Old Fart Cart?

[Jeff Ivers]

Has anyone here designed their own old fart cart - otherwise known as mobility carts? I see these motorized chairs in use in assisted living facilities and have seen them at swap meets. Would like to do one myself. What did you use for powertrain? Source for motor, transmission, etc?

 

[jsaw]

I was at an event one time, and there was an old guy. riding around on a cart that he built using parts from an old lawn mower, He had a starter motor powered by a battery with chains and sprockets connected to drive the axle.

 

[NWphotog]

I was at an event one time, and there was an old guy. riding around on a cart that he built using parts from an old lawn mower, He had a starter motor powered by a battery with chains and sprockets connected to drive the axle.

Links not working. Sounds like a interesting build!

 

[jsaw]

Not sure why I cant get the pictures to attach, might try later

 

[jsaw]

try again.

 

[BioNerd]

Took me a while to attach those "leaf blowers"!


-To be everything, be nobody.

 

[Jeff Ivers]

I have done some research on the web concerning using starter motors for motivation and have found very mixed reviews - concerns about bushings instead of bearings, overheating, etc. Anyone know of other motors that may be available cheap and be better suited?

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Treadmill motors? I believe they are 12V dc. They use a "magic" board to convert 120V ac to 12 V dc so you may be able to hook them up directly with a rheostat for throttle control.

Richard

 

[NWphotog]

try again.

Thanks for posting those.

 

[b-body-bob]

Back when I was interested in Battlebots they used wheelchair motors. You might be able to salvage most of what you need from a used chair. Unless that takes away too much of the challenge of it all

 

[steel 35]

You may look into the bicycle wheel hub motors, I rode one a few years ago and they are pretty sweet; I keep thinking about one.

 

[Hghgrad]

I've been looking at these for another purpose. It's mostly going to be cheaper to spend $300 on a chair and take it apart than it would be to buy the motors, controller and batteries.

Depending on how you're looking to build, you could use drill motors.

 

[kbs2244]

I see used electric chairs for less than $100.00 on the auction sites all the time.

 

[Vegaman_Dan]

Used chairs with dead batteries litter Craigslist regularly. Pick up a couple and you can hack away. You'll already have the controllers, motors, wheels and so on. Add a couple of deep cycle RV batteries and you'll be in business.

I always figured if I ever had to use a wheel chair, I'd add a roll bar with lights, cup holders, small winch, and other accessories. If you're going to be stuck in one, make it worth your time.

 

[Jeff Ivers]

Thanks for the comments and info so far. Keep them coming! I will be looking into the wheel hub motors. I have been hounding CL for a couple of months without finding any used chairs to acquire. I do not need or anticipate needing a mobility chair for a while. I am wanting to build something to take to large swap meets and to use to tow the downhill racer back to the top of the hill. Not wanting to spend a hugh amount of money.

 

[Sureshot]

I worked for a guy who built a buggy out of a rototiller drive. Took the tines off and put on wheels. It was belt driven so when you pushed the pedal it tightened the belt and when released the worm drive would stop it on a dime. May also work well with electric.

 

[KRB52]

I was at a recent swap meet/old tractor meet where some were ridding older lawn tractors around; some pulling a wagon with the leather front seats out of some old land yacht (complete with 6-way power adjustments, just not hooked up). Another two had old Model A or T's cut down to homemade tractors. Of course, these would be better suited for outdoors use.

 

[toomanytoyzz]

Took me a while to attach those "leaf blowers"!


-To be everything, be nobody.

I'd love to ride that thing into the local "cotton head" restaurant asking about the early bird specials.

 

[cnttxmdc]

Used chairs with dead batteries litter Craigslist regularly. Pick up a couple and you can hack away. You'll already have the controllers, motors, wheels and so on. Add a couple of deep cycle RV batteries and you'll be in business.

Before he died, by granddad replaced his with a couple Walmart special lawmower batteries. No ideal, but it worked in a pinch, and was the cheapest option.... which is exactly why he did it.

 

[Playwme]

I found an almost complete mobility scooter at the dump a couple months ago. Hooked up a couple of batteries, figured out that the display panel was throwing a fault code, pushed in the plug for the throttle control and away it went. 24 volt with onboard charger and runs like a champ. It's rated to carry about 450 pounds too.

