Probably not in 50 years. SO still has CDI selling only ~1930s technology ~36 tooth ratchet head torque wrenches. Yes, I have a bunch of them, but c'mon- my 1995 Craftsman torque wrench has a more advanced ratcheting mechanism.
New Snap-On F100
- Thread starter FSUwelder1212
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Probably not in 50 years. SO still has CDI selling only ~1930s technology ~36 tooth ratchet head torque wrenches. Yes, I have a bunch of them, but c'mon- my 1995 Craftsman torque wrench has a more advanced ratcheting mechanism.
Lol that's funny, you're not wrong but I don't mind mine, I really only use it on headbolts all the time and some times wheels when I'm feeling fancy. Other stuff too suspension etc, never cursed at it for being 36 tooth yet tho. Don't see the need for more teeth anyway, at least on half inch.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
Well, they moved the 36 tooth over to Williams pretty soon after going 80 tooth. Before that Williams was 30 tooth. If they stay with the same pattern, that would good. I actually like the Williams metal handle better than Snap-on. Those grooves that they turn into the handle to add a sense of style can be sharp at times.
CHI_Tool&Die
Well-known member
I still haven’t seen any in person but judging off the interwebs, it sounds like Snappy has a lot of wrinkles to smooth out from the first run.
If Williams did get the Dual80 I’d be ecstatic as I personally find the Williams chrome handles more comfortable.
If Williams did get the Dual80 I’d be ecstatic as I personally find the Williams chrome handles more comfortable.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Examples of the wrinkles? I haven't seen much on social media.
demarpaint
Well-known member
Problems for the first run of the 100 tooth ratchets? It wouldn't surprise me.
CHI_Tool&Die
Well-known member
The big one beside the really stiff ratcheting mechanism is the floppy head. Apparently the flex head 100 tooth ratchets are super floppy and it cannot be fixed at the moment but someone on insta said that Snap-on was aware and working on a solution. Then there are a ton of smaller, most likely one-off things guys are talking about like pawls free floating, jammed up directional levers, lots of play in the drive, etc.
Yeah, I’m not shocked either. It’s a big change in design and mechanicals from what all the guys on social media are showing. No doubt there’d be some things that would pop up.
demarpaint
Well-known member
Thanks! I was interested, but I think I'll wait for the second run.
MWEric
Well-known member
In case anyone cares, a couple pics F80 vs F100.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
They made the overall length longer? Is handle diameter the same?
MWEric
Well-known member
Yeah, handle shape and diameter are the same. Although I did not measure them. Used it a bit today. It does have very smooth operation, it feels very similar to the Dual 80. Backdrag is noticeably heavier however.
In case anyone cares, a couple pics F80 vs F100.
Head looks even bigger than the already quite big f80.
This seems like something snap on should have got right at the start. Not their first rodeo.
MWEric
Well-known member
Head is roughly the same size. Just a little thinner.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
It's interesting that they made the contour section of the handle longer.
ChevyEFI
Well-known member
Just order a Bahco 7750 and order a handle from Snappy and fire up the drill press and heat gun. Bam, no ugly screwheads on the selector side.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
Actually, I would probably like that Bahco handle if they didn't put a hole in it.
JSCraftsman
Well-known member
So ok guys, here is a look into the new F-100. I specifically wanted to show you the pawls, and pawl cradle assembly. One other notable addition is that the ball is permanently affixed to the spring, so there is no worry about the ball going bye bye flying into the 4th dimension! Note also the thinner gear compared to the dual 80's gear.
Enjoy...
Enjoy...Attachments
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John Timmins
Well-known member
Haven't they had the 100 tooth round head 3/8 for several years already ?
roofdweller49
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2023
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Round head and pear heads are completely different...
JSCraftsman
Well-known member
Yes sir you are correct, the 100 tooth both swivel heads and non swivel head (FN100 round heads) have been around for years. But these new F100 rats are a completely new design, in addition they have a slighly longer handle and thinner head profile when compared to the F80. I was expecting the F100 to have the similar internals as the F80, plus an additional 20 teeth. But that's not the case, they aren't similar in anyway. S-O has engineered a completely new ratchet mechanism for the F100. Overall it's a completely different 100 tooth design than the FN100 round head ratchets use. The round heads are awesome ratchets...at least imo.
