P&C Stuff

[Rileysan]

There is a p & c pebble 1/4 drive ratchet on ebay that I know we where talking about a few pages back! I think someone needed it to finish their collection of 1/4 tools?? I don't have the funds to purchase but felt it would be worth it to someone??? Here is the ebay link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/P-C-No-0246...581492?hash=item5d6b164a74:g:poEAAOSwYIxX~X2i

I have looked at that one before, but it's too rich for me. If the seller was more reasonable about shipping, I'd be tempted but as it stands, I won't touch it.

Brian

 

[chopper1]

He's, IMO out of line on his pricing and he's also making additional money on the postage. That should ship for $6.80 flat rate Priority and he's talking standard shipping.

 

[Smokeshow69]

He's, IMO out of line on his pricing and he's also making additional money on the postage. That should ship for $6.80 flat rate Priority and he's talking standard shipping.

For sure! You could fit it in one of the padded $3 envelopes and be fine I see it has been reposted for sale a few times by the same seller. To bad they are not offering a best offer option ...

 

[Rileysan]

Re: P&C Stuff

Time to bump this thread with a single wrench. Like new P&C 2825 DOE wrench from a thrift store on the Oregon coast. $3

Brian

 

[Provincial]

Only us insiders know that P&C stuff is collectable. (wink)

It makes it possible to acquire neat stuff at affordable prices.

 

[Rileysan]

Only us insiders know that P&C stuff is collectable. (wink)

It makes it possible to acquire neat stuff at affordable prices.

Unless, of course, you are looking on eBay. Darn sellers tend to know their stuff!!

 

[Provincial]

Ebay has gone from bargains to overpriced. Unfortunately, Craigslist sellers are increasingly using Ebay asking prices as a guide. When garage sales and second hand stores follow suit, our hobby may be put in a decline.

 

[ssdave]

Ebay prices are set by the buyers not the sellers, although there are "offerers", not sellers who put non-viable starting or buy it now prices on their stuff, and it doesn't sell. If you search only the sold items, you can get a good grasp of what selling prices are, not the wishful thinking. Most of the wishful thinking has been set by the sales of a few desirable sets, then sellers price their common stuff at the same price because they can't see how theirs is different.

I like P&C and had a lot of it in my early mixed tool sets that I used. Eventually I replaced all the mismatch with matched sets of stuff, and it became surplus and just more clutter. I never had enough to put together very good sets of P&C, and the much more common Proto became the basis of what I keep and use.


P&C aren't particularly good sellers. I put my sets out on ebay last year, and they sold, but for very low prices. I put all the miscellaneous stuff I had out for sale a while back for $1.50 per item overall price for the lot, and had no takers, so they went into my discard pile. The same stuff in Craftsman would have brought double that and would sell easily on ebay. I've been selling my accumulation of old tools for a couple of years now, and I see very little demand for most old SAE tools. There is specific demand for some of the harder to find pieces to fill out sets, but the run of the mill stuff that isn't in sets won't even pay for the postage on it.

My experience has been that Craftsman sells. Proto, Williams, Snap-on, Mac, SK, some Plomb, some Indestro, some Bonney sell. Bog, Herbrand, Pennens, P&C, New Britain, Mustang, Giller, Thorsen, Husky, Wizard, Powr-Kraft, Action, Walden, Blackhawk, Riverside, etc you might as well discard. Or just put it in large lots filling a flat rate box along with the taiwan and chinese tools and hope that you can get a few dollars plus the flat rate box shipping for it. I sold probably 500 pounds of old tools that way just before I moved last year. A 25 pound medium flat rate box typically brought about $15 plus postage. Mostly I've just given up on even doing that, and just discard them now. Listing, packing, and shipping 500 pounds of tools to get $300, and paying ebay and paypal fees on that just isn't a worthwhile endeavor. Add in a couple of ebay douches that file a not as described claim to get you to give them the tools for free, and it really makes it a non-winner.

I had a lot of tools up on ebay a few weeks ago, and no bidders on 3 successively lower starting prices. I tossed them, and then had an amusing message from someone telling me that they had been watching them and wanted to know if I was going to list them again with a lower price. When I said no, they were discarded, he wrote back that was horrible, because he really wanted and needed them for his collection! I think my last price was down to me getting $3 out of the lot, after postage and ebay/paypal fees. My mode of operation is to list 3 times, and no sale they're discard. With the wide exposure that ebay has, if you don't sell in 3 tries, there's no demand. I do try to sort out the stuff by maker and put it on ebay, as a service to collectors. I'd like to at least make it available; I use ebay as a source for stuff I'm looking for and am grateful that sellers take the time to make it available. But, if it doesn't sell, out it goes.

I think there will be a golden age of tool collecting in about 15 or 20 years, when most of the old stuff has been tossed out. Then, there will be enough competition for the remaining pieces to make them worthwhile for people to catalog and sell them, and they will become more available, although higher priced. As with most collectibles, the value comes when 90% of them have been trashed and the remaining supply becomes sought after. I think the work that Twertsy and Alloy Artifacts has been doing on cataloging information on the tools is the first signs of this happening. Their work will be some of the basis of determining what is rare and sought after, and what is common.

