New Toptul wrench
- Thread starter The Muffin Man
- Start date
Yup those are at your local murray's.
I think similar things going on with the stuff in Toptul's 'Other Tools' section. Pretty sure you get the stuff in the same quality also at HF or even brand-name catalogs.
Means you're clueless. Ever seen or held Toptul - NOT!
OP
The Muffin Man
Well-known member
I was planning on doing the same exact thing. I believe Ultgar mentioned a Toptul shipment coming in mid August so I have been monitoring his website like a hawk for any new additions.
I have several stuff from Toptul. But as most of the other tool companies they try to complete their line of tools to have a full portfolio. It is therefore common practice to source such parts from a supplier.
Toptul saves a lot of money by not having to build a production line for the few hunderd brake caliper tools (or or other speciality tools) they might sell a year.
ultgar
Well-known member
I suspected Facom sent their 440 engineering drawings to Toptul for manufacturing. They are similar to the Super Torque series from Toptul. The 440 wrench is made in Czech Republic.
I prefer the 440 series identification features over those on the Toptul wrench.
I prefer the 440 series identification features over those on the Toptul wrench.
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toptul or rotar, wichever you choose, are obviously selling tools to other brands made to various specs. i have a titan ratchet that is identical to one in the toptul catalog. i have also seen ratchets that look slightly differant but use the same components at hf. the titans can be seen at northern tool stores or their catalog. i have no doubt that toptul is providing tools to other sources. i also saw some stuff that looked an awful lot like it marked johnnesway at fastenal yesterday. i think you are being naive and need to look at what other sources have before you tell him he is cluless.
ultgar
Well-known member
Just had a chance to compare the Facom 440 Series combination wrenches and the Toptul Super Torque series. They are NOT the same wrench.....very similar. The ends appear to be the same but Facom did some streamlining of the shaft of the wrench, removing unnecessary weight without affecting strength. The Facom wrenches (at least the ones I examined) are approx 6% lighter than the comparable Toptul wrenches. The sizes stamped on the Facom wrenches are larger and easier for us older guys to read. But bottom line, the Toptul wrenches are much cheaper. SD
ultgar
Well-known member
how much for a 13mm wrench ?Do you take paypal
I didn't buy any open stock of the wrenches with this first order. I think it would be much cheaper to get the 440.13 in Germany or UK rather than pay shipping and customs from the US. Steve
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r6_cannibal
Well-known member
Any chance you were able to get pictures of the two side by side?
ultgar
Well-known member
I though about it....I took the 32mm size which was the largest in both kits....they were identical in length, one stacked on top of the other but the center grip parts was slimmer on the Facom. The 32mm Facom was 1.452 lbs, the Toptul version was 1.542 lbs. SD
HarveyM
Well-known member
I'll echo what Steve said:
I've had the Facom 440's for a year, I love how great they feel. With a Canadian Toptul distributor I purchased the 26 piece super-torque set to see what they were like (at less than 6 bucks Canadian a wrench delivered they're a super deal).
They arrived today, so I'll give my first impressions. The Facom's shape definitely gives it the edge in comfort and they're marginally thicker than the Toptul wrenches. Comparing the 19mm the box ends using a feeler gauge showed .018" play for both. The Facom was a bit tighter than the Topul, but not by much. I tried the same with a (15 year old?) Craftsman raised panel for .02" inch of play. For the open end the Facom and Craftsman had .01" play, the Toptul .014"
Here's a few So-So pics:
In the rack the Facom is uppermost, The Toptul in the middle and the craftsman lowest.
I've had the Facom 440's for a year, I love how great they feel. With a Canadian Toptul distributor I purchased the 26 piece super-torque set to see what they were like (at less than 6 bucks Canadian a wrench delivered they're a super deal).
They arrived today, so I'll give my first impressions. The Facom's shape definitely gives it the edge in comfort and they're marginally thicker than the Toptul wrenches. Comparing the 19mm the box ends using a feeler gauge showed .018" play for both. The Facom was a bit tighter than the Topul, but not by much. I tried the same with a (15 year old?) Craftsman raised panel for .02" inch of play. For the open end the Facom and Craftsman had .01" play, the Toptul .014"
Here's a few So-So pics:
In the rack the Facom is uppermost, The Toptul in the middle and the craftsman lowest.
