No Main? WTF

[Acuratechva]

I simply can not understand this design. The main you see pictured is not really a main, it only cuts the power to half the panel. All the high voltage brakers have no "main.

There is a 60 amp they call "MAIN" but it does not cut power to the panel. Is this a 70's genius engineering?

Why would anyone install a fuse panel without a Main that cuts power to complete box. What am i missing?

 

[kd3pc]

Old school split bus panel...took "advantage" of a previous NEC reg.

I don't believe they are NEC acceptable in residential any longer and should likely be replaced sooner than later, if nothing more to have a single switch to cut power to the home.

 

[Acuratechva]

Thanks. I thought i was missing something. Speechless.....

if code didnt require it to be done by a certified it would be gone

 

[ishiboo]

Thanks. I thought i was missing something. Speechless.....

if code didnt require it to be done by a certified it would be gone

Why are you speechless? It's just not what you're used to seeing. Split bus panels were quite common during that era.

If you are concerned but cannot replace the panel, free up two spots on top with two tandems down below, and feed the panel via a breaker instead of the lugs. Another option is to have a professional install a main fused disconnect outside. I like this route because you can disconnect EVERYTHING inside and work anywhere in the panel without a care in the world.

 

[Mustang51js]

That was like a main to the lighting circuits,seen that a few times in federal pacific panels also

 

[APEowner]

The main you see pictured is not really a main, it only cuts the power to half the panel.

That actually should cut power to the whole panel. As you go down each side of the panel alternating breakers attach to opposite sides of the buss. If you pull any two adjacent breakers you should be able to see that connection to the buss on every other breaker crosses over.

 

[Zeke]

That actually should cut power to the whole panel. As you go down each side of the panel alternating breakers attach to opposite sides of the buss. If you pull any two adjacent breakers you should be able to see that connection to the buss on every other breaker crosses over.

If that was true you'd have a 60A protecting 3) 30A and 2) 50A.

 

[soob]

It's not that big of a deal. Lots of houses are hooked up to main panels with six 220v circuits, for the big appliances and one or two for subpanels. Same basic idea as yours. Each of the six big ones is considered a service disconnect.

To work in those panels you need to disconnect the power at the meter (usually by pulling the meter). Call the electric co to ask them what you need to do (for me it was just call them when done and ask them to reseal it).

 

[Rock knocker]

If that was true you'd have a 60A protecting 3) 30A and 2) 50A.

Which is OK

 

[Rock knocker]

That actually should cut power to the whole panel.

Bingo

 

[teamextreme]

Bingo

No, read what was said above. This is a split bus panel. Alternating busses, or busses crossing over has nothing to do with how this is set up. The upper half of the bus (not half split left vs right, or every other space) has no disconnect, and the lower half is shut off via the 60 amp "main" breaker. But that main does not power down the upper half. I think this arrangement would actually still be legal. Goofy, but legal. There is still a 6 handle rule and this meets it. You just have to be able to disconnect power to the building with no more than 6 switch throws. The panel bus itself would still be hot, but you've disconnected power to the building.

 

[Rock knocker]

No, read what was said above. This is a split bus panel. Alternating busses, or busses crossing over has nothing to do with how this is set up. The upper half of the bus (not half split left vs right, or every other space) has no disconnect, and the lower half is shut off via the 60 amp "main" breaker. But that main does not power down the upper half. I think this arrangement would actually still be legal. Goofy, but legal. There is still a 6 handle rule and this meets it. You just have to be able to disconnect power to the building with no more than 6 switch throws. The panel bus itself would still be hot, but you've disconnected power to the building.

You are clearly wrong. Explain the multiple two pole breakers at every conceivable location

 

[Acuratechva]

Why are you speechless? It's just not what you're used to seeing. Split bus panels were quite common during that era.

Because it makes no logical sense to have a main switch which does not kill the whole system.

It doesn't bother me enough to where i will bother redoing it. Just ... i dont get it . I'll have to do some in depth reading to see the true benefits.

Which is OK

How is hanging 190 amps worth of circuits on a single 60 breaker ok? Its not the way this system is set up, however for the sake of self education and arguing i'd you to explain.

 

[Rock knocker]

How is hanging 190 amps worth of circuits on a single 60 breaker ok? Its not the way this system is set up, however for the sake of self education and arguing i'd you to explain.

It requires a load calculation, but in any case 190A may be a stretch

 

[teamextreme]

You are clearly wrong. Explain the multiple two pole breakers at every conceivable location

Multiple 2 poles at "every conceivable location"? Not sure what you mean there, nor what it would imply from a main disconnect standpoint. Is your assertion that the 2 pole breakers at the top are main disconnecting means. Which ones? All of them?

While I will admit there's more than the average number of 2 poles in this panel, they are simply nothing more than 240v branch circuits. Dryer, stove, A/C, maybe a cooktop and a garage device would account for the 5 branch circuits. The 6th is the 60 amp lighting and appliance circuit "main" in the lower left which feeds the bottom half of the panel. You can see the wires feeding the second set of lugs. These 6 make up the max 6 handle rule (see my above post). It's been a long time since I've seen one, but I have personally worked on these panels before.

So I guess that makes you clearly wrong...

 

[APEowner]

You can see the wires feeding the second set of lugs.

I stand corrected! I couldn't see the what those wires were feeding until I downloaded the picture and zoomed in. I thought that the power to the panel came into that 60 amp breaker. Apparently it's fed from the top out of the picture.

 

[Mustang51js]

No main for the double pole breakers on top, and 60 amp controls the bottom half of the panel.

 

[Zeke]

Some people just shouldn't post on some forums. And I know a couple right here on this thread

Don't worry, man, I'm just yankin' your chain a bit.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Old school split bus panel...took "advantage" of a previous NEC reg.

I don't believe they are NEC acceptable in residential any longer and should likely be replaced sooner than later, if nothing more to have a single switch to cut power to the home.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Old school split bus panel...took "advantage" of a previous NEC reg.

I don't believe they are NEC acceptable in residential any longer and should likely be replaced sooner than later, if nothing more to have a single switch to cut power to the home.

It's still in effect as of 2011:

230.71 Maximum Number of Disconnects.
(A) General. The service disconnecting means for each service permitted by 230.2, or for each set of service-entrance conductors permitted by 230.40, Exception No. 1, 3, 4, or 5, shall consist of not more than six switches or sets of circuit breakers, or a combination of not more than six switches and sets of circuit breakers, mounted in a single enclosure, in a group of separate enclosures, or in or on a switchboard. There shall be not more than six sets of disconnects per service grouped in any one location.

 

[Stuff]

It's still in effect as of 2011:

Nope. Split bus no longer allowed. You need to keep reading. NEC is a monster with tendrils.

408.36 Exception No.1: Individual protection shall not be required
for a panelboard used as service equipment with
multiple disconnecting means in accordance with 230.71.
In panelboards protected by three or more main circuit
breakers or sets of fuses, the circuit breakers or sets of
fuses shall not supply a second bus structure within the
same panelboard assembly.

 

[alfredeneuman]

I was referring to the "took advantage" of a previous NEC reg" part, not the split buss.
Sorry about the misunderstanding

They had to amend the Code to specifically prohibit that, and didn't "take advantage of a previous NEC reg"

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Don't worry, man, I'm just yankin' your chain a bit.

Looks like Rock Knocker needs to eat his own words...

wned:

Funny i remember rock knocker saying that on the other thread.