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I had a change to play with one on the truck last week and directly compare it to a new dual 80. There's way too much back drag, even for a new ratchet it's stiff. I've also heard a lot of complaints about the fwd/rev selector getting jammed up. Even the rep didn't seem impressed. Personally I think it's kind of a flop.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
I have liked mine so far. I tried all the tricks I saw on tiktok to make the ratchet not function properly and my ratchet seems immune.
I will agree it feels like it has higher backdrag. It has improved as most ratchets do since I've used it a bit. In practice I've had no issues with the backdrag. I like it so far.
I will agree it feels like it has higher backdrag. It has improved as most ratchets do since I've used it a bit. In practice I've had no issues with the backdrag. I like it so far.
I stepped on the Snap-on truck last week and talked to the driver. He told me that the F100 haven't been released in our region yet and not sure when they will. I like the idea of a thinner head but I don't want increased back drag.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
It's basically as thin as a matco head, but the reverse lever ends up making it still a bit thicker than a matco. Definitely more competitive for thickness against the matco 88 than the dual 80 was.
It -feels- like it has more backdrag thus far. I haven't had any issues with backdrag, and like most ratchets it's still breaking in. You can chuck them up in a drill and spin them for a bit to speed up the process.
Buckgnarly
Well-known member
Biggest question for me....is it worth the upgrade? I got a metric **** ton of SO ratchets, I LOVE my Dual 80/72s.
Or am getting old like the 72/36/breaker bar generations and missing out on something newer/more betterer?!?!?!
Or am getting old like the 72/36/breaker bar generations and missing out on something newer/more betterer?!?!?!
My first Dual 80 was very stiff when I bought it new. After about a month it broke in and the back drag is almost zero. None of my other 3/8 80s have matched the back drag but they're all still smooth and low back drag. I'm hoping the F100 is the same way but I don't want to be the guinea pig when my 80s work great and I have my LP90 when space is tight.
(I can only remember one time when I needed to use the LP90 over the Dual 80 and even then it was only to break a bolt loose.)
(I can only remember one time when I needed to use the LP90 over the Dual 80 and even then it was only to break a bolt loose.)
demarpaint
Well-known member
I hear ya. I'm tempted to email on SO guy and ask if he has them on the truck, but I have a feeling the slow release might mean they might be tweaking them. It would be my luck shortly after I buy one they improve them.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Upgrade? I wouldn't say that. But if the new mechanism proves to be equal to a dual80, with a similar profile, I would be motivated to buy a given type of ratchet with the 100 tooth head vs an 80.
IMO matco has already filled the cynergy 100 tooth market for established techs. They provided a slimmer ratchet than dual 80, so people bought that when they needed the profile. I would have a hard time replacing my reliable matco ratchets, with 100 tooth. I don't see a direct benefit, and matco IMO has the superior locking lever design.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
I think Snap-on went through a lot of trouble to design something we don't need. The Dual 80 is awesome.
They had to put out a 100 tooth to meet competition.
They had to put out a 100 tooth to meet competition.
The internals of the ratchet housing looks similar to the older 36 tooth design, wonder if a 100 kit will fit into a 36 housing?So ok guys, here is a look into the new F-100. I specifically wanted to show you the pawls, and pawl cradle assembly. One other notable addition is that the ball is permanently affixed to the spring, so there is no worry about the ball going bye bye flying into the 4th dimension! Note also the thinner gear compared to the dual 80's gear.
JSCraftsman
Well-known member
The new f100 has a completely different internal bore machining than the older f936 does. None of the components are interchangeable unfortunately. Even the previous dual pawl 80 tooth guts don't work in these new F100 rats. Snap-On has re-engineered a completely new ratchet mechanism for the F100.The internals of the ratchet housing looks similar to the older 36 tooth design, wonder if a 100 kit will fit into a 36 housing?
I've seen what the older 36 tooth and current 80 tooth look like inside, and I knew the 80 won't fit, but it ***** the 100 won't fit into the 36 area despite looking similar.The new f100 has a completely different internal bore machining than the older f936 does. None of the components are interchangeable unfortunately. Even the previous dual pawl 80 tooth guts don't work in these new F100 rats. Snap-On has re-engineered a completely new ratchet mechanism for the F100.
