Odd question about rotating tires

[Ruahrc]

Got a bit of an odd situation here. To start things off, I rotated my tires when I changed the oil last, only about a month ago. Rears came up to the front and fronts back to the rears but crossed over.

Today, I get in my car to go to the store only to find that somehow my front right tire has gone totally flat. I don't really know how it happened the car drove fine a couple days prior.

Anyhow, at least this happened in my garage and not on the side of the road somewhere, and on the weekend and not when I need to drive to work. I swap the flat out for my spare and take the flat tire to Costco where I got the tires from. After looking at it they call and tell me the tire is not repairable (puncture was on the side I guess) and it has to be replaced. Well, it seems they don't make the exact model of tire I have on there anymore and supposedly they can't just swap out one tire they have to do it in pairs, so long story short I end up with 2 brand new tires and $7.50 in my pocket (yes, somehow through the warranty and exchange for the new tires, they owed me money).

Now onto my question: when they put the two new tires on, they put them on the rears and put the rear tires on the front because I guess that's what they do when replacing less than a full set of tires. So, if you are following along the tires on the front of the car now are the same tires that had been on the front before I rotated them. In effect my previous rotation has been undone.

So I want to ask, should I rotate the tires again, and put the old tires back on the rear of the car where they were before I had the flat? I'm just thinking I rotated the tires because the front tires had already been in the front for 6k miles, and now they are back on the front where they will be another 6k miles before I rotate them again, and if you simply exclude the fact that the rear tires are now brand new, the current tires on the front will have been there for 12k miles before being rotated again. Is there any real reason to put new tires on the rear? I figure the rear is where the tires wear the least (at least on a FWD car which this is) so why put the newest tires there?

In the end it probably does not matter much either way but I thought I would see what you guys think.

Thanks
Ruahrc

 

[jakemac]

If you live in the snow belt, put the new tires on the front for traction. If you live below the snow line then it shouldn't matter. Rotate them in the spring either way and you'll be back on track.

 

[383 240z]

When replacing a pair, I always put the new ones on the steering axle

 

[slip knot]

When replacing a pair, I always put the new ones on the steering axle

I was of this same school but the tire stores insist on putting the new tires on the rear. Just had a set of tires put on the wifes ride and they would not put them on the front.

 

[JJThrasher]

They should be on the drive axle imo. That's where they should wear the fastest.

 

[firworks]

I've seen most of the tire manufacturers suggest that you put the better tread tires on the rears because they consider understeer a safer failure than over steer. If you put more grip on the front and less on the back your rear end will be more likely to swing out on you, something not all drivers are good at handling. I don't know if any of that is true but it might be.

 

[Engine]

It seems to me that if the front tires were at the mileage to be rotated, then they should be rotated. I don't see why it would hurt to put the new tires on the front to start. If it were me, I would put the fronts back like they were before (after you had rotated them) and put the new ones on the front. I hope that makes sense.

 

[BMack37]

....

 

[bcradio]

New tires go on rear... However you should just rotate yours again and you'll be fine.

 

[kctyphoon]

Maybe they felt by doing that, the fronts would wear down quicker and you could replace those 2 with matching tires when they do... Then with the future new pair up front, they can catch up to the rears at some point..

So basically - next purchase would be 2 tires to match what you now have, then NEXT purchase after you could be back to a full set of 4 being replaced.. This is assuming the 2 you have left are at least halfway though their life..

 

[L.Cheapo]

New tires go on rear... However you should just rotate yours again and you'll be fine.

I've seen this before as well, and cant quite understand why. Is there a technical reason for this?

 

[firworks]

That is exactly what almost all shops that I know of do...I personally feel the fronts should be the newer tires, for braking mostly and steering(accident avoidance).

If your current tires are so bad that putting them on the front would reduce your cornering and braking capability you probably should replace them. Tires stay high performing a long way into their wear. You've gotta be pretty bad for them to be seriously impacted.

 

[BMack37]

.....

 

[White 99]

I've seen most of the tire manufacturers suggest that you put the better tread tires on the rears because they consider understeer a safer failure than over steer. If you put more grip on the front and less on the back your rear end will be more likely to swing out on you, something not all drivers are good at handling. I don't know if any of that is true but it might be.

I also believe this is true. New ones on the rear to increase traction in wet compared to older tires. Michelin has some information on their web site about this. If you have front wheel drive, after wet weather you might put them on drive axle to even out wear with the old ones. I might mix shorter intervals to even out wear. Dry traction should not be affected much by tread depth.