Attachments
Joe H
Well-known member
It is sad that they wont be making these in the american style chrome finish. Maybe it looks better in person but I personally dont like the satin finish on the wrenches at all.
OP
The Muffin Man
Well-known member
Just received a set of the Toptul wrenches and I ordered over the weekend. The beams are much more comfortable than the traditional Toptul wrenches, every corner is nicely rounded. The deeper engraved channel compliments the hands very nicely and widens toward the center lenght of the beam.
These wrenches are most definately shorter than most other brands as well. The 19mm wrench measures in at about 9 in. In my sitiuation, I will most likely benefit from the short lenght as I will primarially be wrenching of motorcycles and power-sports were clearance is a issue.
Anyways here are some pics I was able to get before sunset...
These wrenches are most definately shorter than most other brands as well. The 19mm wrench measures in at about 9 in. In my sitiuation, I will most likely benefit from the short lenght as I will primarially be wrenching of motorcycles and power-sports were clearance is a issue.
Anyways here are some pics I was able to get before sunset...
expatriated
Well-known member
NICE!
I also don't mind the shorter wrenches--I'm mostly on bikes, too.
I have the open ended chrome Toptuls; now I'll have to get a set of these as well.
I also don't mind the shorter wrenches--I'm mostly on bikes, too.
I have the open ended chrome Toptuls; now I'll have to get a set of these as well.
CamarosRus
Well-known member
Sure like to read comments about and see pics of TOPTUL's conventional design, long pattern, mirror finish, combo wrenches.
Joe H
Well-known member
Great pics Muffin. Is that the new smoother water satin finish that toptul is using?
OP
The Muffin Man
Well-known member
Maybe our resident Toptul dealers could chime in on that question. I sure would like to know as well
. I shot Toptul's customer service a few questions about the AAEW series, one of which regarding the forging process Are Facom's 440 series wrenches cold forged?
Thanks Joe, They are the (newer) watery satin finish, All of the Toptul Ratchets sockets and wrenches that I've ordered are the watery satin finish. The only exception is the CAAH series socket extensions (and only a few of them were the older satin chrome.) While I must admit the older satin chrome is truly beautiful, the watery satin finish seems to have greater surface hardness
I also would like to see a SAE version as well, I shot Toptul's customer service regarding if they have any plans to release any in the near future. If not, I most likely will buy Facom's 440 wrenches.
OP
The Muffin Man
Well-known member
I received a response, from Toptul this evening...
Where did these come from? Last I heard there were none in the USA.
OP
The Muffin Man
Well-known member
I ordered the set from www.ultimategarage.com
cool ! thanks for asking them !!
You are most welcome! Are there any distinct advantages that the cold forging process offers over the hot forging process?
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superautobacs
Well-known member
Monte,
Who produces cold forged wrenches?
I was under the assumption that all wrenches were hot forged.
Who produces cold forged wrenches?
I was under the assumption that all wrenches were hot forged.
The information was actually in this thread
Thats why i was asking ...
I never heard of cold forging wrenches but i also never heard of cold forging pliers but the newer Snap-On pliers part# 47CF and 196CF are also cold forged ( source )
ps: from what i know cold forging is not better just cheaper. You save the cost of heating the metal, you don`t need to keep the forging dies heated in an oven prior to using them, and the cold forging process produces tools with better dimensional outlines so they have not to reworked as much.
superautobacs
Well-known member
Monte,
I used to think that hot forging was more costly to run, too, but I've since learned that cold forging equipment is more costly (upfront, operational cost or both, I'm not sure).
I used to think that hot forging was more costly to run, too, but I've since learned that cold forging equipment is more costly (upfront, operational cost or both, I'm not sure).
Interesting read! Six years later, do you guys know of other manufacturers beside Facom who cold forge their wrenches?
Assuming the information in this thread is correct, it seems unlikely then that Rotar is oem for facom 440's?
