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P&C Stuff

Private Lugnutz

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No information to add, but this big P&C on the left is an N90 1-5/8 x 1-7/16 if that helps your study guys.
It does help. Because the Air Corps WF series DBE wrenches ended at WF89 (1-1/2 x 1-
7/16)! WF90 was an ignition wrench!

Your wrench shows that while the P&C N series DBE wrenches matched the Plomb and P&C WF series DBE wrenches exactly from 79 to 89, it also included at least one additionally DBE wrench (90) that was NOT in the WF series. Which makes the N series different. Which fits having a different contract.
 
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Private Lugnutz

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CALLING ALL VINTAGE P&C COLLECTORS

The Plomb WF series ran from WF1 - WF137, including 9/32 (WF1-15), 3/8 (WF16-24, WF72-78, WF120-126), 1/2 (WF34-56, WF27-137), and 3/4 (WF57-71) socket set tools, DBEs (WF-79-89), DOE (WF92-95), electrical (WF97-103), and line wrenches (WF 107-116).

Does anyone have or has anyone ever seen any [P&C] WF marked tools other than the DBEs (WF9-WF89)?

Does anyone have or has anyone ever seen any [P&C] N marked tools that have numbers between 1-137 other than the DBEs (N79-N89)?
 

twertsy

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CALLING ALL VINTAGE P&C COLLECTORS

The Plomb WF series ran from WF1 - WF137, including 9/32 (WF1-15), 3/8 (WF16-24, WF72-78, WF120-126), 1/2 (WF34-56, WF27-137), and 3/4 (WF57-71) socket set tools, DBEs (WF-79-89), DOE (WF92-95), electrical (WF97-103), and line wrenches (WF 107-116).

Does anyone have or has anyone ever seen any [P&C] WF marked tools other than the DBEs (WF9-WF89)?

Does anyone have or has anyone ever seen any [P&C] N marked tools that have numbers between 1-137 other than the DBEs (N79-N89)?

I don't recall seeing any but I'll recheck when I can.
 

r_olson_06

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CALLING ALL VINTAGE P&C COLLECTORS

The Plomb WF series ran from WF1 - WF137, including 9/32 (WF1-15), 3/8 (WF16-24, WF72-78, WF120-126), 1/2 (WF34-56, WF27-137), and 3/4 (WF57-71) socket set tools, DBEs (WF-79-89), DOE (WF92-95), electrical (WF97-103), and line wrenches (WF 107-116).

Does anyone have or has anyone ever seen any [P&C] WF marked tools other than the DBEs (WF9-WF89)?

Does anyone have or has anyone ever seen any [P&C] N marked tools that have numbers between 1-137 other than the DBEs (N79-N89)?
I think I have a 3/8 extension that is p&c WF it is about 12" long.

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Private Lugnutz

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I don't recall seeing any but I'll recheck when I can.
Thanks, Todd. You see where this is going right?! (I need another chart like I need a hole in the head, and I am literally typing this as my teak oil dries on the back porch - and I should be running to the hardware store cuz I ran out, and the Eagles game starts in an hour, but I made the mistake of having my smart phone outside with me! HAHA! But this is going to need a chart. It's weird nobody has done this comparison before.)

I was searching ebay and P&C N92 is down in size, 15/16 x 7/8.
That's because there was no 15/16 x 7/8 DBE wrench in the Plomb/P&C WF series! The WF-84 was 13/16 x 7/8, and the WF-85 was 15/16 x 1. Again, evidencing the fact that the P&C N series is similar but more expansive than the Plomb/P&C WF series, and strongly implying the reason for the 10/42 Air Corps contract with P&C. They needed wrenches they didn't specify or order in the WF series.

I have a P&C WF-19 extension. It is more slender than my Plomb version, so it was not made with the Plomb tooling.
If that's a 3/8-inch drive 12" long extension, it matches the functional purpose of the Plomb WF-19.

I think I have a 3/8 extension that is p&c WF it is about 12" long.
When you get a chance, see what the number is, please.
 

Rileysan

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Forgive me for how critical this sounds. I'm not attacking you or you work. I just don't get it.

What significance is there to the Army Air corps having a contract with P&C vs Plomb? They might be separate companies, but they were owned by the same people.

