Old School Post and Beam

[Fury5]

Howdy yall. Just discovered this site. What a treasure trove of ideas! I am two years into building my dream garage+shop. It is connected to an old barn from the 1850's which is also getting a bit of restoration attention in the process. If I had found this site sooner I could have avoided a lot of mistakes. Thought I would post up a few pictures of what I started with and where I am now. Time permitting I will share some photos of the work done in between.

This is what I started with and worked in for ten years: An old single story, dirt floor, unheated shed about 18x25' with 20 amp service. It was cramped, cold, dirty and dark. But its what I had ...

 

[ghnl]

I hope you follow through with more pictures! We likes pictures!

 

[Fury5]

Here are a couple photos of what I have now. The two main bays are each 25x16' and the small bay at the end is 17x14'. Basic plan is to use the first floor for parking and working on the junkers in the fleet, while the second floor will be used for wood working. The second floor of the new barn connects to a newly-built loft space of the same height in the old barn that will serve as overflow space for wood working. The ground floor is 6" slab with plumbing for radiant heat (not yet hooked up), and the upstairs is tongue and groove 2x6" planks. Ceiling height on the first floor is approximately 11', while the second floor is open all the way to the top. Lots of natural light from the bank of windows at the top and the ones on the front will open in summer for ventilation. The structure was clad with 6" styrofoam SIPs on the walls and 10" styrofoam SIPs on the roof. Still a lot of work to do on the inside (heating and electrical service, painting, etc), some finish work to do on the doors, another coat of paint in the spring (still haven't decided on a color) and other sundry tasks, but after two years I am starting to see the finish line.

Here are a couple of pics of the outside:

 

[930dreamer]

Very nice, any pic of the new interior?

 

[Fury5]

Here are a few pics of the interior on the first floor:

 

[Fury5]

And here are a few shots of the upstairs. I left the middle section of the middle bay open to let light down from above, give the first floor an open feel, and provide ample head room for a lift. You can see, I still have a lot of work to do on the interior.

 

[Fury5]

A few pictures of the "raising." We cheated a bit and used a crane to raise each bent.

 

[NASMAN]

A few pictures of the "raising." We cheated a bit and used a crane to raise each bent.

Great work. Nice to see your use of post and beam and the fact that you know the terminology. Also like that you did SIP's. Good job, more pics please.

 

[wornoutoldman]

Very cool workshop. More photos of the Healy please.

 

[colt zantop]

That is one cool barn! I love the exposed beams inside! keep those pics coming!

 

[Vernmotor]

Very cool I really Like that !

 

[seth928]

nice nice......looking forward to more!!!

 

[Fury5]

Thanks for all the comments. This has been a long time goal in the planning and execution and its great to have found a place to share it with folks who have the same "obsession" (as my patient wife calls it).

Here are a few more pics from the exterior construction phase. They should give a little more sense of the frame and SIPs as they were attached to the frame. I had never built anything with SIPs before. I highly recommend them. They aren't cheap to buy, but they install really quickly, provide a fantastic seal and have very high R-values. Hopefully they will pay for themselves in savings in heating costs. I had these SIPs custom made by an outfit in Vermont that can make them pretty much as wide or as long as you want. That meant we could have them made long enough to attach them directly to the timbers at the top and bottom of each frame girt without the need for additional framing to support the SIPs. Also meant that the frame could be left fully exposed. I just couldn't stand the thought of building a beautiful frame and then covering it up with drywall.











There is one drawback to the SIPs. They are HEAVY. Too heavy for one man to move around. We used a lift to raise them up onto the roof and the second floor. One piece of advice: if you are using SIPs on a timber frame, use some sort of sacrificial spacer between the SIP and the beams. That way you have room to run wiring, plumbing, etc., behind the beams. Lots of guys cut channels in the SIPs for wire runs, but it seemed to me that would defeat the purpose and compromise the structural integrity of the SIPs. I used 1x6" boards but wish I had used 2x4"s now that all is said and done.

Thanks for looking.

Richard

 

[hobbitss]

And here are a few shots of the upstairs. I left the middle section of the middle bay open to let light down from above, give the first floor an open feel, and provide ample head room for a lift. You can see, I still have a lot of work to do on the interior.

Is that an Austin Healy 3000 or a MGA???

