ratflinger
Well-known member
Well good for you, maybe you'd take a few sentences to describe the safety features one needs to use with a 2-post, to keep the car on the lift v falling off.
Overcoming inertia
- Thread starter danix
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ratflinger
Well-known member
For this much **** I'd consider moving.
ratflinger
Well-known member
If you don't support the ends of the car you risk the car falling off. Depending where you place the lift arms you can be real close to the center of gravity. Dropping the diff or pulling an engine might way over balance the car and cause catastrophe. There have been a few C8 Corvettes destroyed when the engine was dropped without supports. $100k mistake and that's only if no one gets hurt.
OK let's talk about some specifics while I look further at lifts.
Please comment on the quality/level of the following components:
My current quote is $115k for this garage. I look at videos for Ken's Karpentry in VT and wonder how he does it for less than half, since the materials cost about the same. The $115k does not include painting, insulation, or any interior finishing.
Looking to build smart, not at the lowest possible cost.
Yes, there are some things like the electrical ($5k quoted for 200A service with 10 light fixtures, 10 outlets, 3 switches) that I think I can get done for a lot less or DIY.
Please comment on the quality/level of the following components:
- slab 4" with 8x40 apron, mesh
- Oversize brick foundation with 4” block. 3’-4” tall on right front to 6’-0” tall on left rear.Foundation to extend approx. 2ft above slab with 10’ studs on foundation for 12 ft. Ceiling.
- framing: 2x4x10 studs with 2x8 treated sill plates
- sheathing and roof plywood: 7/16" OSB
- roof trusses: 12/12 pitch roof trusses with @ 24" OC non-attic storage rated with hurricane ties
- siding is hardi plank beaded (matching the house)
My current quote is $115k for this garage. I look at videos for Ken's Karpentry in VT and wonder how he does it for less than half, since the materials cost about the same. The $115k does not include painting, insulation, or any interior finishing.
Looking to build smart, not at the lowest possible cost.
Yes, there are some things like the electrical ($5k quoted for 200A service with 10 light fixtures, 10 outlets, 3 switches) that I think I can get done for a lot less or DIY.
dave*99
Well-known member
I have those..... recharge pits. Rain is piped into (2) 20' long 24" diameter corrugated perforated pipes set in gravel.. It's supposed to put the rain water back in the soil rather than run off. Beyond ridiculous. It might work inland, but it's pointless on the coast.
RTFM
dave*99
Well-known member
All true. But I like to fix cars, so I follow the proper precautions. Lifting a big tire from my pickup over the rails on a 4 post lift is getting harder as I get older. I don't have any cars in storage.
I've seen those videos of C8's falling off a lift.
hmbemis
Well-known member
I love watching Ken, but he's building a different product for a different type of customer --
Ken's slabs often have no footing -- just a thickened edge -- and the site-prep is barebones. I can already see things like the brick/block foundation in your list above that I generally never see in what Ken does (though admittedly haven't watched much of what he's been doing in the last few years).
Ken is also in a low density area of VT, away from large cities, and it seems like most of his labor is family -- low overheads, but also more importantly he's got limited clients with limited budgets... you're in Raleigh -- the population of Raleigh is almost the same as the population of the entire state of Vermont, and if you include Raleigh-Durham-Cary you're looking at 3-4X the population of all of VT, and a lot more income.
He also builds very simple garages when it comes to design/materials -- I don't think he generally does builds as large as what you're looking for, he doesn't insulate, doesn't do complex siding (does he even use hardi?), he does no heat, no plumbing, no electric, I've seen him do some steep roofs w/ the gambrel style builds, but 12x12 over that area is going to require more elaborate effort/rigging... He probably also doesn't need permits, or at least not engineered plans w/ details related to nonpermeable cover, run off, etc... I've never seen him using the sort of hangers and fasteners I'd guess you require in Raleigh for hurricanes and storms.
jonesg
Well-known member
i'm 71, a 2 post is luxury .
BombShelter
Well-known member
Back when I used to sell concrete flatwork, the boss always went 5" minimum for areas with vehicles, it wasn't much more added cost. We never used mesh or fibers, always rebar.
I still drive by a lot of our old projects and even driveways pushing 20 years of age still look great. A lot of the stuff we replaced had mesh, to me it was worthless, once it gets wet, it rusts. Fiber seems to wick moisture and gets little hairline cracks everywhere.
