Ampco Monel Nickel alloy. P.I.R. swap $1.00 table.So I see that it's missing the the teeth insert for the lower jaw but I take it over to seller and he's like..."some lady just brought it back and was bitchin about it being broken so......." I'm like, "yeah Bro, I think I can swing a dollar for it" Pretty sure the seller and the previous buyer were fooled by the color and thought it was steel.
Non Sparking Tools, Ampco, Berylco, Ect
- Thread starter RagTopTA
- Start date
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Same, with regularity in my neck o' the woods, but this....
...is usually the only time I buy them. Sellers who know what BeCu is tend to think it's worth what Au is worth.
Right? plus sellers can't get over what they see them retail for new. I've seen the prices for BeCu and AlBr tools but I've never seen a price list for a Monel wrench...hell, this wrench has nearly $20.00 of Nickel in it alone.
S-K Tool Fanatic!
Well-known member
Here are my 2 hammers. I think the sledge is a 4 pounder.
mritchie77
Well-known member
Picked up these two beryllium copper hammers at a flea market (along with these NOS 80's ratchets). Listed for $5 each. Doubt the seller knew what they were. First non-sparking tools I own. What kind of environment would a regular carpenters hammer need to be BeCu?
Mintgrun
Well-known member
I also picked up a couple of BeCu claw hammers this week. The 16 oz. hammer is marked BeCu and the 12 oz. says BERYLCO. Both hammers are marked H60.
The handles are both cracked, so I wiggled the wedge out of one of them, only to learn that it is BeCu as well. I guess that makes sense.
The handles are both cracked, so I wiggled the wedge out of one of them, only to learn that it is BeCu as well. I guess that makes sense.
Death Row Dave
Well-known member
I worked in transmission pipeline business for 36 years , we had 1 , 8in LPG process line . We had every type of non sparking , hand tool one could thing of on our trucks . We caught a contractor stealing and scraping many of them , once gone company would no replace any . I have one 2 lb ball peen hammer .
nadogail
Well-known member
Nonmagnetic tools were used by the crews of the Minesweepers built with Wooden Hulls.Picked up these two beryllium copper hammers at a flea market (along with these NOS 80's ratchets). Listed for $5 each. Doubt the seller knew what they were. First non-sparking tools I own. What kind of environment would a regular carpenters hammer need to be BeCu?
WisJim
Well-known member
A lot of non-sparking tools were used in World War 2 through Vietnam war in the Badger munitions factory near Sauk City, WI. It was a munitions plant making smokeless powder and others on over 7000 acres, and they would have used non-sparking versions of every imaginable tool that might be used in a factory or for construction. I remember driving past the plant in the 1950s and early 60s on our way to or from my grandparents in Northern Wisconsin and seeing Nike anti-aircraft rocket batteries visible from the highway, and the expanse of the plant buildings in the distance. It's pretty much all gone now.
Ksem89
Well-known member
Hey guys,
These were in a tool box I bought at an estate sale and was just curious on any info you all may have on these.
They all say Giller except for one, its blank.
What might these be made of? I have no need for them but am curious about them.
thanks!!
k
These were in a tool box I bought at an estate sale and was just curious on any info you all may have on these.
They all say Giller except for one, its blank.
What might these be made of? I have no need for them but am curious about them.
thanks!!
k
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Your Giller sockets look like they might be of bronze or even copper beryllium construction.
“If” your sockets are copper beryllium & someone decides to machine polish that material, caution is in order.
Source of the following visual machining operation chart:
“If” your sockets are copper beryllium & someone decides to machine polish that material, caution is in order.
Source of the following visual machining operation chart:
Literature and Technical Resources from Materion
Explore and download in-depth case studies, insightful white papers, detailed product information, and technical documents from Materion's advanced materials experts.
materion.com
Ksem89
Well-known member
Thanks!!! Yea I will not be doing any machining on these! Is there any way to figure out what they are made of, or is it just a best guess. I have found zero info on giller branded non spark stuff.Your Giller sockets look like they might be of bronze or even copper beryllium construction.
“If” your sockets are copper beryllium & someone decides to machine polish that material, caution is in order.