 

[ssdave]

As Firworks stated, the rear tires on a front wheel drive or all wheel drive should be the newest or most aggressive tread for safety. Quite the opposite from what most people instinctively want to do, which is to put the best traction tires on the drive axle.

The reason for this is to avoid having the car slide or spin 360 when you apply the brakes on snow or ice. The front tires will grip better, and hold, but the back will slide, allowing the car rear end to swing around, pivoting around the better hold traction of the front end. This type of car behavior is much more likely to propel you into the oncoming lane and create the most damaging accident, a front end collision.

On the other hand, if the rear has better tires, the front end will slide first, and will not steer as well. This can cause you to slide off the road in a curve, but often results in just a small change in path, not the huge change in path caused by a rear end slide. Consequently accidents are usually much less severe.

Tire manufacturers, through their experience, testing, and lawsuits, have found this to be true. So, they recommend replacing tires 4 at a time, or at the least, putting the best tires onto the rear on front wheel drive cars.

 

[CJM8515]

New tires always go on the rear for the same reasons firworks mentioned. You can always steer-even with shot tires. But if the rear slips out from under you and starts to slide..you arent gonna recover from that nearly as easily.

 

[Gotmayhem]

Maybe they felt by doing that, the fronts would wear down quicker and you could replace those 2 with matching tires when they do... Then with the future new pair up front, they can catch up to the rears at some point..

So basically - next purchase would be 2 tires to match what you now have, then NEXT purchase after you could be back to a full set of 4 being replaced.. This is assuming the 2 you have left are at least halfway though their life..

Hardly. The person that put the new tires on the rear just followed common sense and the recommendations of any tire manufacturer ever. Not every decision made by a "pro" is designed to milk money from a customer. Sometimes they actually just do their job.

 

[Here2Learn]

Look on manufacturer's websites. You can read to put the new ones on the rear.

 

[anndel]

Ever since getting my first car in 1985 and replacing 2 tires, the tire shop (Costco, Lex Brodie's, Sears, etc.) always put the new tires in the rear and I always had front wheel drive cars until I got my 4x4 pickup in 1993 and since then always bought 4 new tires. Their explanation was that the new tires always goes in the rear which I thought was lame.

 

[Ron_]

New tires on rear is correct. Under steer in snow/ice conditions for example is easy to detect, and is avoided by slowing down. Your back end suddenly going into a skid is harder to correct.

 

[ovrrdrive]

Skipped most of the replies so if this is a repeat move on.

IMO the only time it really matters where the new tires go is if the old one's are bald. If they have useable tread on them it's a non issue.

If one set is bald or nearing bald, the new tires go on the back. Always. Too much traction on the front causes spin outs and oversteer. Too much on the back and the car just doesn't want to turn in low traction scenarios and you have understeer which is more predictable and easier to correct - IE slow the hell down.

In the OP situation if it were me I would rotate the tires again. Unless your steering geometry is perfect you'll cup your tires if you leave them on the front too long.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I've seen most of the tire manufacturers suggest that you put the better tread tires on the rears because they consider understeer a safer failure than over steer. If you put more grip on the front and less on the back your rear end will be more likely to swing out on you, something not all drivers are good at handling. I don't know if any of that is true but it might be.

Nice to see this posted.



While most drivers want them on the front (drive/steering wheels on most cars), the safest place is in the back. Check out tire rack for tire related info like this. Clears up a lot of misconceptions.


Lift off oversteer is no joke, especially in a FWD car, and most drivers have no idea how to counter it. Additionally, one can feel hydroplaning in the steering wheel. The back axle is often not apparent until it starts to really slide.

If the front tires ****, put the good ones in the back anyways. The crappy front tires will keep their max speed down to a safe level. Of course, if you're going into winter with 4/32 all seasons....








For me, I see zero value in tire-rotation, as it only offers the promise of all 4 tires wearing out at the same time. By replacing mine in pairs, I get fresh date codes and compound more often. I find the number one complaint about handling/ride/noise with tires, is from old worn out compound tires. Problem is "they're still good", because they have 7/32 of tread.

YMMV

 

[rlitman]

If you live in the snow belt, put the new tires on the front for traction.

Do that if you like driving backwards from oversteer on ice.