As far as costs, labor is going through the roof and a lot of them have gone missing, more IRS agents means the lo-ball guys will probably disappear. You may catch a break if the economy crashes this year and election time is always slow for contractors but yea, costs have almost doubled over two years ago.
I still drive by a lot of our old projects and even driveways pushing 20 years of age still look great. A lot of the stuff we replaced had mesh, to me it was worthless, once it gets wet, it rusts. Fiber seems to wick moisture and gets little hairline cracks everywhere.
As far as costs, labor is going through the roof and a lot of them have gone missing, more IRS agents means the lo-ball guys will probably disappear. You may catch a break if the economy crashes this year and election time is always slow for contractors but yea, costs have almost doubled over two years ago.
CraigStu
Well-known member
So bump the osb to 1/2"??
racecougar
Well-known member
What shot/detail are you looking for? I use my bridge jacks all the time.
You guys that have used the commercial alignment 4-post lifts: Yes, I could see how those are a real PITA to work around. The typical homeowner 4-post lift isn't nearly as wide, so the concerns mentioned don't really apply.
dave*99
Well-known member
If for instance you are doing an oil change, do you have to duck under the rails? Or are they above your head when the car is all the way up?What shot/detail are you looking for? I use my bridge jacks all the time.
You guys that have used the commercial alignment 4-post lifts: Yes, I could see how those are a real PITA to work around. The typical homeowner 4-post lift isn't nearly as wide, so the concerns mentioned don't really apply.
Jeff Ivers
Well-known member
The first thing that occurred to me when I looked at option 1 and option 2 is where are the utilities running to the house (noticed location of electric meter)? Is there a septic system and where? Relocation of existing utilities can add a great deal of money. I built a 1200 sq ft shop on a 6" rebar reinforced slab in Oklahoma beginning in 1990. The shop is fully insulated, 9'11" ceiling height, 3 16x8 garage doors, walk-in door, 3/4 bath, finished walls, air conditioning, heater. I have resided and reroofed once. Total investment under $25,000.
I realize my main structure was erected almost 35 years ago. I did almost all the work myself. Still, your quote seems seriously high for a smaller shop. When dealing with contractors, the more solid your definition of what you want, the more accurate they can be with their bid. Do you have plans? Can you provide scale drawing of elevations and floor plan and detailed list of amenities - insulation, outlets, etc? Can you do any of the work yourself?
Based on the pics only and without the answers to the above questions, I would be pursuing the detached option.
I realize my main structure was erected almost 35 years ago. I did almost all the work myself. Still, your quote seems seriously high for a smaller shop. When dealing with contractors, the more solid your definition of what you want, the more accurate they can be with their bid. Do you have plans? Can you provide scale drawing of elevations and floor plan and detailed list of amenities - insulation, outlets, etc? Can you do any of the work yourself?
Based on the pics only and without the answers to the above questions, I would be pursuing the detached option.
racecougar
Well-known member
Provided it isn't a lifted truck, the runways are above head height.
If the lift is all the way up, it is way above head height.
your pics show different. the original pic shown below makes the bridge jack look real skinny and the vertical post on the jack makes it look like it might wobble. your pics show a better view of how wide that bridge jack isWhat shot/detail are you looking for? I use my bridge jacks all the time.
You guys that have used the commercial alignment 4-post lifts: Yes, I could see how those are a real PITA to work around. The typical homeowner 4-post lift isn't nearly as wide, so the concerns mentioned don't really apply.
racecougar
Well-known member
Gotcha. Yeah, they aren't skinny, tippy, or light, by any means.
I made these saddles for them as well, mostly for vehicles with solid axles.
dave*99
Well-known member
How did they get that truck in the garage through that little window?
probably the same way Radar mailed a Jeep home from MASHHow did they get that truck in the garage through that little window?
dave*99
Well-known member
Yes, utilities are on the side of the house so I could not directly attach the garage to the whole house, it would have to be a breezeway. I plan on a separate 200A service for the garage, septic is not in the garage area.
Ideally I don't want to GC the whole thing myself, but I could. I'm handy with a lot of things like electrical. I can get drawings and plans made up on Fiverr for a reasonable price.
