Outlet wiring question

[JordanOH]

The white goes to the wirenut that feeds the outlet. He could use a breaker such as this https://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-B...Trip-Quad-Circuit-Breaker-BQC215230/207122447 in the existing panel and adding a ground bar.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

No other breaker in that box or the well house. The wires on the upper left side of the box (with yellow wire nuts) go to the outlets.

Yes, I'll post a pic of the main panel interior tomorrow.

So then they hooked up the wires from both circuits to the 30a breaker?

Looks like #12 which is a code violation.

This needs to be fixed.

 

[AntonLargiader]

The feed from the house to the outlets is one thing. As already said, it could be on a 30A breaker which is wrong. But as for why the receps aren't working right, I would just replace them and you can verify the wiring as you do so. The one you show looks like it has gotten water or something else in past the cover. IMO it's WAY better to use a GFCI breaker (rather than GFCI receps) for outdoor circuits, so maybe you can power that circuit from a GFCI breaker in your main panel. That would fix both problems at once.

 

[teamextreme]

You have another feed from the house serving the outlets.

Winner. There is a black and white #12 that come into the panel with the #10 feed wires for the pump that just splice in the box and go out to feed the outlets. So there is likely another breaker in your main panel feeding just the outlets. Trace that feed conduit back to the main and see where the #12 black and white wires go. My guess is another breaker. None of this helps as to why the outlets are not working correctly, but it's a start to figure out how they're fed.

 

[L5wolvesf]

Re the attached pics.

The main panel is the one with my finger pointing to the 2 pole well house breaker. There is a pic of the conduit that leads out toward the well house.

There looks to be a lot more wires going into the exit conduit on the right than what comes out in the well house. That is likely because the RV space circuit goes out that general direction too – but not in a straight line with the well house. If a diagram would help to 'see' that layout let me know.

The RV space has the 1 round receptacle and the smaller box below that is a GFCI outlet. It is the 30 amp breaker in the main panel just below the well breaker – it is in the off position.

The breaker to the RV space is always off when the RV is not occupied. I haven’t had it on for a couple years now. I don’t see, or know, that it has any direct connection to the well house.

 

[AntonLargiader]

People are going to get tired of looking at too-close-up pics that don't show what's really going on.

 

[mike93lx]

IMO, this sounds like it is above your skill level for electrical work.

I think you need to bring in a pro to evaluate.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Ok so you have 2 sets of conductors going into the well house but only one breaker(30amp) feeding it and there isnt 2 hots on one pole of the 30a breaker so we dont know how the outlet circuit gets power.

At this point you need to trace the black and white wires for the outlet circuit.

Does it come into the main panel at the same place as the pump wires? Theres too many wires to be able to tell just looking at pics.

 

[L5wolvesf]

People are going to get tired of looking at too-close-up pics that don't show what's really going on.

On the main panel pics I figured the pics needed to be up close so the wires could be seen as clearly as possible. On the RV receptacles pic I can't back up any further, the RV is there.

 

[L5wolvesf]

IMO, this sounds like it is above your skill level for electrical work.

I think you need to bring in a pro to evaluate.

If it is beyond rewiring the outlets yes. But I would like to know what to tell a pro may be wrong with it. Currently, the pump works and so do the outlets.

 

[L5wolvesf]

Ok so you have 2 sets of conductors going into the well house but only one breaker(30amp) feeding it and there isnt 2 hots on one pole of the 30a breaker so we dont know how the outlet circuit gets power.

At this point you need to trace the black and white wires for the outlet circuit.

Does it come into the main panel at the same place as the pump wires? Theres too many wires to be able to tell just looking at pics.

I'll see what I can figure out at the main panel with that mess of wires. I tried to move them a bit but it is packed pretty tight. And it is almost as messy as the well breaker box.

 

[L5wolvesf]

Winner. There is a black and white #12 that come into the panel with the #10 feed wires for the pump that just splice in the box and go out to feed the outlets. So there is likely another breaker in your main panel feeding just the outlets. Trace that feed conduit back to the main and see where the #12 black and white wires go. My guess is another breaker. None of this helps as to why the outlets are not working correctly, but it's a start to figure out how they're fed.

I'll see if I can find it if there is one.

 

[checkthisout]

Your tester is faulty.

What issue were you having that made you test them in the first place?

 

[teamextreme]

If the well house outlets "work", then start shutting off breakers until they shut off, that will tell you how they're fed.

 

[The Cobbler]

If the well house outlets "work", then start shutting off breakers until they shut off, that will tell you how they're fed.

this. and see if they are on the same/different circuit from the pump
one you've identified circuits it will probably be easier for people to help you diagnose

 

[L5wolvesf]

Your tester is faulty.

What issue were you having that made you test them in the first place?

From my original post

. . we need to put heat tape on the well pipes. Simple enough but, the inside outlet is a 2 prong . .

 

[L5wolvesf]

If the well house outlets "work", then start shutting off breakers until they shut off, that will tell you how they're fed.

this. and see if they are on the same/different circuit from the pump
one you've identified circuits it will probably be easier for people to help you diagnose

There is one unlabeled breaker in the main box that may be it.

 

[L5wolvesf]

Found the breaker that feeds to the well house outlets – it is in the main panel. It is an unmarked 20 amp single pole. It started raining again so I didn’t open the panel.

Does this tell you anything good or bad or about the original question about the outlets which was . . .
On 2 outlets the tester reads “open hot” (but they work), on 1 outlet the tester’s first light is red, no others are on.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Do you have a voltmeter?

 

[L5wolvesf]

Do you have a voltmeter?

I have one of these

 

[LS6 Tommy]

There's a lot of "WOW" in those pics. I'd get a decent electrician in there pretty quick.