As Firworks stated, the rear tires on a front wheel drive or all wheel drive should be the newest or most aggressive tread for safety. Quite the opposite from what most people instinctively want to do, which is to put the best traction tires on the drive axle.

The reason for this is to avoid having the car slide or spin 360 when you apply the brakes on snow or ice. The front tires will grip better, and hold, but the back will slide, allowing the car rear end to swing around, pivoting around the better hold traction of the front end. This type of car behavior is much more likely to propel you into the oncoming lane and create the most damaging accident, a front end collision.

On the other hand, if the rear has better tires, the front end will slide first, and will not steer as well. This can cause you to slide off the road in a curve, but often results in just a small change in path, not the huge change in path caused by a rear end slide. Consequently accidents are usually much less severe.

Tire manufacturers, through their experience, testing, and lawsuits, have found this to be true. So, they recommend replacing tires 4 at a time, or at the least, putting the best tires onto the rear on front wheel drive cars.

+1 Here's someone who understands.

 

[G-Ram]

Personally, on fwd vehicles, the new tires go on the front. I'd rather oversteer than understeer.


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[G-Ram]

Do that if you like driving backwards from oversteer on ice.

Drive to conditions


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[fordnut85]

There are reasons for it, try putting studded tires on the front only of a front wheel drive car and you will know the difference real quick. That being said and assuming the old tires were most likely in good condition since the rear were still under warranty you should be ok. With our litigious society anymore more shops have adopted a hard a fast set of procedures they follow to prevent a law suit. Rotate your tires back and be on your way.

 

[rlitman]

Drive to conditions

True, but conditions change, often suddenly and unexpectedly. It's better to be prepared all around.
Ever heard of black ice?

 

[G-Ram]

Ever heard of black ice?

Yeah, I live in northern Canada and run back and forth on the shittiest part of Highway 17 between Thunder Bay, Ontario and the Manitoba boarder.

That being said, I've always ran good winter snow tires on the front of my winter beaters, and then whatever else I could find for the back. Don't drive like a jackass, and there's nothing to worry about. I know what to expect, so there are no surprises.


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[Skin]

Personally, on fwd vehicles, the new tires go on the front. I'd rather oversteer than understeer.

No, you wouldn't. Traction loss on the rear is virtually undetectable until it begins to happen. Not to mention anyone who has driven in snow and ice knows you don't have to be turning much at all to start sliding so its not just a matter of oversteer vs understeer but having as much traction as possible on the back at all times. Tire companies have wasted a lot more time and money on this than you or I have.

 

[G-Ram]

No, you wouldn't. Traction loss on the rear is virtually undetectable until it begins to happen. Not to mention anyone who has driven in snow and ice knows you don't have to be turning much at all to start sliding so its not just a matter of oversteer vs understeer but having as much traction as possible on the back. Tire companies have wasted a lot more time and money on this than you or I have.

Not looking to get this thread locked, but... I simply gave MY personal preference. Again, I drive in ice and snow conditions 6+ months of the year, logging about 2000km a month, I know what it's all about. Lastly, I never claimed to know more than the tire companies. It's just my preference, I'm sorry you don't agree with it. It works for me, so that's what I do, simple as that


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[Skin]

Not looking to get this thread locked, but... I simply gave MY personal preference. Again, I drive in ice and snow conditions 6+ months of the year, logging about 2000km a month, I know what it's all about. Lastly, I never claimed to know more than the tire companies. It's just my preference, I'm sorry you don't agree with it. It works for me, so that's what I do, simple as that


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Opinions are cool but yours is wrong. Its not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing but that of fact. Normally wouldn't care but this is safety we're talking about.

You're completely entitled to your opinion/personal preference but once you start telling others it becomes fair game for criticism.

 

[G-Ram]

Opinions are cool but yours is wrong. Its not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing but that of fact. Normally wouldn't care but this is safety we're talking about.



You're completely entitled to your opinion/personal preference but once you start telling others it becomes fair game for criticism.

I feel safer running my cars how I do. My original post stated JUST that. No suggestions of what OP should do to his vehicle. Again, I'm so sorry you disagree, but that doesn't make me wrong. I'd personally rather not understeer head on into oncoming traffic. I had a buddy die last year because of that. We don't have fancy 4 lane highways with jersey barrier dividers or whatever in these parts. I just take it easy with my good tires on the front. Thanks for your concern though.


