Newcomer 30x50 first try

[oachalon]

Hi,

This is my first design using Menards website on a potential 30x50 garage. Looking for everyone's expertise

30x50
2x6 construction
All plywood (I just dont like OSB)
Stick built
Planning on monolithic slab. Minimum 5" thick, maybe 6" if I can afford it.
12ft ceilings
6/12 roof pitch (requirement of HOA)
I am limited by code to 1532 square ft, so i might actually go 30x51.
Limited to a maximum height of 20ft (cough might be slightly higher, hope they dont catch it).
20x10 garage door
Man door on the one side
3 windows on one side.
Man door on the back.
The one side is up against woods, so dont really need windows. the rear man door opens up to my leach field.

This will be used to store cars, workshop, and maybe a 2 post and 4 post lift.

Electrical, insulation, heating all down the road.

I attached the garage plan from Menards.

Im starting to get quotes on the concrete and have an amish crew to build it once my design is finalized.

Thanks,

 

[reader2580]

I would go with multiples of four feet for the sides to minimize waste of sheet goods. Even more important with how much sheet goods cost these days.

I used to be a big plywood guy, but I compare how easily today's crappy CDX plywood warps and how flat OSB stays that my allegiance has gone over to OSB. I only use plywood these days if I need to save weight, or if the material will be exposed for people to look at.

 

[andyvh1959]

Sounds like fun! I used the online Menards garage designer system for my 24x28 shop garage: 5x12 pitch, scissors trusses, 2x6 8' walls on two rows of 8" block on a 4" slab, 16x7 OH door and 36 service door. Plans and BOM from Menards were so good and complete (plan and elevation prints) that I was able to submit it via email it to the Green Bay inspector to get my building/electrical permits while I was in MS for work. Submitted it on a Monday and had my permit by that Friday on my return home from MS.

Should look good with a 6x12 pitch. I hired a contractor friend to frame up the walls and set the trusses on top. I built everything from the top sill up. When I did the sheeting/roofing I realized the 5x12 pitch was plenty, and a 6x12 pitch would have been difficult to work on singly.
If you go with scissors trusses on that 6x12 pitch, on an 8' wall at 30' wide you'd have close to 13' floor to ceiling height inside at the peak of the ceiling, maybe enough for a car lift.

 

[oachalon]

I am just having a hard time going with OSB. Am i crazy for not wanting to use it with the modern glues they use now?

I would go with multiples of four feet for the sides to minimize waste of sheet goods. Even more important with how much sheet goods cost these days.

I used to be a big plywood guy, but I compare how easily today's crappy CDX plywood warps and how flat OSB stays that my allegiance has gone over to OSB. I only use plywood these days if I need to save weight, or if the material will be exposed for people to look at.

 

[oachalon]

Sounds like fun! I used the online Menards garage designer system for my 24x28 shop garage: 5x12 pitch, scissors trusses, 2x6 8' walls on two rows of 8" block on a 4" slab, 16x7 OH door and 36 service door. Plans and BOM from Menards were so good and complete (plan and elevation prints) that I was able to submit it via email it to the Green Bay inspector to get my building/electrical permits while I was in MS for work. Submitted it on a Monday and had my permit by that Friday on my return home from MS.

Should look good with a 6x12 pitch. I hired a contractor friend to frame up the walls and set the trusses on top. I built everything from the top sill up. When I did the sheeting/roofing I realized the 5x12 pitch was plenty, and a 6x12 pitch would have been difficult to work on singly.
If you go with scissors trusses on that 6x12 pitch, on an 8' wall at 30' wide you'd have close to 13' floor to ceiling height inside at the peak of the ceiling, maybe enough for a car lift.

Right now I am planning on using scissor trusses, even with 12ft walls. I have no need to store anything in the attic or have an upstairs.

 

[PWC Repair]

I would go with multiples of four feet for the sides to minimize waste of sheet goods. Even more important with how much sheet goods cost these days.

Very good point. Ask the HOA if you can get a variance and go 32x48.....it's only 4sq ft over and there would be no wasted material.

 

[oachalon]

Very good point. Ask the HOA if you can get a variance and go 32x48.....it's only 4sq ft over and there would be no wasted material.