 

[willy3486]

I have done some research on the web concerning using starter motors for motivation and have found very mixed reviews - concerns about bushings instead of bearings, overheating, etc. Anyone know of other motors that may be available cheap and be better suited?

Back when I was a teenager I use to build robots. I built a life size R2D2 model. I used old PM magnet 12 volt motors for windshield wipers. The types with magnets not coils for magnets. I would use 2 of them with one on each size. I used lawn mower wheels for each one. The ones I used I could usually find on old 60s Ford trucks and sometimes AMC cars. I wonder if bigger vehicles like semi trucks could have bigger ones. I think it would run fine even with 100 pounds in it. Now if it will work with a scooter I don't know but its a decent motor for applications.

 

[oldtractors]

I saw a guy once at a swap meet with an old wheel chair mounted on top of a set of tracks from a Honda walk behind snow blower. Powered by a gas engine. It was cool. And it would make Dr. Loveless proud.

 

[toomanytoyzz]

Back when I was a teenager I use to build robots. I built a life size R2D2 model. I used old PM magnet 12 volt motors for windshield wipers. The types with magnets not coils for magnets. I would use 2 of them with one on each size. I used lawn mower wheels for each one. The ones I used I could usually find on old 60s Ford trucks and sometimes AMC cars. I wonder if bigger vehicles like semi trucks could have bigger ones. I think it would run fine even with 100 pounds in it. Now if it will work with a scooter I don't know but its a decent motor for applications.

Let's see some pics. I'm a Star Wars junkie.

 

[toymn6366]

I saw a guy last weekend at the Dawsonville Moonshine Festival he had a old scooter around that he had but a b/s gas motor on even had wheelie bars on it would have got some pics but he was gone before I could get camera out

 

[Flybye]

I think I'd prefer the turbocharged bar stool.

 

[Jeff Ivers]

Continuing to sporadically research this idea. Found instructions on how to rewire a starter motor so it can be reversible. Then I stumbled across this:



which is an AmpFlow P40-350 brushed electric motor that is already reversible. Anybody have any experience with these? Are they best run at 12, 24 or 36 volts? What are the tradeoffs, besides battery weight?

 

[NHBandit]

Here's mine.

 

[Mr.N]

Continuing to sporadically research this idea. Found instructions on how to rewire a starter motor so it can be reversible.

You don't want to use a starter motor or stater solenoid a, look into winch motors and continuous duty solenoids.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I actually own a mobility business and sell scooters and power chairs. If you are doing a 3 wheel scooter you might be able to improvise a drivetrain, but it will likely be easier and better to source a used scooter to part out. Power chairs are a whole different animal, so I would avoid using one of those as a base.

The drive motor and controls are actually pretty reliable, but the batteries only last 1-2 years depending on how much you use them and your charging habits. I wouldn't use a lawn mower battery from Walmart as they are the wrong type of battery (made for starting vs. continual use). A pair of proper batteries can be had off of the internet for around $100 and a charger can be had on ebay for about $20.

In summary, you will likely spend 3x as much trying to improvise an electrical drivetrain/controls than if you just purchase a used scooter with dead batteries for $100-$300. People will dump old scooters with dead batteries because a lot of mobility companies will charge upwards of $300 for a pair of batteries.

 

[williammcneely]

Call this guys fabricator...
good video, crappy music, http://cdllife.com/2013/video/video-the-worlds-most-extreme-grandpa/

 

[Jeff Ivers]

Call this guys fabricator...
good video, crappy music, http://cdllife.com/2013/video/video-the-worlds-most-extreme-grandpa/

Great video - wonder what that guy is running - a snowmobile engine?

 

[R.Anderson]

Treadmill motors? I believe they are 12V dc. They use a "magic" board to convert 120V ac to 12 V dc so you may be able to hook them up directly with a rheostat for throttle control.

Richard

All the tread mill motors I have and seen are 120vdc powered via PWM or SCR boards 120VAC to 90-120VDC

 

[Jeff Ivers]

Well, my old fart cart project took a step forward over the weekend. I acquired a pair of Hoveround motors for $40. My understanding is the two heavy leads to each motor are for power, 2 addtional leads are for some kind of speed sensor, and 2 activate a brake when no power is applied and release the brake when power is applied. Supposedly when the voltage on the two heavy leads is reversed, the motor reverses.