No contract with the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT would not have been made by a traveling salesman making cold calls!

To fulfill such a big contract they would have to agree to manufacture tools to the government's exact standards, endure invasive government inspections, and meet difficult if not impossible deadlines. There would also have been huge capital investments at any manufacturing site to create a new line of tools and to meet the government's strict standards. As such, any contract signed with the government would require the owners of Plomb to be involved. Once P&C was acquired, new contracts could be negotiated by the owners as the P&C site would also require capital investments.

For all intents and purposes, this would make Plomb and P&C indecipherable from each other.

A similar example would be the Kaiser shipyards that sprouted up and down the West Coast during WWII. Henry J. Kaiser (Kaiser Corp) bought up lots of ship yards to fill contracts with the government during WWII. Most sites kept their original names. There were three such shipyards here in Portland, and all three had different names. Some of the same ships were built at all three sites but not all sites built all ships. If you have access to the contracts, I'll bet you will find such details as "St Johns Shipyard to make ** ships" and "Swan Island Shipyard *** ships". But no matter where they came from, they were still Kaiser ships.

The same can be said for P&C tools made under contract for the US government. Even though they say P&C, they were still Plomb tools.

As Shakespeare so eloquently put it in Romeo & Juliet - (It doesn't matter that your'e a "Montague") "A Rose by any other name is just as sweet".

Brian
 

Private Lugnutz

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Nothing to forgive, Brian. I'm not sure the disconnect is lack of comprehension so much as lack of interest. Or different interests. There’s really nothing to discuss for the same reason. But I’ll give it a go.

It's not inaccurate to say that all DBE wrenches made by P&C are Plomb tools, from the perspective of ownership, any more than it wouldn't be inaccurate to say that Plombaloy adjustables made a few years later (by J.P. Danielson) were Plomb tools, from the perspective of ownership. It's just unnecessarily vague. And in this case, faced with so many facts to the contrary (distinct contracts, distinct tools, and probably related by that distinction), it’s inappropriately vague.

It might help to not let your insistence on looking at this exclusively from the perspective of ownership obscure the facts established by the record at a much more detailed level, from the perspective of manufacturing. You may have missed me say that establishing an OEM and location was the purpose of the WPB Major War Supply Contracts records. Your desire to keep things at the highest level where all those details can be ignored is further reflected by your Kaiser analogy (you may have no interest in knowing which ships were built in which shipyards, but I can guarantee you there are Navy guys out there to whom it matters), as well as your emphatically emboldened reference to the "US Government", as if one gigantic monolithic Uncle Sam handed good ol' Alphonse a check for $12M and said, "Just go make us some tools."

Multiple agencies (different services, different branches, and different bureaus with different aviation, automotive, shipyard and shipboard maintenance needs) awarded multiple contracts to Plomb for specified amounts and specified tools at specified times. That wasn’t random, and those aren’t subject to interpretation, they are historical facts maintained by the WB completely unaffected by the matter of ownership. You don't have to pay attention to those distinctions if you don't want to, but they are important to other collectors in understanding tools and tool-sets, in concert with other period documents, such as Army and Navy manuals and catalogs.

Finding out that P&C had its own distinct contracts - and one of them with the US Army Air Corps, adds even more detail to that picture.

Ownership of P&C Hand Forged Tools by the Plomb Tool Company has NO IMPACT WHATSOEVER on the historical fact of contract 535 AC 33915 worth $362K being awarded on 10/42 to P&C Hand Forged Tools instead of to the Plomb Tool Company. If there was no distinction between the tools being ordered by the US Army Air Corps from P&C under that contract and the tools being ordered by the US Army Air Corps from Plomb under contract 535 AC33176 worth $4.283M awarded the very same month, why didn't the US Army Air Corps simply and more efficiently award Plomb a $4.645M ($4.283 + $362K) contract instead? Details like that do matter. The significance is that the US Army Air Corps wrote a separate contract to P&C at the very same time they were in the process of awarding a huge contract to Plomb. Why? One of the most obvious answers is that the orders were different. And the P&C N series tools with a US Army Air Corps WF-like numbering scheme - but with additional tools that the WF- contracts did not produce, is clearly shaping up to be one possible explanation.