 

[four.cycle]

My experience has been that Craftsman sells. Proto, Williams, Snap-on, Mac, SK, some Plomb, some Indestro, some Bonney sell. Bog, Herbrand, Pennens, P&C, New Britain, Mustang, Giller, Thorsen, Husky, Wizard, Powr-Kraft, Action, Walden, Blackhawk, Riverside, etc you might as well discard.

^ No kidding.
I've been watching a couple socket sets listed on Ebay for over 60 days and neither of them has sold, in spite of price reductions on both.

I would argue, however, that the "sold" listings on Ebay do NOT accurately reflect the actual selling prices in every case. I have seen several items showing the "sold" price as having been the original asking price, when in fact the item was sold for a "best offer". I know this because I bought those items.
Ebay is not always showing where a "best offer" has been accepted, so sellers are (in many cases) being mislead by bogus "sold" prices.

The only solution is to simply not buy the item if you believe it's overpriced. That has limited effect, however, when unknowing buyers are willing to pay more than full retail for used product, as in the case of "G" and "EE" Craftsman sockets recently.

 

[Rileysan]

Ebay prices are set by the buyers not the sellers, although there are "offerers", not sellers who put non-viable starting or buy it now prices on their stuff, and it doesn't sell. If you search only the sold items, you can get a good grasp of what selling prices are, not the wishful thinking. Most of the wishful thinking has been set by the sales of a few desirable sets, then sellers price their common stuff at the same price because they can't see how theirs is different.

I like P&C and had a lot of it in my early mixed tool sets that I used. Eventually I replaced all the mismatch with matched sets of stuff, and it became surplus and just more clutter. I never had enough to put together very good sets of P&C, and the much more common Proto became the basis of what I keep and use.


P&C aren't particularly good sellers. I put my sets out on ebay last year, and they sold, but for very low prices. I put all the miscellaneous stuff I had out for sale a while back for $1.50 per item overall price for the lot, and had no takers, so they went into my discard pile. The same stuff in Craftsman would have brought double that and would sell easily on ebay. I've been selling my accumulation of old tools for a couple of years now, and I see very little demand for most old SAE tools. There is specific demand for some of the harder to find pieces to fill out sets, but the run of the mill stuff that isn't in sets won't even pay for the postage on it.

My experience has been that Craftsman sells. Proto, Williams, Snap-on, Mac, SK, some Plomb, some Indestro, some Bonney sell. Bog, Herbrand, Pennens, P&C, New Britain, Mustang, Giller, Thorsen, Husky, Wizard, Powr-Kraft, Action, Walden, Blackhawk, Riverside, etc you might as well discard. Or just put it in large lots filling a flat rate box along with the taiwan and chinese tools and hope that you can get a few dollars plus the flat rate box shipping for it. I sold probably 500 pounds of old tools that way just before I moved last year. A 25 pound medium flat rate box typically brought about $15 plus postage. Mostly I've just given up on even doing that, and just discard them now. Listing, packing, and shipping 500 pounds of tools to get $300, and paying ebay and paypal fees on that just isn't a worthwhile endeavor. Add in a couple of ebay douches that file a not as described claim to get you to give them the tools for free, and it really makes it a non-winner.

I had a lot of tools up on ebay a few weeks ago, and no bidders on 3 successively lower starting prices. I tossed them, and then had an amusing message from someone telling me that they had been watching them and wanted to know if I was going to list them again with a lower price. When I said no, they were discarded, he wrote back that was horrible, because he really wanted and needed them for his collection! I think my last price was down to me getting $3 out of the lot, after postage and ebay/paypal fees. My mode of operation is to list 3 times, and no sale they're discard. With the wide exposure that ebay has, if you don't sell in 3 tries, there's no demand. I do try to sort out the stuff by maker and put it on ebay, as a service to collectors. I'd like to at least make it available; I use ebay as a source for stuff I'm looking for and am grateful that sellers take the time to make it available. But, if it doesn't sell, out it goes.

I think there will be a golden age of tool collecting in about 15 or 20 years, when most of the old stuff has been tossed out. Then, there will be enough competition for the remaining pieces to make them worthwhile for people to catalog and sell them, and they will become more available, although higher priced. As with most collectibles, the value comes when 90% of them have been trashed and the remaining supply becomes sought after. I think the work that Twertsy and Alloy Artifacts has been doing on cataloging information on the tools is the first signs of this happening. Their work will be some of the basis of determining what is rare and sought after, and what is common.

Wow. No offense meant, but that's quite a diatribe. I'm sorry your experiences have been so difficult - I have no reason to doubt anything you have stated - but speaking as a buyer/collector, I am generally not interested in mixed lots that will net me one or two P&C tools (or name your favorite brand) and 10lbs of things I don't want, nor will I bid $2-$3 on a single wrench and pay $5 shipping. As the seller, I imagine it's not too easy trying to sort out piles by brands either.

So is there a middle ground? I think so - but it lies outside of eBay, et al.