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[ssdave]

Not looking to get this thread locked, but... I simply gave MY personal preference. Again, I drive in ice and snow conditions 6+ months of the year, logging about 2000km a month, I know what it's all about. Lastly, I never claimed to know more than the tire companies. It's just my preference, I'm sorry you don't agree with it. It works for me, so that's what I do, simple as that


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That is working for you as you have extreme experience in driving on icy roads, and are underdriving conditions deliberately, because of your experience. The better traction tires on the front will allow you to drive without getting stuck, but you have to use judgement to keep your speeds down.

Your advice would eventually kill most of the drivers that we have in the US, who drive in this type of extreme conditions a handful of times a year, and don't have the exposure to reach your level of experience.

For most drivers, who do not routinely drive on snow and ice, and who drive in varying conditions from clear road to black ice with a front wheel drive, the best traction tires should be on the rear. Putting the more aggressive tires on the front will seem to give you better traction, and allow you to confidently drive faster. What they will also allow you to do is to overdrive conditions without understeer warning you that you are exceeding safe traction speed. When the speed and inertia from a turn or bump exceed the rear tire traction, you will spin out, with essentially no warning. Much safer to have the lesser traction tires on the front, and have oversteer slippage warn you when you are overdriving conditions, and allow you to slow down safely BEFORE catastrophic out of control slippage occurs.

As you state, it is your preference to drive the way you are. However, it is not in the best interest of the majority of drivers on the road to advise that course for them, as it is definitely and verifyably not the best/safest way to place tires on a vehicle from an overall road safety perspective.

 

[bcradio]

I feel safer running my cars how I do. My original post stated JUST that. No suggestions of what OP should do to his vehicle. Again, I'm so sorry you disagree, but that doesn't make me wrong. I'd personally rather not understeer head on into oncoming traffic. I had a buddy die last year because of that. We don't have fancy 4 lane highways with jersey barrier dividers or whatever in these parts. I just take it easy with my good tires on the front. Thanks for your concern though.


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Sorry, but you are wrong.

You're driving on borrowed time.

 

[G-Ram]

*snip*



Your advice would eventually kill most of the drivers that we have in the US, who drive in this type of extreme conditions a handful of times a year, and don't have the exposure to reach your level of experience.

*snip*

I didn't give any advice, simply stated my preference with no suggestion of what is right/wrong, safe/unsafe. Otherwise, I agree with everything you posted, very intelligent response. Experience and trying different combinations have definitely driven my preference of tire setups. Up until 3 years ago, I couldn't even afford 2 new tires, let alone 4. So I learned to get by with what I had.

You're driving on borrowed time.

Thanks but I'll be just fine Besides, does New Mexico even get snow??



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[firworks]

I didn't give any advice, simply stated my preference with no suggestion of what is right/wrong, safe/unsafe. Otherwise, I agree with everything you posted, very intelligent response. Experience and trying different combinations have definitely driven my preference of tire setups. Up until 3 years ago, I couldn't even afford 2 new tires, let alone 4. So I learned to get by with what I had.




Thanks but I'll be just fine Besides, does New Mexico even get snow??



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There's a mountainy part that gets it at least. I had to check when I did my SS because my SS was also from New Mexico and thought it'd be fun to send him some snow but didn't want to look dumb if he lived in the skiing region and had more snow than us!

 

[Jon.R]

I'm another one that lives in northern ontario . That drives hwy 11 , 17 and on my fwd drive car the newer snow tires always go on the front of a fwd vechile . We get very deep snow up here so you need that traction . And most everyone up here knows to slow down in icy conditions and knows how to correct an oversteer condition on icy roads . I worked in a school transportation fleet garage for 4 years and we had 30 fwd vans that we always rotated that better thread tires to the front.

 

[dirtydogintex]

my road vehicles in SE Texas - paved roads, monsoons, no ice/snow

best tires in rear, tire rotation of side to side only every 6-8k, tire inflation (cold) much less than max rating

 

[unslow1]

Wow! There are a lot of straight up rude trolls in this thread. This will be locked soon. I live in IL with lots of snow and ice. The new tires on my RWD go in the back. The FWD get the new in the front. Generally I buy 4 at at time and rotate so this isn't as much of an issue. I don't know any one around here that does it differently.

 

[hangfirew8]

The purveyors of one-size-fits-all knowledge have decreed that all oversteering conditions are unrecoverable, always, every time.

-HF