With all due respect to the Bard, a rose is a rose is a rose, but there are 37 different classes of roses alone, with hundreds of varieties, and to horticulturalists, floral shops, mothers, sweethearts, the ladies in the local garden club, it’s the varieties that make all the difference in the world, akin to the difference between round shanks and flat shanks, N markings instead of WF markings, and [P&C] N markings on DBE wrenches bearing US Army Air Corps numbers that their owners, their legal parent corporate entity – the Plomb Tool Compay – DID NOT MAKE.
 

Sunset_Z28

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Here’s my DBE contribution. N-87, W2236, N-92, and 2218.
 

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Outlawmws

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Another point on those Kaiser contracts: If Kaiser bought the shipyards to fulfill Kaiser contracts, those ARE Kaiser made ships in Kaiser shipyards under those contracts. I feel secure in saying WHERE the ships were made mattered not a bit to the US Government, so long as the ships met speck. So saying, If the contract was with the shipyard as a subsidiary, but for Kaiser design spec ships than calling than all Kaiser ships is a misnomer.

Heck Singer sewing machine Co was making M1 carbines on contract at least. That does not make them "Singer" guns...

There are cases of tools marked "Plvmb" that are clearly their subsidiaries tools. Again so long as the tools met spec, the factory and purely atheistic details don't matter to meeting the contract. Possibly this is what you are referring to? :dunno:

I'm with Lugz on his interpretation of what contract a tool was made under determines if its a particular tool companies tool; that a subsidiary MAY have used different tooling matters not. The branding and contract matters.

But calling any P&C tool made a Plvmb tool is inaccurate pre or post acquisition. Those companies had subcontracts with each other even prior to acquisition and you could say those subs led to the acquisitions.

If I stumbled on my explanation/opinion, apologies in advance. My head is splitting. (causing a slow down on my dang tent project...)
 

Rileysan

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Ownership of P&C Hand Forged Tools by the Plomb Tool Company has NO IMPACT WHATSOEVER on the historical fact of contract 535 AC 33915 worth $362K being awarded on 10/42 to P&C Hand Forged Tools instead of to the Plomb Tool Company. If there was no distinction between the tools being ordered by the US Army Air Corps from P&C under that contract and the tools being ordered by the US Army Air Corps from Plomb under contract 535 AC33176 worth $4.283M awarded the very same month, why didn't the US Army Air Corps simply and more efficiently award Plomb a $4.645M ($4.283 + $362K) contract instead? Details like that do matter.

.

Bold lettering in quote is my emphasis.

I'm arguing the decision to bid on a contract by either Plomb or P&C was determined by the owner's choice on which site to upgrade, not which site was fully prepared to start manufacturing today. You seem to take for granted that both sites were ready to produce everything the government needed. Some items, yes. But there were many new lines of tools made for the government, according to their specifications, that neither site was prepared to make when contract bids were being accepted. The owners had to decide numerous factors including cost and availability of raw materials, transportation infrastructure (something we take for granted now), worker skill and availability, and site considerations like: do we have room for expansion?

I don't believe for a second any of this was done by a sales team or management at "P&C". Impossible. The capital investments needed required the owners involvement.

My contention is simple. The owners made the decision to bid on contracts using the name Plomb or P&C. I contend that the government did NOT award a contract to P&C instead of Plomb, as you have implied, but rather there were no competing bids between the companies. The logical conclusion is that bids were made by the Pendleton family on behalf of Plomb or P&C, and to have both sites bidding against each other doesn't make any sense.

Brian
 
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Rileysan

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I feel secure in saying WHERE the ships were made mattered not a bit to the US Government, so long as the ships met speck.

I could not disagree more.

The government would never award a contract to a company without nailing down every detail including, but not limited to, where the ship, car, wrench, w/e is to be made.

The company I work for was in business with the US government for decades. The government likes to micro-manage every detail of your business and if they don't believe you have the skills or capacity to fulfill their demands, they won't do business with you.

The US government does not necessarily award contracts to the lowest bidder! That's why you hear stories about $1000 hammers and $2000 toilet seats.

Another point on those Kaiser contracts: If Kaiser bought the shipyards to fulfill Kaiser contracts, those ARE Kaiser made ships in Kaiser shipyards under those contracts.