Now, I need to acquire a wiring diagram. So far, I cannot locate one on the WWW. Supposedly the wiring diagram is on the carts. Does anyone out there have one of these they could take a picture of (the wiring diagram) and post on here? I would really appreciate the help.

My goals for the cart are:
seat to sit on
bed behind seat for ice chest and parts, probably tilt to allow access to motor
and batteries
rear wheel drive
steerable front wheels with steering wheel and steering rack
foot throttle control
switch for forward/neutral/reverse

I am looking for a suitable steering rack - preferably used and under $50. Any sources?

 

[nahuebsch82]

 

[Jeff Ivers]

Thanks to G_P on another thread (http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=305253), I now have the wiring sorted out on my pair of Hoveround motors.

Obviously, because I want to use this cart at swap meets (many of which prohibit gas driven vehicles), I want to use electric power.

My revised goals are:
seat to sit on
cargo bed (probably tilt)
"trailer" hitch
steering wheel (no joystick operation!)
forward/reverse switch
foot pedal for "gas"
lights
max speed at least 4 MPH
keyed on/off switch
drink holder
handle 8 degree grade

The motors I acquired (when installed in a Hoveround MPV5) are rated at
300 lb cargo capacity
4 MPH
12 mi range

I think I would like to use 10 inch diameter tires instead of the 9" that come on the original scooter. This would increase top speed to about 4.5 MPH with some loss of torque.

My main areas of research are:
1) find "mag" type wheels that will fit .75 shaft with 3/16 key that can have 10" diameter tires
2) determine what type of pwm controller to acquire to handle the motors
3) research battery options
4) find a "foot pedal" that will work with the controller

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Jeff Ivers]

After getting the motor issues sorted, it was time to think about wheels, hubs and spindles. This has turned out to be an adventure. Due to lack of sucess scrounging, I ended up ordering some 10" wheels set up for robots, go-kart front spindles, and go-kart hubs.

This is a picture of what I acquired. After a lot of research, I was unable to find mag type wheels that would fit hubs that would fit the motor shaft.

This is a picture of the front hub on the spindle showing it fits fine.

This is a picture of the motor shaft.

This shows the rear hub on the motor shaft - obviously too long as it covers the threads for the nut to hold the hub on the shaft.

This shows the wheel sitting on the front hub. Obviously, the center hole has to be enlarged to allow the wheel to seat on the hub.

This shows the wheel sitting on the rear hub. Problems here, too. Each of the four bolt holes will have to be extended just slightly toward the circumference of the wheel to allow the wheel to properly seat on the bolts.

I started to modify the rear hubs with a reciprocating saw, but ended up switching to my chop saw.

 

[steel 35]

(Swap meet) only in my dreams

 

[Jeff Ivers]

I have made some progress on my OFC. The rear hubs have been shortened, the front axles have been shortened, the front wheels have had the center hole diameter increased, and all the wheels have had the mounting holes extended toward the rim so they would fit on the hubs.

Here is a picture of the modified wheels and hubs.

This is a picture of the rear motor assembly with the wheels mounted.

A side view of the same.

I have continued researching the electronics issue and decided to order a Q4D Pro150 controller, plunge potentiometer, and battery gauge from Q4D in England. I hope this goes well, as it is my first time ordering from overseas.

Tomorrow, I start on the chassis.

 

[Jeff Ivers]

After prepping the wheels, spindles, and hubs, I spent a couple of evenings drawing plans for the chassis (as far as I can at this time, as I will have to do some mock-up to finalize things).

I have now made some progress on the chassis.

The first thing I did was to make a new angle iron piece to tie the motors together, increasing the track to about 25.75 inches. Maximum design dimensions were determined by researching scooter carriers that mount on hitch receivers, as that is my planned way for transport.

Next I welded up the 4 pieces of metal to form the center section of the chassis sides and then bolted it to the motor along with the back section of the chassis side (short piece to right of motor). I did this so I could scribe the exact location for welding these pieces together.

This pic shows both side sections of the chassis welded together and bolted to the motors.

Here I have added cross pieces in front and behind the motors and clamped them to the side assemblies. I plan to remove the entire assembly from the motors and weld these in place tomorrow.

This pic shows the front section of the chassis laying on the floor in the position where it will be attached.

Also, today I received my controller from England. I will post pics of this and rationale for selection later.

 

[Kensgarage]

Get with the times. Sorry about the cackling B00B. It's all I could find quickly