 

[Fury5]

Someone with eagle eyes noticed and asked for more pictures of the Austin- Healey parked inside in one of the pictures. It's a 1954 BN-1. It was my first car, at least the first one that wasn't borrowed from my parents. I bought it in college in 1981 and it was my daily driver for about six years. Then I put it in storage in North Carolina when I moved to New York in 1989. At the time, I never thought I would end up north of the Mason-Dixon line long term. But here I am now. Finally pulled it out of storage two years ago and had it mechanically restored. Runs great! But still has the same ratty interior and wears the paint job I did myself in a body work class at the local community college in 1985. Not sure the term "Rat Rod" is supposed to be applied to old English cars, but you get the idea. These aren't the best pictures, but better shots will have to wait until Spring!





Cheers,

Richard

 

[Fury5]

Found a couple more pictures of the frame before the joists were laid in. The frame was so nice I almost didn't want to cover it. It stood like this for about a month while we were waiting for the SIPs and and tin for the roof to be delivered. I met a lot of neighbors, which was nice, as a result. Folks driving by would slow down, back up, pull in to the driveway and introduce themselves to take a look at the barn. Enjoy.

 

[Nighttrain]

What an undertaking, very neat!

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

Fury5, welcome to GJ! What a great project to thread on, I hope you keep us posted with plenty of pictures and details. That 1850's barn must have needed some serious TLC; got any pictures of that work? SIPs and timber frame seems to be a great marriage. What inspired you to go that route? Is this your first effort at timber frame carpentry? We'd enjoy reading every detail you'd care to share with us!

 

[collmorgen]

How about some photos of the "loft" in the barn?

 

[schwalby]

That looks awesome. Is it a recycled barn that was moved or were just parts used?

 

[Fury5]

Thanks for all the kind words, yall.

I haven't figure out yet how to use the "quote" option, but I wanted to answer everybody's questions. I had some experience timber framing from the restoration work I have done over the years on the old barn, but this was my first effort at new construction as opposed to replacing old posts sills that had rotted over the last 150 years. I had most of the work on the new barn professionally done or overseen so I didn't screw it up.

I went with a timber frame for a couple of reasons. First, I just really like it. I like the look and feel of strength that really only comes from looking up at a 25 foot long timber with a 10x18" cross section! Plus, the old adjoining barn is a massive timber frame structure and I wanted to the new one to match. Second, it turned out to be cheaper (putting aside the cost of the SIPs) than building the same size structure with sticks and/or steel. The timber is all new. It was locally logged and sawed by a nearby mill and that helped to keep the cost down.

I toyed with the idea of using reclaimed timbers from an older structure. I have a world of respect for people who save old buildings. Old barns often come up or sale in the area with ads like "Old barn for sale, 60x40, $6,000, you remove." But I resisted the urge. Most folks I talked to said that could turn out to be more of a headache than anything else and I tend to believe that. I have done a project like that before. Many years ago my father, grandfather and I dismantled and saved a log cabin built sometime in the late 1700s that had been our family's first homeplace in NC. (My great aunt was gonna have it torn down even though it was still perfectly structurally sound!). Taking it apart was far harder than putting it back together!

 

[Fury5]

Here are a couple more pictures of the interior, including one of the "loft" in the old barn.

This is a picture looking into the second floor of the new barn from the "loft" in the old barn:


This picture shows what the loft looks like as you walk into it from the new barn:



This shows the loft as it sets raised up above the main floor level in the old barn. The floor was raised to make it level with the second floor of the new barn.



Here is another shot of the stairs. Each of the treads was made from solid 10"x6" timbers and mortised into the stringers which are also 10"x6" timbers. There is not a single nail anywhere in the staircase. They are pretty and sturdy but you can forget about carrying a sheet of plywood up them! Too narrow. I figure most equipment and lumber will be moved into the second floor through the loft in the old barn.



Here is a picture taken as we were laying down the flooring on the second floor:



Last, here is a picture taken from the second floor looking up through the beams that shows the light coming in from the upper row of windows:



That's it for tonight. Thanks for looking and for all the words of encouragement.

Richard

 

[Tarnished]

WOW!!!
Beautiful! Amazing detail on the end post. I wouldn't want to ever leave. could look at the inside all day. What did you use for siding on the old barn, and did you have to reside the whole thing?

 

[santagary]

Fantastic work....just wondering if your workmen were amish. Whoever they were, they were true craftsmen. I could sit and stare at those joint details for a long, long time. How do you plan on using the space...looks like enough for a hotel!

 

[Fury5]

Tarnished -

Thanks for the compliments! I used plain wood siding for the old barn. I replaced the wall adjoining the new barn and on the front (south facing) wall of the old barn. The siding on the north and east walls is still in ok shape. Not sure what it is called elsewhere, but around here, the particular type of siding is called "novelty siding." I have no idea why it is called that but it is a fairly common profile on barns and old houses in the Hudson Valley region. It is dado-ed like ship-lap at the bottom and scalloped at the top.