Source of the following visual machining operation chart:
Literature and Technical Resources from Materion
Explore and download in-depth case studies, insightful white papers, detailed product information, and technical documents from Materion's advanced materials experts.materion.com
k
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Unless you know someone in academia or industry with a spectrometer, there are no easy or unobtrusive surefire ways to distinguish bronze, brass, aluminum brass, copper, and beryllium copper. They can have different hues, but not always, especially over time and in different environmental conditions. They do have different masses, but you would need identical size samples and charts after you weighed the pieces, a method used with known slugs. A drop of HCL would cause a reaction if it was BeCu, Brass, or AlBr - essentially burning off the alloys, but not have any effect on pure Cu. But you're literally ruining a piece in a potentially hazardous way for little to no reason. Highly unlikely those are pure copper or brass. Most nonsparking tools that aren't marked are either BeCu or AlBr. Giller was almost exclusively known for military supply. Those were probably aerospace industry, 50s or 60s, open fuel/fume conditions, on flight lines or hangars. I realize you're curious, but knowing the exact composition isn't really necessary for using them or admiring their history.
four.cycle
Well-known member
Ksem89 said:
I'd be surprised if you were able to find any information on Giller with or without non-spark stuff.
Information on the company is virtually non-existent.
All we know for certain is that they sold exclusively to government/military contracts, and that Giller is found in abundance in the immediate vicinity of some U.S. Air Force bases.
Walkers
Well-known member
Here is the truck for all those beonze non sparking tools
rlitman
Well-known member
For a socket set, there are only two possible alloy families that look like copper that would be used. Pure copper is far too soft for sockets, and ordinary bronzes and brass are too brittle.
Beryllium copper, AKA BeCu is absolutely non-magnetic. Aluminum bronze, AKA Al-Br or aluminum brass will be perceptibly attracted to a strong magnet. It isn't strongly ferro-magnetic, but you can still feel the magnet pull. Both of these alloys are used in non-spark socket sets, though due to the magnetism, only BeCu is used when servicing MRI machines.
Under the "camron tools " thread message #12 I mentioned a Camron /Giller set that was advertised as Be Cu that I saw on ebay. The ebay link is dead but the set came in a little red box that looked exactly like the Berylco BeCu set I own. As stated earlier Giller and Camron were heavily linked to Military contracts. The color of your drive piece is usually the color I think of for BeCu and your sockets do look a little more AlBr but not sure that means anything.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Agreed, which I thought would be more obvious in my concluding statements about his set likely being BeCu or AlBr, and when I said that it was highly unlikely it was brass or copper. I was speaking more generically, in a wider context, about all these metals up front in my post.
Interesting. It's my understanding that AlBr is non-magnetic and my AlBr pieces do not respond to any magnets. May be a function of specific densities and specific magnet strengths, but AlBr is widely considered non-magnetic in the use cases I am aware of, anyway. I'll have to read further on this topic.
Ksem89
Well-known member
Yea that makes, I'm just trying find comps for these things, and there are none lol.
Thanks!
K
Ksem89
Well-known member
These are not at all magnetic, but yes seem harder than copper or brass. Appreciate the info!
K
rlitman
Well-known member
Try with a neodymium super magnet (like one from a hard drive). It will be weakly attracted, but you will feel it, I promise. Not enough to snap the magnet to it or anything like that, but there's attraction to AlBr, while BeCu is no more attracted to a magnet than plastic. I've got an AlBr socket set (featured in the green blow molded case way back in this thread in 2017) that taught me this one.
rlitman
Well-known member
Dupe - oops
kshillbilly
Active member
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2023
- Messages
- 36
?? Ever seen any sets for military use.
d42jeep
Well-known member
I found a 6” Ampco W-70 adjustable wrench at an estate sale today. After cleaning it carefully with brake cleaner it doesn’t seem to have been abused but there seems to be quite a bit of wear between the jaw and the adjusting wheel. After hitting it with some WD40 it seems to adjust adequately.
-Don
-Don
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d42jeep
Well-known member
I found a nice Ampco adjustable wrench recently at a sale. I have no plans to clean it!
-Don
-Don
rlitman
Well-known member
Nice. FYI, the AlBr stamp means it is an aluminum bronze alloy which does not contain beryllium, so it is perfectly safe to polish, should you choose to go down that route. I too wouldn't bother with that though.
59Sled
Well-known member
This was given too me a few months back.
I know its a drum wrench. And I do know not to do try and polish it. Safest to leave it be.
Anyone have an idea of the age on it?
I know its a drum wrench. And I do know not to do try and polish it. Safest to leave it be.
Anyone have an idea of the age on it?
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
It can't be older than 1946 - that's when the Registered Trademark symbol was adopted.
RTM
Well-known member
The Environmental Legacy of Beryllium Copper Production in Muhlenberg Township - GoReadingBerks / Reading Berks History
Beryllium copper production, has left a significant imprint on both industry and environment since its development in Muhlenberg Township.
goreadingberks.com
This may help, looks like name change around 1968
59Sled
Well-known member
That's a great article. Thank you for that. So we at least know they are newer than 1968 then.The Environmental Legacy of Beryllium Copper Production in Muhlenberg Township - GoReadingBerks / Reading Berks History
Beryllium copper production, has left a significant imprint on both industry and environment since its development in Muhlenberg Township.