I do think detached is the way to go at this point.
Can you recommend someone maybe? I'm planning to reach out to flex seal customer service myself to explore their options. I'm looking to install a proper lift in my garage, prioritizing safety above all else. As much as I'd like to tackle the project myself, I understand the importance of leaving it to the experts for peace of mind.
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Here we are now in April, I'm still waiting for final permit signoff of the deck/porch project that is now over a year in the making.
Once that is done, I'm seriously tempted to say screw the city and build whatever I want, but I know that's not the right long term choice.
Still leaning towards a simpler detached structure. Going to see if I can get some plans drawn up on fiverr and use that for bids.
Once that is done, I'm seriously tempted to say screw the city and build whatever I want, but I know that's not the right long term choice.
Still leaning towards a simpler detached structure. Going to see if I can get some plans drawn up on fiverr and use that for bids.
joendoodle
Active member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2017
- Messages
- 42
When I pulled the trigger (over 5 years ago) on a lift for my pole barn, I went with a 4 post lift.
My reasoning is (was): getting down on teh ground to set teh arms on a 2 post defeated one of the main purposes I was getting a lift for.. So I didn't have to roll around on the concrete floor like a drunk Manatee, trying to get back up.
I got a rolling jack, and it came with a jack tray so I can lift all 4 wheels if necessary. It has been useful for me.. There are good arguments for a 2 post lift, but I accepted my uses.
Now for the "punch line".
The drivers side front brake on m truck periodically locked up.. Not only was it annoying but as anyone (on this forum) can image a bad thing all around..
deciding it is time to fix it: I drove my truck onto my 4 post. Just as I was almost all the way on it (left front) locked again, and the rear of the truck moved to the side, the pass side wheel slid just off the track (aka runway).. The drivers side rear was still mostly on it's track (runway).
Yeah it only dropped a couple inches to the floor.. but it was off the track.. Missed hitting the cable and upright by inches..
Success seemed complicated. I did not see any success in backing up.
how I finally solved it..
a low profile floor jack was useful in lifting the pass side axel so the tire was up to the right height.. I used the rolling jack to lift the rear axle enough I could put a wheel dolly under the other rear (drivers side)tire. I used a "Come along" to pull the rear of the truck sideways until the pass side rear wheel was back on the track (runway).
That short paragraph (above) describes an hour or so of analyzing what tools I had and what to do w/o making it worse.
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In the end I was able to replace all the brake components on the left front and eliminate the hanging caliper. Now I can hookup the car hauler and take (1 of) my Corvettes out of storage for the 400 mile trip to our "normal house"
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In summary...This same scenario would have been avoided with a 2 post lift.. So I stand humbled by those that advocate for a 2 post vice 4 post lift.
My reasoning is (was): getting down on teh ground to set teh arms on a 2 post defeated one of the main purposes I was getting a lift for.. So I didn't have to roll around on the concrete floor like a drunk Manatee, trying to get back up.
I got a rolling jack, and it came with a jack tray so I can lift all 4 wheels if necessary. It has been useful for me.. There are good arguments for a 2 post lift, but I accepted my uses.
Now for the "punch line".
The drivers side front brake on m truck periodically locked up.. Not only was it annoying but as anyone (on this forum) can image a bad thing all around..
deciding it is time to fix it: I drove my truck onto my 4 post. Just as I was almost all the way on it (left front) locked again, and the rear of the truck moved to the side, the pass side wheel slid just off the track (aka runway).. The drivers side rear was still mostly on it's track (runway).
Yeah it only dropped a couple inches to the floor.. but it was off the track.. Missed hitting the cable and upright by inches..
Success seemed complicated. I did not see any success in backing up.
how I finally solved it..
a low profile floor jack was useful in lifting the pass side axel so the tire was up to the right height.. I used the rolling jack to lift the rear axle enough I could put a wheel dolly under the other rear (drivers side)tire. I used a "Come along" to pull the rear of the truck sideways until the pass side rear wheel was back on the track (runway).
That short paragraph (above) describes an hour or so of analyzing what tools I had and what to do w/o making it worse.
.
In the end I was able to replace all the brake components on the left front and eliminate the hanging caliper. Now I can hookup the car hauler and take (1 of) my Corvettes out of storage for the 400 mile trip to our "normal house"
.