I'm nitpicking, but the details matter. Henry Kaiser did not buy shipyards to fulfill contracts. He bought shipyards so he could bid on new contracts to build ships.


I know nothing about ship building so I know nothing about their design. But, if these ships were designed and blueprinted by the US Navy, then they are US Navy ships built by the Kaiser Corp (or whoever else made "Victory" ships during WWII). If the ships were a Kaiser Corp design and accepted by the US Navy, they are Kaiser ships no matter where they were built.


Brian
 

3baygarage

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Check out the movie War Dogs if you guys haven't seen it. It's entertaining.

I pretty much just wanted to throw that in, but here's the ball peen I picked up Sat..

# 1304.

The handle is not original, it's a Link brand and I believe I first heard that name on the GJ.

attachment.php
 

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Private Lugnutz

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Check out the movie War Dogs if you guys haven't seen it. It's entertaining.
My daughter convinced me to watch it. I've worked in or for the Army in one suit (OD, or civilian) or another for my entire adult life. I was skeptical. But it was really good. Funny and telling (excesses of Small Business Association and FedBizOpps gone mad!)

3bayagarage said:
The handle is not original, it's a Link brand
It may not be original anyway, due to it being newer than the head, or visibly re-handled, but I have learned to be careful with this. I have found original vintage hammers with original 3rd party handles.
 

Private Lugnutz

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Brian,

You're reading way too much into the word "instead."

I have not stated or implied any sort of sales or marketing or management effort by P&C whatsoever. Nor have I stated or implied a selection by the US Army Air Corps for P&C over Plomb in a closed, competitive-sensitive environment. The idea would be preposterous given the contracts chronology (several Plomb contracts, one P&C contract, several Plomb contracts) I have summarized on this thread several times now. In fact, the tentative theories I have already made for a separate P&C contract were practical in nature. It is also preposterous given the corporate relationship. As I have said numerous times, P&C was a managed brand and subsidiary of Plomb and almost certainly already making WF-marked tools for Plomb's earlier Air Corps contracts. That implies collaboration and confederation, not competition.

All of which makes the facts even more (not less) remarkable, and that is that in October 1942, after letting five (5) sizable earlier contracts to the Plomb Tool Company - three (3) of those you should take note, again, awarded after the acquisition of P&C Hand Forged Tools by Plomb, the US Army Air Corps awarded a contract to P&C Hand Forged Tools, not to the Plomb Tool Company. They did that in the same month they awarded a big fat whopping contract (their biggest single wartime contract, by the way) to the Plomb Tool Company. And they did it instead of simply adding that relatively piddly amount to the contract they were awarding to the Plomb Tool Company. Whether that was their idea, Plomb's idea, or some combination of Air Corps, Plomb and even P&C is irrelevant to that fact. And note, again, that after that 10/42 P&C award, the Air Corps awarded three (3) more contracts to the Plomb Tool Company, not to P&C.

If all the conditions were the same as when the first five contracts were awarded, why not just award the 6th to Plomb and let Plomb work out the particulars of production?

From my perspective, informed by my experience and knowledge base in reviewing these contracts in the WPB MWSC books in the context of other period documents, something about the technical nature of that particular P&C contract - breaking a precedence and pattern that the Air Corps then returned to soon after its award, had to warrant such an action.

While other research would help - and still might, any seasoned and objective-minded collector not only would but should turn to empirical evidence in an effort to back his way into potential reasons through analysis. In that realm, the [P&C] N series tools, bearing a numbering scheme that mirrors the same numbering scheme used on Plomb and [P&C] branded WF series tools, but expanding into sizes of wrenches that were not produced by Plomb or P&C with WF series numbers, has to be considered a strong possibility.

If that doesn't strike you as significant, then there's no sense arguing about it. We can just leave it at that. Because I have no desire to try to persuade you, and your arguments about Pendleton pulling all the strings, which are irrelevant to the existence of the heretofore unexplained WF-like N series tools and the heretofore unknown historical record of the P&C contract, will not dissuade me.

Waving a hand over it all and pronouncing it all Plomb doesn’t help. It doesn’t hurt either. Because it's benign to the questions at hand.