I agree, and like the idea of 32x48, issue is the 1532 sqft is a limit from the city, not my HOA. I would have to apply for a variance.

 

[thammel]

If you can get ceiling height to 12'6", this will open up lots of options for lifts. I went with 12' exactly and found many lifts wanted just a few inches more than that.

 

[reader2580]

Unless you need a specific width or length you could play with your wall sizes to get the most square footage while being at four foot intervals.

 

[reader2580]

My brother just built his own house (He did a lot of the work). Some of the OSB sat exposed for several months and I saw no issues with it. The OSB subflooring got very wet when it rained, but it just swelled a tiny bit along the edges. It was flat as the day it was installed otherwise.

I have in my shop some 1/2" CDX plywood, some furniture plywood, and some 5/8" OSB laying against the walls. It is a dry environment yet the CDX plywood is pretty warped. The furniture plywood is pretty flat and the OSB is perfectly flat after leaning up against walls and being abused for seven years.

 

[oachalon]

If you can get ceiling height to 12'6", this will open up lots of options for lifts. I went with 12' exactly and found many lifts wanted just a few inches more than that.

My HOA has a minimum 6/12 roof pitch requirement and my city has a maximum height of 20ft requirement. I figured going scissor trusses might help, but might force me to put the lift in the center.

I know, all these stupid requirements from these groups.

 

[mdim]

For reference, on my 30x50 I went with a 6" slab and it added $1500 over 4" so not super crazy cost addition.

 

[oachalon]

For reference, on my 30x50 I went with a 6" slab and it added $1500 over 4" so not super crazy cost addition.

Thanks for the information.

 

[racecougar]

Limited to a maximum height of 20ft (cough might be slightly higher, hope they dont catch it).

What is your recourse when the permit dept denies the application? Will you have to pay Menards for a revised set of prints? The building overall height will be called out in the final detailed prints.

 

[TractorJeff]

Insulate under the Slab! When I built my new heated Shop, I didn't budget for it, now the snow melts away from the slab 6 to 8 inches.
As far as the OSB.
I did most of the building myself so at times the OSB got rained on before I could cover it. Some pieces swelled after being exposed for a year, but there was no losses. Installed and dried its fine!
I also used Menards free program to "build" the design. I played with the windows and doors to get what I wanted. I put windows in all 4 walls to be able to see the wildlife(turkeys and deer) all around my Shop.

 

[tthornto]

I wouldn't mess around with the max height, you don't want to be forced to tear something down and rebuild. Find out how they measure the height. I think most jurisdictions measure from finished grade not top of slab, usually they go up to the highest point (ridge cap) others may just measure to top of the truss (not sure). The regulation should have a documented method of how the height is measured, find that and also ask the inspector if possible. If the max height is an issue cut the width back to 28' and it won't be a problem anymore. 28 is also a multiple of 4 so you will save on materials and have fewer cuts. By reducing width to 28 you can increase length to 52 (multiple of 4), or even 54 (max square footage.) I would double check how they measure the max square footage too, do they go by exterior dimensions or interior square footage?

I agree with others here that OSB is better than it used to be, and plywood is worse than it used to be, but you should get whatever sheathing you want, it is your building.

 

[oachalon]

I wouldn't mess around with the max height, you don't want to be forced to tear something down and rebuild. Find out how they measure the height. I think most jurisdictions measure from finished grade not top of slab, usually they go up to the highest point (ridge cap) others may just measure to top of the truss (not sure). The regulation should have a documented method of how the height is measured, find that and also ask the inspector if possible. If the max height is an issue cut the width back to 28' and it won't be a problem anymore. 28 is also a multiple of 4 so you will save on materials and have fewer cuts. By reducing width to 28 you can increase length to 52 (multiple of 4), or even 54 (max square footage.) I would double check how they measure the max square footage too, do they go by exterior dimensions or interior square footage?

I agree with others here that OSB is better than it used to be, and plywood is worse than it used to be, but you should get whatever sheathing you want, it is your building.

I will look into the height information, that is a good thought. Max square footage is from the exterior faces. I want to if possible for storage park 3 cars next to each other and 28ft it starts to definitely get tight from what I can see. I know 30ft is as well, but its plausible.