Assuming the information in this thread is correct, it seems unlikely then that Rotar is oem for facom 440's?
ultgar
Well-known member
Facom used cold forging for the old 40 series wrenches but I've never seen that mentioned for the 440's. In fact, I haven't seen the phrase "cold forging" in any Facom literature for the past 6-7 years.
Steve D
Steve D
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from an employee of a german tool company i heard that one reason Facom went (almost) out of business is that they invested into "horizontal cold forging presses" which probably were quite (too ?) expensive.....
Loscaldazar
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A lot actually. Cold forging can produce some very tough tools. Snap On and SK use this technique (cold forging) to make their sockets. Results in some of the strongest sockets on the market.
Kensgarage
Banned
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Just for giggles
I think the Facom 440 series is available in a full polish chrome finish, here in Australia, branded Sidchrome 440 series. I have a 5 pce set of large combo wrenches (1" to 1 1/4"). They appear identical to the Facom 440 series apart from the polished finish and the straight sided handle beam, even the packaging is the same. The only possible difference is the Sidchrome version I have, has a anti-slip design on the open end. I can't see any indication of the Facom version using this.
I believe the Sidchrome brand (once a premium Australian made brand) is now part of the Stanley brand and as such, tools are sourced from various suppliers, mostly Taiwan based. However many items are clearly Facom, like the "Sidchrome" circlip pliers, made in France and their anti-vibe ball pein hammers which look the same as one of the big U.S tool truck brands version. Just look at Sidchromes website at the various 1/2" Dr ratchets they offer, three facom designs and three more old style Sidchrome styles or similar.
The Sidchrome brand is a bit of a mixed bag at the moment, I purchased a large tool set for our apprentice and it has a lot of excellent Facom manufactured tools, but then you pick up the 1/2" Dr ratchet and it is a cheap-n-nasty asian reproduction of the old Sidchrome ratchet design that is a 50 year old design. The actual contents of their tool kits appears to be changing over time, I think for the better as there seems to be a lot more Facom and less of the items that seem to come from the generic asian manufacturers.
However, I will say that the Sidchrome tools that are from Facom or at least designed and manufactured to their standards (I presume), seem to be very good value here in Australia at the moment. I picked up that set of 5 big combo spanners (wrenches) for Au$100- retail price, which is very good value. They are excellent spanners.
I believe the Sidchrome brand (once a premium Australian made brand) is now part of the Stanley brand and as such, tools are sourced from various suppliers, mostly Taiwan based. However many items are clearly Facom, like the "Sidchrome" circlip pliers, made in France and their anti-vibe ball pein hammers which look the same as one of the big U.S tool truck brands version. Just look at Sidchromes website at the various 1/2" Dr ratchets they offer, three facom designs and three more old style Sidchrome styles or similar.
The Sidchrome brand is a bit of a mixed bag at the moment, I purchased a large tool set for our apprentice and it has a lot of excellent Facom manufactured tools, but then you pick up the 1/2" Dr ratchet and it is a cheap-n-nasty asian reproduction of the old Sidchrome ratchet design that is a 50 year old design. The actual contents of their tool kits appears to be changing over time, I think for the better as there seems to be a lot more Facom and less of the items that seem to come from the generic asian manufacturers.
However, I will say that the Sidchrome tools that are from Facom or at least designed and manufactured to their standards (I presume), seem to be very good value here in Australia at the moment. I picked up that set of 5 big combo spanners (wrenches) for Au$100- retail price, which is very good value. They are excellent spanners.
And you can't make tough tools with hot forging? Is that what you're saying?
No man, to some people it's just interesting to know how certain things are manufactured and the advantages/disadvantages of different techniques.
+ this kind of information can give you clues as to who is the OEM of certain products. If that doesn't matter to you either, fine...
+ this kind of information can give you clues as to who is the OEM of certain products. If that doesn't matter to you either, fine...
Loscaldazar
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Nope. You can make great tools with hot forging. It's just that Cold Forging > Hot Forging for steel tools.
espyking83
Well-known member
How much was the set? I really need some decent metric wrenches for my garage.