Here are a couple of pictures of the new siding going on the old barn:



This one shows the view from the inside looking out.

 

[Fury5]

Santagary -

Thanks! The guy who did most of the work isn't Amish but he is a true craftsman. He did about 75% of the work single-handed, including cutting and assembling the frame and the stairs. We used a much bigger crew to raise the frame. The "big" crew included me, the framer's son, and the crane operator! From time to time, his son helped with hoisting the SIPs, but for the most part, the SIPs were lifted with the JLG lift.

It turned out to be a pretty big building. But most of that size in its height (close to 36' at the peak of the roof above the clerestory windows), but the foot print is not that much bigger than a three or four car garage. I am sure that year from now I will think its too small! But ain't that always the way it goes?

Cheers.

 

[cletus66]

Great pictures !!! I would love to build a house like that.

 

[DoyleDee]

That is awesome!

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

Fury5, keep those pictures and text coming; they are most welcome! The sense of space shown by those interior shots is indeed impressive; has your wife seen the 'light' and come to appreciate the wisdom of your choice? lol

I think you ought to give props to your builder (and his son) for doing an outstanding job! I'm pretty sure he wouldn't mind a little free advertizing here on GJ. Take a look at http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10752
if you have a chance; Bull may be a 'kindred spirit' in regards to timber frame barns.

 

[Fury5]

Fury5, keep those pictures and text coming; they are most welcome! The sense of space shown by those interior shots is indeed impressive; has your wife seen the 'light' and come to appreciate the wisdom of your choice? lol

I think you ought to give props to your builder (and his son) for doing an outstanding job! I'm pretty sure he wouldn't mind a little free advertizing here on GJ. Take a look at http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10752
if you have a chance; Bull may be a 'kindred spirit' in regards to timber frame barns.

Omphaloskeptic -

The timber framer's name is Patrick Smith. He is based in Broadalbin, NY (a bit northwest of Albany). Happy to share his contact info with anyone who wants to contact him.

I had a chance to read through Bull's thread on his Geobarn. Very interesting hybrid approach to framing. That building is certainly beautiful.

Thanks.

 

[Fury5]

Got a little bit more work done over the long weekend. Nothing terribly exciting but moving slowly toward making the space more useable.

This weekend's project involved building a landing and stairs to provide access between the "loft" area and the main floor in the old barn. Here are a couple shots of the loft area. It is 43" higher than the main floor. The old flooring and joists were torn out and the raised "loft" was built at a height equal to the second floor in the new barn. (I think I posted a shot of the walkthru between the old and the new barns in an earlier post.)





Here are two shots of the "landing." It isn't anchored by anything other than it's own weight. The plan is to be able to move it if I ever need to. Fairly simple construction: 4x4" posts with shoulder joints, 2x8" joists around the top edge, 2x4" runners for stability at the bottom, and 2x6" tongue and groove flooring.



Here are a couple shots of the stair construction. Nothing fancy. Just stringers (rough cut 2x8") with cleats (screwed and glued in place). This was the first set of stairs that I laid out by myself. A mix of old and new technology, I calculated the run and the rise with my iPhone calculator and then used an old fashioned square and carpenter's pencil! Happy to say all the angles worked out fine.



And finally, a shot of the finished stairs getting the once over from the resident building inspectors! Mom is happy they no longer have to climb the ladder to follow their dad up into the loft. But after 10 minutes of playing on the stairs, the went back to the ladder. Go figure.


Thanks for looking.

Richard

 

[draider]

You have some beautiful buildings there. Any updates?

 

[KULIWOBBY]

Wow! Lots and lots of hours in that one. Looks good! Keep up with pics.

 

[HiHoSilver]

Great build! I am sure have been busy, any updates, keep the information flowing

 

[Mavawreck]

This build even had my fiancee drooling. Beautiful work. What do you plan on using the upstairs area for? I've thought about how nice that would be for office space but worried about the fumes and dust from the work shop making it less feasible. I spied a Grand Wagoneer next to the brit.

 

[Kevin54]

Very nice build indeed. I for one am glad to see some people restoring their old barns instead of letting them deteriorate to shambles. Looking forward to any updates.

 

[Jvvmusme]

Great barn. Plus the Austin Healey. Great both

 

[horizontallyopposed]

What a great building!

 

[nonhog]

Only problem I'd have is just looking around checking out how cool it is and not get anything done.
Seriously nice build!

 

[bacpacker]

I had missed this thread. What a fantastic build. I have always loved post and beam construction. Your builder is VERY talented. Great work. I would probably just finish it out and live in there. I'd never want to leave. What a great space to work in.