I included a quick snapshot of the requirements from my city. I am the 2nd (R-4 zoning) column.

 

[racecougar]

I want to if possible for storage park 3 cars next to each other and 28ft it starts to definitely get tight from what I can see. I know 30ft is as well, but its plausible.

For reference, this is 30'. If we're talking typical cars (not crew cab long bed trucks), 30' is very comfortable to park in and have workbenches, equipment, racking, etc. behind/in-front of the vehicles. 28' would still be fine, but would cut down on what you could place behind/in-front of the cars.

 

[oachalon]

For reference, this is 30'. If we're talking typical cars (not crew cab long bed trucks), 30' is very comfortable to park in and have workbenches, equipment, racking, etc. behind/in-front of the vehicles. 28' would still be fine, but would cut down on what you could place behind/in-front of the cars.

Thanks, but the way my property is setup, i have to go 30 wide and 50 deep, so the 30 wide is where i would try and force 3 cars next to each other.

 

[oachalon]

I did get the attached back from the city today. Based on what I see, i can go 12ft walls plus the 6/12 pitch roof.

 

[reader2580]

Based on your latest post I would look at doing 32 wide x 48 deep. Technically, you can only go 47 feet 10.5 inches to be at 1532 SF. Maybe the city would let you do the extra 1.5" inches to use full 4x8 sheets of material. Otherwise, cutting off a few inches off of a 4 feet wide sheet is not a huge waste.

 

[oachalon]

Based on your latest post I would look at doing 32 wide x 48 deep. Technically, you can only go 47 feet 10.5 inches to be at 1532 SF. Maybe the city would let you do the extra 1.5" inches to use full 4x8 sheets of material. Otherwise, cutting off a few inches off of a 4 feet wide sheet is not a huge waste.

I would have to say, i think i agree. Previously the height issue kept me at 30 wide, but from the new data, i think I can go 32 wide and just have my builder go slightly smaller than 48 to be safe.

Now brings up another point. Do i stick with my single 20x10 door, or because I am a little wider go with 2 12x10 doors?

 

[racecougar]

Now brings up another point. Do i stick with my single 20x10 door, or because I am a little wider go with 2 12x10 doors?

I would choose two doors. That provides less open area when moving a car in/out (heat or cooling loss), reduces the size/weight of the doors and load on the operator(s), adds strength to that end wall, and in the event of a spring or operator failure, you'll still have egress for a vehicle through the other door. Downsides are additional cost and slightly more heat/cooling loss with the doors closed due to the larger overall door area.

 

[Spareparts]

I like the 2 - 12' doors better than 1 - 20' door, a friend had a 20' door and lost the roof off his building
due to high winds. That structure between the doors is another anchor point from the trusses to the slab.
I am not an engineer, just don't like roof work.

 

[72 Z27]

I would have to say, i think i agree. Previously the height issue kept me at 30 wide, but from the new data, i think I can go 32 wide and just have my builder go slightly smaller than 48 to be safe.

Now brings up another point. Do i stick with my single 20x10 door, or because I am a little wider go with 2 12x10 doors?

2 12x10 doors. This is the door setup I planned to go with on my eventual 32 x 40 shop.

 

[Keyblazer]

Awesome.
I am looking at a similar build... will be starting a thread soon...

I would be very interested if you would share your cost to build?

 

[oachalon]

Awesome.
I am looking at a similar build... will be starting a thread soon...

I would be very interested if you would share your cost to build?

I dont have costs yet, as i get them, i will definitely provide that info.

 

[PWC Repair]

What do you have that would require a 12ft wide door? Why not just the more common 10x10?

 

[oachalon]

What do you have that would require a 12ft wide door? Why not just the more common 10x10?

Currently nothing, but at the same time i don't want to 5 years down the road saying I should have put the 12ft doors in. Also i figured if i need to park 3 cars wide its easier to maneuver cars out of the doors if needed with 12ft doors than 10ft doors.

 

[Skooterj]

30 foot wide 6/12 pitch roof should only have a rise of about 7.5 feet. On a 12 foot wall, you are looking at 19.5 feet to the peak. But the building department is not measuring to the peak. They are only measuring to the mid point of the rise, so 3.75 feet. You are way under the 20 foot limit at that point. Same with 32 foot wide trusses. Those only rise 8 feet, so the building department only counts them as 4 feet tall. And no building inspector I have ever worked with is going to measure 47 feet 10.5 inches versus 48 feet.