If I have any motivation for finding and amassing historical documents and using them as reference material in this hobby it's to learn more and move the bubble, and sometimes that challenges conventional wisdom and long-held convictions. (EDIT: See the now disproven notion that Pebble period tools are post-war, achieved by using War Production Board L- and E- Orders to understand Plomb catalogs that were previously analyzed without them.)
 
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Private Lugnutz

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You seem to take for granted that both sites were ready to produce everything the government needed.
If by "sites" you mean Plomb's and P&C's production facilities, quite the opposite, in fact. The crux of my theory (considering the WF-like N series tools in sizes not found in the WF series as a possible explanation for the P&C contract) is based on the premise that there was something different, something peculiar to, unique to, or at the very least more appropriate for P&C for this particular order, which was put on a P&C contract instead of a Plomb contract.

But there were many new lines of tools made for the government, according to their specifications, that neither site was prepared to make when contract bids were being accepted.
This is tangential to our disconnect on my interest in and the significance of the P&C contract, but this is not true, Brian. In fact, the overwhelming majority of tools bought during WWII were specified with Federal Stock Numbers from the Federal Standard Stock Catalog, a precursor to the NSN system, and many tools and entire tool-sets in the wartime US Army Ordnance Supply Catalog and US Navy Supply Catalog Class 41 that were not specified with FSN's were specified with Mfgr's model numbers and figures. The US Army and the Navy did have some peculiar needs and specifications that prompted some new or re-tooling, typically in sizes or size combinations, and one can readily see the evidence of that by closely studying the offerings in immediate pre-war, wartime, and immediate post-war catalogs, or by examining the 1939 Federal Standard Stock Catalog and the 1947 Federal Standard Stock Catalog. But "many new lines of tools" misrepresents the historical record. The Treasury Department (which administered the FSSC), the War Department and the Technical Services very much relied on and followed industry's lead. The single biggest impact the government had on tools during the war was composition, and that did change the industry forever.
 
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d42jeep

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I was going through my old pictures and found one of this wrench. I don't know where it ended up.
-Don
 

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Provincial

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With a degree in American History, I find this thread interesting. The diligence of the research, the peer review, the thoughtfulness of those suggesting possible alternatives, and the professionalism of the dialogue all are academic quality. The level of objectivity exceeds modern academics, which are prone to "political correctness."

I see this in other threads here, often with different participants, but the same quality.

Most academics look down on (many disparage) ordinary people when they do research and develop theories, saying that they "lack training." This group proves them wrong.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
:bowdown:
 

Private Lugnutz

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Very interesting, Slew! Thanks for noticing and posting that, and thanks for preserving the eBay photo here.

On one hand, it may put a twist in the P&C contract theory, although this N- series tool was obviously manufactured after the war when Plomb was PROTO. Both could be possible, as is the case with the WF- series.

And on the other, it's one more piece that confirms the correlation between the N- series and the WF- series of tools, a correlation that now includes DBE's, 1/2-drive tools, and 3/8-drive tools.
 

Private Lugnutz

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Provincial: I missed your post until now. Nice of you to say!

EDIT: As for your assessment of academia, I not only agree, but extend it to society at large. Furthermore, I blame the downfall in critical thinking and objective dialectics in this country on two things: Civics classes are no longer a basic, mandatory part of High School curriculums, and Debate Clubs - where we learned to argue both sides of an issue with equal vigor - are also a thing of the past. It's a damn shame.
 
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Smokeshow69

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P&C Stuff

I scored this really cool old p&c 3/8ths drive ratchet at a swap meet this weekend! I found way more p&c this time than plomb but it is rough when you are this close to the p&c factory [emoji38] I will post all of my finds later but for now I wanted to find out any info you guys know about it ? I paid $4 and it will look great with my other p&c tools ! It has a really cool way to switch directions, you pull the socket off and push the stud through !
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Rileysan

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Provincial: I missed your post until now. Nice of you to say!

EDIT: As for your assessment of academia, I not only agree, but extend it to society at large. Furthermore, I blame the downfall in critical thinking and objective dialectics in this country on two things: Civics classes are no longer a basic, mandatory part of High School curriculums, and Debate Clubs - where we learned to argue both sides of an issue with equal vigor - are also a thing of the past. It's a damn shame.