Tommy

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I have one of these

Test voltage at the outlet from hot to neutral, hot to grnd and neutral to grnd

 

[alfredeneuman]

There's a lot of "WOW" in those pics. I'd get a decent electrician in there pretty quick.

^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^
A lot of things are messed up with this as it is.

 

[L5wolvesf]

Test voltage at the outlet from hot to neutral, hot to grnd and neutral to grnd

Will do Thank you. I have an ‘I’m not an electrician’ question on the test procedure. Should I pull out the outlet and test where the wires attach or test via the plug side?
and
Should I do all 3 outlets AND the light or??

 

[L5wolvesf]

There's a lot of "WOW" in those pics. I'd get a decent electrician in there pretty quick.

Tommy

Yeah it is sloppy. If the fix for the outlets is a simple rewire I'll tackle the box clean up myself. I was around for a similar situation elsewhere.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Yeah it is sloppy. If the fix for the outlets is a simple rewire I'll tackle the box clean up myself. I was around for a similar situation elsewhere.

One question> Is it outdoors or just an outdoor box mounted indoors?

 

[L5wolvesf]

One question> Is it outdoors or just an outdoor box mounted indoors?

The box for the well house is inside the well house.

 

[L5wolvesf]

Test voltage at the outlet from hot to neutral, hot to grnd and neutral to grnd

Done see attached

 

[ard]

you could plug a light into any of the receptacles in the shed.

Turn off 15 or 20A breakers until the light goes off. THAT will tell you which breaker supplies that 120V black wire out to the shed.

 

[ard]

Done see attached

based on that, you need to open all boxes and fix a miswired neutral. Likely at box #2

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Done see attached

There should NEVER be potential between neutral and ground.

So now you know whats wrong just have to find the cause...

 

[ard]

OP- are you measuring from the front of the receptacle? or from the screw terminals?

Im gonna say the white and black are flipped at #2

 

[L5wolvesf]

based on that, you need to open all boxes and fix a miswired neutral. Likely at box #2

There should NEVER be potential between neutral and ground.

So now you know whats wrong just have to find the cause...

#2 was the one with an odd reading on my tester and one I can not recall ever using. I will check it out tomorrow. Thank you.

 

[L5wolvesf]

The feed from the house to the outlets is one thing. As already said, it could be on a 30A breaker which is wrong. But as for why the receps aren't working right, I would just replace them and you can verify the wiring as you do so. The one you show looks like it has gotten water or something else in past the cover. IMO it's WAY better to use a GFCI breaker (rather than GFCI receps) for outdoor circuits, so maybe you can power that circuit from a GFCI breaker in your main panel. That would fix both problems at once.

I checked out the #2 outlet yesterday and the black and white wires are in the wrong places on at least one side of the outlet.

Before I get to rewiring I have a couple questions.
1. As suggested above would it be better to have a GFCI breaker for this circuit; 3 exterior outlets (1 is a GFCI but I will be removing it) and 1 light. That sounds correct, I just want to verify?

2. If I do change the breaker to a GFCI is using the GFCI outlet I mentioned on the inside a good or bad idea?

Thank you for the help so far.

 

[ard]

I'd just install a GFCI outlet as the first device. It will protect all downstream devices.

 

[L5wolvesf]

After some delays due to weather, work and other things I finally got back to this. I did some of the cleanup of the wiring for the outlet circuit (put the wire coming out of the subpanel in conduit, rerouted it and eliminated an unnecessary outlet).

I then wired in a GFCI outlet as the first one in the circuit (as previously suggested). To verify it was wired correctly I plugged in my tester and got an “open hot” reading. I tested with the meter and the reading between the ground and hot side is still reading 121 volts. Since the outlet was an old one I put on a new one (not GFCI) – the meter was still reading 121 volts between the ground and hot side. Thinking it could be something on one of the outlets down line I took the wiring down line off – still the same.

So I still have a problem, but different than before. Previously the outlet in that box read first light red no others lit (no idea what that means) – now it reads as “open hot”. The voltage readings are the same as before – 121 volts between the ground and hot side of the outlet. So, the way I see it now is the problem has to be somewhere in the subpanel in the well house and/or the main panel. I wired the line from the subpanel to the outlet the same as it was before; white to white, black to black, and ground to the ground bar (close up of ground bar attached).

The question is what are the possible causes for the ground getting 121 volts?
One thing I noticed when stripping back insulation was the clear layer of insulation over the colored (black or white) has become deteriorated (like it had been in the AZ sun) and detached from the wire. My questions on that are:
1) Is this “normal” (the wire is likely from the late 90s and none of the wire has been exposed to sun?
2) Is the colored (black or white) insulation sufficient to insulate the wires?

Your help is appreciated.

 

[mike93lx]

I am confused. You will always see power between hot and ground on a live circuit.

The neutral and ground are connected at the main panel....

 

[L5wolvesf]

I am confused. You will always see power between hot and ground on a live circuit.

The neutral and ground are connected at the main panel....

Actually you just un-confused me. The outlets down the line were originally wired wrong via the first outlet. So now it is correct. But, why does the tester read "open hot".

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Hot to ground SHOULD read 120v

Do you have a multi-meter?

Test neutral to ground. Should be 0v

then test Hot to neutral. should be 120v

Have you tried the tester on a known good outlet?

 

[L5wolvesf]

Hot to ground SHOULD read 120v

Do you have a multi-meter? Yes

Test neutral to ground. Should be 0v

then test Hot to neutral. should be 120v

Have you tried the tester on a known good outlet?

Since these outlets worked I thought all of them here were good. I'll check it.

I'll retest things tomorrow. Thank you