 

[reader2580]

I will look into the height information, that is a good thought. Max square footage is from the exterior faces. I want to if possible for storage park 3 cars next to each other and 28ft it starts to definitely get tight from what I can see. I know 30ft is as well, but its plausible.

How do you plan to store three cars wide with a single 20 foot door or two 12 foot doors? Drive one car way in and then back it into the front corner that has no garage door?

 

[racecougar]

How do you plan to store three cars wide with a single 20 foot door or two 12 foot doors? Drive one car way in and then back it into the front corner that has no garage door?

He'll have plenty of depth to maneuver in; the door(s) are just the funnel in and out.

 

[Glemon]

I would definitely do the two doors, it gives you so much more flexibility in how you lay things out, and less moving multiple vehicles to get things in and out..

On the measurements/waste x 4' measurements issue, if I was planning a subdivision of twenty identical units or bidding a project and wanted to come in low I would probably care about it enough to plan around it, but on a one off I was building for myself I would build the size I want or that fits the lot, and not worry too much about the costs of a few extra sheets of OSB. That's just me, all else equal sure, but otherwise go with the size you want. I am so cheap I generally squeak when I walk too. Plus most of what I cut off I can probably use somewhere else.

 

[oachalon]

He'll have plenty of depth to maneuver in; the door(s) are just the funnel in and out.

Correct, that would be my plan.

 

[ericm]

Correct, that would be my plan.

You'll need to keep a lot of floor space clear for manuvering. I don't know about you but when I have empty space sooner or later I end up with stuff in it. For my three car wide 36x44 shop I will have a 10' door for the bay with the lift and a 16' door for the other two bays. The back half will be for equipment and work space.

 

[nadogail]

I have found that what I was taught in my youth is not always reliable today. In my city I see OSB used where plywood was previously the standard, today’s OSB when protected is well regarded. Today’s acrylic paint out performs what was sold back in the day. I have embraced many new things, the old Stuff was not as Good as we thought. I applaud your choice of an approved design package from a full service lumber yard, Why reinvent the wheel?

 

[reader2580]

Some people still think OSB is the same as that waferboard **** that was popular around 1980. About the only thing waferboard was good for was paneling on a wall.

 

[racecougar]

You'll need to keep a lot of floor space clear for manuvering. I don't know about you but when I have empty space sooner or later I end up with stuff in it. For my three car wide 36x44 shop I will have a 10' door for the bay with the lift and a 16' door for the other two bays. The back half will be for equipment and work space.

It really doesn't take much depth to maneuver. I park my vehicles in the 30' direction of my building, and with workbenches front and back, I'm easily able to park completely out of line of the door openings (between the door openings or in the bay without a door in front of it). Both the F150 (long bed, BTW) and the C10 are parked with a wall in front of them in this photo. There are 4' wide workbenches front and rear of the C10 with ample walking room between. The F150 has 3' of equipment behind it and 1' of bolt bins/drawers in front of it, again with ample egress both front and rear.

 

[oachalon]

Im bouncing between the 2 12x10 doors or going with a 16x10 and a 10x10. That would give me 2ft between everything, wondering if that is enough spacing? i dont plan on having any storage really in the front of the garage, that will all be against the back wall.

 

[oachalon]

I am resurrecting my thread. I am going with a 32x48 garage now. 1 16x10 door and a 10x10 door.

A few questions:

I have been quoted on the foundation, one quote is with 12"x42" footers and then 2 courses of 8" block on top, the other quote is
42" -Concrete Continuous Frost Footings 12"w x 36"d
w/#4 Rebar Reinforcement

So from what I can see this would have 6" concrete curbs. The slab is 6" slab on grade over 4" aggregate and vapor barrier for both.

Pricing is roughly the same for both. The big difference is time. The block on top contractor wont be able to do it till mid summer. the other guy can do it in a few weeks.

My next question is placement of my 2 man doors and windows. I am only putting windows on the one side as that is where my yard is. The other side is woods, and the back is a leach bed so I do want a door back there, but don't need windows.