In summary...This same scenario would have been avoided with a 2 post lift.. So I stand humbled by those that advocate for a 2 post vice 4 post lift.
joendoodle
Active member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2017
- Messages
- 42
I have a similar 4 post lift (Advantage - outside slider) to the one pictured (Wildfire - outside slider). A nice thing about outside slider designed lifts is they are inherently more stable than the C channel design (no rocking)
Unlike the picture, I have only 1 rolling jack, I normally use it for lifting on the frame.. On those RARE days when I need all 4 wheels up, I use bottle jacks in my jacking tray, and or a floor jack on the runway. Unless you run into the lift with your car / truck , it is about as stable as being on the ground.
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I'm NOT saying for the case where all 4 wheels need to be off a 2 post lift wouldn't be easier.. but we can make it work on our 4 posters..
joendoodle
Active member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2017
- Messages
- 42
I can put my Corvettes all the way up (my lift has almost 7' clearance if all the way up), but since I have 12 foot ceilings, I cannot lift my truck up all the way so ducking is always necessary.. That all said, high enough I don't have to duck (a little) is too high up for me to reach way over my head for an oil change.. My wife has caught me sitting in my roll around chair rolling under my truck doing an oil change.
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Generally I put my lift all the way up (therefore this 6' 1" man doesn't need to duck) when I need to use the floor space for something else.. like parking another car below, or using my table saw and / or miter saw. I added shop lights in the bottom of the runways, because the lift w/ a car on it blocks the ceiling lights.
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Other perspectives, There are times when I raise the lift to waist level, i.e. to remove the lugs from a tire, then lower it to match the height of my motorcycle lift, then slide the (HEAVY) tire onto it and roll it out of the way, then lift it to the best height for the work I am doing.. Then repeat for bringing the tire back..
dave*99
Well-known member
You touched on some of my concerns:
If I were to put my truck up high enough to walk under the ramps, I suspect I could not reach the oil filter to change it.
I currently have a 2 post Rotary lift I use for servicing my vehicles. And that won't change.
I am considering adding a 4 post lift in another bay to store another car. So I'm curious if I'd ever find a reason to work on a vehicle on the 4 post given it will be next to a 2 post. Seems as long as I can get down to adjust the 2 post lift arms, I'd be 100% on the 2 post for service.
My Old Tools
Well-known member
Build a 30x40x16 and get it permitted and closed out. Add the 2nd floor later without permits.
Me again. I'm down to doing a 40x30x12 with no upstairs (storage rated trusses only). I have a quote from a builder I trust and while the GC fees are ridiculously high, I know it will get done right.
I think I've also decided on a 4 post lift but the slab will be ready for a 2 post as well just in case.
I wanted y'alls feedback on doors and openers. The spec says:
I think I've also decided on a 4 post lift but the slab will be ready for a 2 post as well just in case.
I wanted y'alls feedback on doors and openers. The spec says:
Tariff is not on the retailing price.
It is on the imported price before any stateside handling and markups, make sure you don't get gouged there. Anything adding over 10% (and that is probably even high) on the retail end is going to be pure profiteering by everyone who handled it between the dock it came in on to when it gets to your house.
It is on the imported price before any stateside handling and markups, make sure you don't get gouged there. Anything adding over 10% (and that is probably even high) on the retail end is going to be pure profiteering by everyone who handled it between the dock it came in on to when it gets to your house.
I was able to negotiate with the builder and we're under contract. I still have watershed/infiltration engineering work to be done and a treatment area to be built, then I can move ahead with the garage. But it's moving.
I'll be updating with component questions as I move ahead but there is light at the end of the tunnel.
I'll be updating with component questions as I move ahead but there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Worsedog
Well-known member
I think in the long term you'll be happier with the extra depth, 26' wouldn't leave much room in front of or behind a vehicle.
andyvh1959
Well-known member
My previous home in a small town 30 miles south of Green Bay, I had the materials to build a 28.5 x 48 shop, and the lot allowed the setbacks. But the city would not give me a build permit because the limit for a stand alone garage was 900 sq-ft. I designed and proposed an attached breezwway to the house and the garage on slab. That was approved and I built my 1320 sq ft garage. Still today, 28 years after I built that garage it does no look huge next the house as the old farm house style was taller than the garage. It looked right.