure you go back and forth without turning. Using a dozer can get great compaction as well, just have to drive slow and not turn as well, and lots and lots of passes. Good luck.


trbo

 

[wuboring]

im using what is referred to locally as "ag lime" or sometimes waste lime its granular like sand but it packs good. I dont have a roller, but i have a 750d deere dozer. I was thinking of renting a wacker packer but its alot of sq ft to bounce one of those over

 

[Brad Beam]

im using what is referred to locally as "ag lime" or sometimes waste lime its granular like sand but it packs good. I dont have a roller, but i have a 750d deere dozer. I was thinking of renting a wacker packer but its alot of sq ft to bounce one of those over

That will turn to mush when it gets wet. I would never use pulverized lime for building. You should use a graded aggregate. In OH we would use ODOT 304 (fine sand though 1.5" stone)

 

[wuboring]

It does get pretty soft when wet if its loose or uncompacted, but it seems to be what all the concrete guys around here recommend.

 

[Brad Beam]

Are you sure they don't mean lime stone screenings (sand size particles down to dust)? This would work for fine grading your base, but i still wouldn't use more than a couple of inches.

If you use lime the particles are so fine that when it gets wet it will basically liquify. As a kid we used to play on a large pile of ag lime. It would support your weight until you stayed in one spot and jiggled around. We would sink to our waist. This is not what you want for a base for your floor.

Why do they reccomend ag lime if you don't mind me asking?

 

[wuboring]

I guess they say to use it because its cheap, readily available, and according to what ive been told it packs hard as a rock under correct moisture conditions.

I had 300 ton delivered today so i hope im using the right stuff.. Ive seen alot of guys using it so im confident it will work.

Ive been told to spread about 6" thick, dampen it with water, run a wacker packer over it, then bring it up another 6" and repeat.

the final 4" of grade will be done with rock and there is drainage tile under the lime to keep any large amounts of moisture wicked away quickly

 

[Brad Beam]

Good luck and keep us posted on the outcome

 

[wuboring]

Foamular 250 is installed 24" down around the edges for vertical insulation, started putting lime in today to bring it within 12" of final grade. then 4" of rock, 2" of insulation and 6" of concrete with pex in it

 

[wuboring]

10" of rain in the last 24hours is really not helping gettin my floor poured

 

[kbs2244]

But it will help a lot at settling the fill.
I would call it a good thing.
Hold off on the pour.
A good base is what you need more then anything else.

 

[wuboring]

Been packing the lime with a 20,000# vibratory roller today, seems to be going good, hoping to pour next week

photos to come if anyone is interested