I totally agree!

I would like add that debates, nowadays, are often vilified. To a generation not accustomed to losing (read: participation awards for all!), losing an argument is akin to a personal attack. Instead of being a learning tool, debate is often a sledge hammer used to quash the opposition.

Good stuff. Keep up the good work!

Brian
 

Rileysan

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Re: P&C Stuff

I scored this really cool old p&c 3/8ths drive ratchet at a swap meet this weekend! I found way more p&c this time than plomb but it is rough when you are this close to the p&c factory [emoji38] I will post all of my finds later but for now I wanted to find out any info you guys know about it ? I paid $4 and it will look great with my other p&c tools ! It has a really cool way to switch directions, you pull the socket off and push the stud through !
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Great find, Smoke - I'm looking forward to seeing your other finds! It was great running into you Saturday!

Brian
 

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Smokeshow69

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Re: P&C Stuff

Great find, Smoke - I'm looking forward to seeing your other finds! It was great running into you Saturday!



Brian



You as well ! When you have time post up your finds as well ! I know you got something that belongs in here as well as other threads !


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Rileysan

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Milwaukie, Oregon
My turn on the P&C tool finds.

As Smokeshow mentioned, there was a small automotive swap meet at Portland International Raceway this weekend. I had hoped for more vendors, but that would have meant spending more money, so I guess 'small' was ok.

Among the P&C tools I found Saturday, comes this unusual socket set. The drive tool is a non-ratcheting square drive wrench with a spring loaded ball to hold the sockets. Interestingly, the sockets had no detent for the ball to hold against. Also, the sockets have no markings whatsoever. Not even sizes!

Has anyone seen something like this before?

I also found a few DBE wrenches (along with many other wrenches not pictured).

P&C N-89 1 1/2" x 1 7/16"
P&C 2222E 11/16" x 5/8"
P&C 2514 3/8" x 7/16"


Brian
 

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Rileysan

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Re: P&C Stuff

You as well ! When you have time post up your finds as well ! I know you got something that belongs in here as well as other threads !


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Here are the pictures you were alluding to. However, I've come to the conclusion it's not a P&C set.

I am interested in opinions. I purchased this incomplete 1/4" drive socket set Saturday for $20. The ratchet is clearly made by Plomb.

- P-10 1/4" drive ratchet
- P-34 1/4" drive breaker bar
- P-608 1/4", P-609 9/32", P-610 5/16", P-611 11/32", P-612 3/8", P-614 7/16" 6-pt sockets.
- P-808 1/4", P-810 5/16", P-8123/8" 8-pt sockets.
- Plomb 1/2" socket
- P&C 1/4" universal joint adapter
- Craftsman =V= extension
- Craftsman BE 1/4" socket.

My best guess is that this is a Penens set, made by Plomb.

What say you guys?

I took these pix with my phone. I can get the good camera out if that will help.

Brian
 

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3baygarage

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Nice scores you guys.

Riley that same set of square wrench with sockets set on Ebay earlier this year. I thought it was pretty unique. Cool find.

Smoke - nice early ratchet find. You guys must be right in the heart of it there.
 

Rileysan

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Nice scores you guys.

Riley that same set of wrench with sockets set on Ebay earlier this year. I thought it was pretty unique. Cool find.

Smoke - nice early ratchet find. You guys must be right in the heart of it there.

I currently live less than a mile from the P&C factory - which no longer exists. We are definitely in the thick of it!

Brian
 

3baygarage

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Riley- I agree with your assessment of the socket set. It's part of that family. Basically the same as the Challenger labeled version. Possibly Artcraft or another private label from what I have seen, when it comes to those tools with just numbers.

Pretty cool on the factory.
 

r_olson_06

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Feb 12, 2012
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SD
My turn on the P&C tool finds.

As Smokeshow mentioned, there was a small automotive swap meet at Portland International Raceway this weekend. I had hoped for more vendors, but that would have meant spending more money, so I guess 'small' was ok.

Among the P&C tools I found Saturday, comes this unusual socket set. The drive tool is a non-ratcheting square drive wrench with a spring loaded ball to hold the sockets. Interestingly, the sockets had no detent for the ball to hold against. Also, the sockets have no markings whatsoever. Not even sizes!