Oh well.
JSCraftsman
Well-known member
Yeah, when the 100's first came out, I myself was thinking there would at least be a possibility that you could upgrade "the dual 80" to the "dual 100" internals. They do share some similarlies, but nope, definitely very different inside their mechanisms. Not to mention the F100 has a considerably thinner profile than both the F80 and F936 rats. But yeah I too also made a note of the resemblances between the 936's and the new 100's ratchet heads. I have both models, and when you put them side by side, their appearance is very similar, minus their different logos on the head. I don't have access to them at the moment. But I can post pictures of the F936 & F100 side by side later tonight.I've seen what the older 36 tooth and current 80 tooth look like inside, and I knew the 80 won't fit, but it ***** the 100 won't fit into the 36 area despite looking similar.
Oh well.
Worried you may be correct. Tooth count is a little bit of marketing for folks who don’t know much.
Tooth count effects ratchet angle, which helps us work near obstructions. It’s a bigger deal for long handled ratchets and less important for the shorters because of the actual displacement at the end of the ratchet. In my opinion, 60 teeth is probably good enough for most ratchets, in terms of angle alone.
Finer teeth means less displacement of the locking pawl, which means less compressive force of the spring that acts against the pawl, which SHOULD mean lower back drag.
If the new ratchets don’t have significantly lower back drag, I’m not sure I get the point of the design. Maybe it’s a reduction in head height, which I also don’t really get, if it’s fractions of an inch. I really doubt this ratchet will function where another one won’t.
One of the companies I work with has developed “super polished” aviation transmissions. These devices run smoother, quieter, and last longer. The gear teeth are polished to a mirror like polish. I would pay extra for super polished dual 80 gears. I suspect they would significantly decrease back drag, while increasing the longevity of the tool. Im inclined to try it myself some day. My guess is, this may be one way a company like Koken could take an 50yr old ratchet design, and make it perform better than modern ratchets.
wafrederick
Well-known member
Snap On pulled them from sale online.I talked my dealer yesterday,he does not have them in stock due to issues with the 100 tooth ratchets.One is they are locking up with the selector up all the way.Also are going in the neutral position after changing directions and the back drag.My dealer told it is going to take months for Snap On to fix these problems
demarpaint
Well-known member
I wonder how they'll handle the early adopters that have problems once they iron this out? Rebuild kits?
I feel like this describes everything on my lawn mower.
gatewaysysop
Well-known member
Probably. I seem to recall Matco having issues with their design, I want to say 1/2" drive in particular, and ended up issuing better rebuild kits and having dealers upgrade all the ratchets already stocked on the trucks, along with anyone else that had the issues.
Not bashing either of the two of them, but you sincerely have to wonder how a product makes it into the hands of customers with these kinds of issues right out of the gate. These don't seem like minor nuances that could have been missed in early testing, so it is somewhat disappointing that they weren't caught sooner. They wouldn't be the only two companies to release a turd at a premium price either, but even so, it's hard to rationalize a miss like that on something as simple a ratchet. That goes doubly given all the reputational damage that can result from a botched release like this. Maybe I just expect too much.
demarpaint
Well-known member
Disappointing, but these things happen. Now it's all in how they handle it, and how quickly.Probably. I seem to recall Matco having issues with their design, I want to say 1/2" drive in particular, and ended up issuing better rebuild kits and having dealers upgrade all the ratchets already stocked on the trucks, along with anyone else that had the issues.
Not bashing either of the two of them, but you sincerely have to wonder how a product makes it into the hands of customers with these kinds of issues right out of the gate. These don't seem like minor nuances that could have been missed in early testing, so it is somewhat disappointing that they weren't caught sooner. They wouldn't be the only two companies to release a turd at a premium price either, but even so, it's hard to rationalize a miss like that on something as simple a ratchet. That goes doubly given all the reputational damage that can result from a botched release like this. Maybe I just expect too much.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
I'm not going to rush out and buy the F100 when the Dual 80 is already smoother than a 747 making a belly landing on an ice skating rink.