This may help, looks like name change around 1968
Also wild how bad these are for you. When I first got them I wanted to polish them, thinking it was copper.
Then after some reading I realized its best to leave them alone.
RTM
Well-known member
I was originally thinking older than 1968, since I expected the other name to precede it. But then I was thinking shortening post from Beryllium to Beryl was not necessarily tied to merger. So confused.
RoninB4
Well-known member
-I know this is an older thread but this is the first time I've come across it. I only want to offer a couple of comments, mostly based upon one member that had previously wanted to polish a tool (presumably) made from BeCu. I know many other members here are chronic tool polishers. I've machined quite a bit of aluminum bronze alloys (slide gibs, wear plates, etc.) and a fair bit of beryllium copper alloys (EDM electrodes).
Aluminum bronze- Milling, drilling is not pleasant, tapping is not for the faint of heart. Can work harden to make HSS squeal like a pig.
Beryllium copper- Respiratory hazard and classed as a carcinogen. I wouldn't do anything to this that might throw suspended airborne particles. No wire brush, no sanding, no polishing. Cleaning with anything stiffer than a toothbrush is debatable. Will a one time incident affect you? Probably not but everybody has different levels of susceptibility to various materials, why take the risk or put others at risk? A former co-worker is greatly affected (on disability) and I'm sure that entire shop is contaminated due to the process used.
Aluminum bronze- Milling, drilling is not pleasant, tapping is not for the faint of heart. Can work harden to make HSS squeal like a pig.
Beryllium copper- Respiratory hazard and classed as a carcinogen. I wouldn't do anything to this that might throw suspended airborne particles. No wire brush, no sanding, no polishing. Cleaning with anything stiffer than a toothbrush is debatable. Will a one time incident affect you? Probably not but everybody has different levels of susceptibility to various materials, why take the risk or put others at risk? A former co-worker is greatly affected (on disability) and I'm sure that entire shop is contaminated due to the process used.
Stubby1743
Well-known member
I bought these two spanners last year. I found this post from "eddiest" in Feb 2021 (his only post).
I've looked at the Companies House website, and Telcom Metals Ltd. was incorporated in 1951 and dissolved in 2010.
"hi all
i just saw the post about beryllium copper tools from telcon metals uk, not sure if this post will be picked up as its over five years ago the first listing.
i worked in the telcon plant in crawley for 16 years, my first job was on the steam hammer (1976) we made a variety of tools, the blacksmith being very skilled at his job, my job was to hold the swages that formed the basic tools.
tools were also made by casting in patterns, i think we were the only manufacturer in the uk, but maybe wrong.
unfortunately the beryllium was deadly and i worked with people that lost their lives as a result of berilicosis, a debilitating respiratory condition that was attributed to the molten stage of manufacture, it was the fumes when inhaled were deadly and would stay dormant for many years until breathing became difficult, ultimately being fatal.
BECU needs super caution when working with it, i worked with BECU in multiple forms, generally at furnace temperature of about 850c from ingots rolled down to strip and billets rolled down to wire, neither of which was hazardous.
its been 45 years since i started there and im still ok, so you can work with BECU but you must be aware of the dangers."
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Was that in a Be environment, space lab, etc., or in a shop using BeCu, such as mold making???
RoninB4
Well-known member
-It was in a machine shop. We were contracted to make the molds for those square plastic milk crates. Traditional (Ram) EDM electrodes were being made of BeCu, fairly common back then. At first we were milling the multitude of intersecting cross channels but having limited success with end mills as the material seemed gummy and abrasive. Because of the size of the electrodes and the amount of material that needed removal the cut paths (CNC) were relatively long and the end mills displayed accelerated wear on the cutting edges. At some point the day man (I was the night man) decided to try a different approach because of the slow progress/problems with tolerances/surface finishes. I came in for shift and found that a high speed head had been mounted to the spindle holding a large abrasive wheel/disc. a relatively high pressure coolant pump was used to flush out the abraded material. Out of concern for the precision machine ways (not us) a plastic tarp was rigged to direct the swarf into the recycle tank. Since there was no wheel guard there was a heavy fog of coolant and particles that hung in the area, which also floated around the entire shop. I wasn't involved for the remaining 4 (of 6) electrodes as I left the company shortly after the grinding process began. The day man was a close friend of mine and he developed respiratory trouble that forced him on disability which ended his career. There's a lot of debate/data on developing CBD but there is no cure and it's often fatal.
Thanks. BeCu is only about 2-3% Be and 'usually' is not a problem. Worked around BeCu for a large part of my 50 years in the shop. Only problem I heard of was in Argonne lab in Chicago area using pure Be for space parts. Had to get real serious about ventilation of the dust. Hate it for your friend. Thanks for the update.