Has anyone seen something like this before?

I also found a few DBE wrenches (along with many other wrenches not pictured).

Brian
What is the O.D. of the square. I have some plomb of a similar design not exact but similar.

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Private Lugnutz

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Re: P&C Stuff

My best guess is that this is a Penens set
I believe it's Fleet. You will find a perfectly model numbers-matching 18-pc 1/4-inch drive set, No. P2005, on page 4 of the 1950 Fleet Quality Tools / PENENS Corporation catalog. EDIT: Located on the 'Tool Archives' under PENENS here. Every page is labeled Fleet at the top and PENENS on the bottom, and the letter up front identifies it as Fleet Quality Tools brand. All the Fleet 1/4-inch drive tools have P- model numbers. My PENENS 1/4-inch drive tools have 10xx model numbers. (I was recently scrutinizing this catalog to try to identify my PENENS 1/4- and 1/2-inch drive set. The tools themselves are exact matches in construction and features etc, but the model numbers on my PENENS stuff are all different. Confirming that there was separation in how they marketed their tools by brand.) But you're going to be excited when you see your set on the bottom of page 4.
 
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Rileysan

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Re: P&C Stuff

I believe it's Fleet. You will find a perfectly model numbers-matching 18-pc 1/4-inch drive set, No. P2005, on page 4 of the 1950 Fleet Quality Tools / PENENS Corporation catalog. EDIT: Located on the 'Tool Archives' under PENENS here. Every page is labeled Fleet at the top and PENENS on the bottom, and the letter up front identifies it as Fleet Quality Tools brand. All the Fleet 1/4-inch drive tools have P- model numbers. My PENENS 1/4-inch drive tools have 10xx model numbers. (I was recently scrutinizing this catalog to try to identify my PENENS 1/4- and 1/2-inch drive set. The tools themselves are exact matches in construction and features etc, but the model numbers on my PENENS stuff are all different. Confirming that there was separation in how they marketed their tools by brand.) But you're going to be excited when you see your set on the bottom of page 4.

Outstanding! Thanks for doing the leg work and finding the my set. I really appreciate it!

I need to make a detailed list so I remember what to look for when I try to complete the set.

Here's a capture from the catalog for all to see.

Brian
 

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Private Lugnutz

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Glad to help, Brian. BTW, the box my PENENS 1000 1/4-inch set came in is the exact same box your PENENS/Fleet P2005 set came in, except mine is red. I was in the process of using that catalog, even though it's Fleet, to spruce up my PENENS wanted ad with some pics. The boxes are on the last page. I'm looking for the smaller of the two hip roof types for all my PENENS stuff: so far, 1/4 sq dr set (in its own case), 1/2 sq dr set, set of DOEs, and two adjustables.
 

stormking

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Smokeshow, Your ratchet is from the mid 1930's, you can find it in the Woodbury catalog from 1936. They made it in both 3/8" and 1/2".
Riley, The early tools you found are a valve adjusting set. You're missing the special screwdriver and a few sockets, same as I am. You can find it in the 1932 catalog on page 9. Interestingly, in the 1932 catalog they used names for the tools, your wrench is a "BONE" and the sockets are "Booby" "Bonus" "Bust" and "****". That was a cool labeling system. I give credit to Mr.X for identifying my set when I first found it.
 
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Smokeshow69

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Smokeshow, Your ratchet is from the mid 1930's, you can find it in the Woodbury catalog from 1936. They made it in both 3/8" and 1/2".
Riley, The early tools you found are a valve adjusting set. You're missing the special screwdriver and a few sockets, same as I am. You can find it in the 1932 catalog on page 9. Interestingly, in the 1932 catalog they used names for the tools, your wrench is a "BONE" and the sockets are "Booby" "Bonus" "Bust" and "****". That was a cool labeling system. I give credit to Mr.X for identifying my set when I first found it.



Thanks for your info ! Even with the hardened grease in it the ratchet still feels smooth so I can only imagine how it will feel once it is cleaned and lubed ! I will clean it and post more pictures along with the rest of my p&c finds this weekend!


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