Stop selling "Bog, Herbrand, Pennens, P&C, New Britain, Mustang, Giller, Thorsen, Husky, Wizard, Powr-Kraft, Action, Walden, Blackhawk, Riverside, etc " on eBay.

I am not a big spender, but I have a couple hundred $$ a month to play with. If you tossed all your P&C tools (and Wizard & Powr-Kraft) in a bucket over the period of a month or two, you'd have a customer in me (and likely a few others here). One transaction for all - by the pound or by the piece.

I'm also certain you will find similar interest in other not-so-popular American tool brands as well.

Brian

 

[ssdave]

Rileysan,

Sorry if it looked like a lot of complaining or a rant, not my intent. Tool sales are what they are. The good thing, from the buying side, is that buying/selling prices are low. I guess that was the gist of what I was saying.

I try for the middle ground, I always sort out the miscellaneous by brand and try a sale of them alone. I feel the same way about mixed lots, I hate buying them for the few things I want, and then have to get rid of the rest. That's why I have a lot of the stuff I need to get rid of. So, I try not to do that to buyers. I mostly sell the sorted lots as a semi-service to collectors, they're not money makers worth the time. I do recover some of the costs of buying the original lots and get to keep the things I need for myself. When it becomes a mixed lot is after no sale on the sorted stuff. Although sometimes I just don't even bother getting to the mixed lot stage, just discard them when they don't sell sorted. My though there is if they won't sell as a sorted lot, they're not going to be more valuable as a mixed lot.

I've put most of the collectible stuff I have in old names on here in the classifieds before I put it on ebay. I sold one lot of Bonney and three Proto ratchets that way. The Snap-on I listed sold quickly. The rest sat until I put it on ebay. I put some out at yard sales a few years ago, but after sitting all morning and selling $30 worth at a quarter apiece, I decided my time was best spent somewhere else. As I said before, it is what it is, not really complaining.

 

[Rileysan]

Re: P&C Stuff

Rileysan,

Sorry if it looked like a lot of complaining or a rant, not my intent. Tool sales are what they are. The good thing, from the buying side, is that buying/selling prices are low. I guess that was the gist of what I was saying.

I try for the middle ground, I always sort out the miscellaneous by brand and try a sale of them alone. I feel the same way about mixed lots, I hate buying them for the few things I want, and then have to get rid of the rest. That's why I have a lot of the stuff I need to get rid of. So, I try not to do that to buyers. I mostly sell the sorted lots as a semi-service to collectors, they're not money makers worth the time. I do recover some of the costs of buying the original lots and get to keep the things I need for myself. When it becomes a mixed lot is after no sale on the sorted stuff. Although sometimes I just don't even bother getting to the mixed lot stage, just discard them when they don't sell sorted. My though there is if they won't sell as a sorted lot, they're not going to be more valuable as a mixed lot.

I've put most of the collectible stuff I have in old names on here in the classifieds before I put it on ebay. I sold one lot of Bonney and three Proto ratchets that way. The Snap-on I listed sold quickly. The rest sat until I put it on ebay. I put some out at yard sales a few years ago, but after sitting all morning and selling $30 worth at a quarter apiece, I decided my time was best spent somewhere else. As I said before, it is what it is, not really complaining.

You certainly have good reason to complain if you're selling tools at a yard sale for those prices! If you were closer, I'd want to visit your yard sales - not that my wife would approve ...

Speaking of getting rid of junk, I gave away more than 200 sockets and ~75 wrenches at work last week. All were foreign junk, but we have apprentices who still need tools. It felt good to find someone who could put them to use.

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[stormking]

Picture to large.

 

[ssdave]

Nice sets, Stormking. I really like the boards. Of course, nice sets and particularly old advertising will bring top money. It's the common stuff that collectors already have that are hard to move. There's just not enough guys out there collecting to want every piece, but the few guys that are out there collecting will pay more for the best.

 

[four.cycle]

Rileysan -
I've done a little business with Dave - one of the deals was a "grab bag" of sockets. To be candid, I'm not sure which of us came out ahead on that deal - he got a check for a paltry sum and I got a bag of sockets, some of which are oddballs, but most of which I'll hopefully be able to work into sets at some point.
Honestly, I don't understand how Ebay sellers can even break even peddling onesie-twosies when you take into consideration the fees they pay (which I understand are about 10% of the gross) plus their time and the cost of packaging the item (which has to be done with great care to keep buyers from squawking and then either returning the item or demanding a refund.)
I totally get where Dave's coming from, and there is no way in hell I'd even consider trying to unload oddball sockets on Ebay. I'd be time and money ahead to just give them away in the "Free Socket" thread here, or give them to some deserving young man who needs to fix his '81 Honda.

I don't know how you can sell a socket on Ebay for less than about $5 bucks and even break even, but I've paid as little as 99 cents for some (as well as several Thorsen wrenches.) How does the seller even come out on that?

Middle ground? I wonder if such a thing exists. Maybe the classifieds here, but I haven't tried selling anything through here.

Just my lousy two cents, as always.

BK

 

[Rileysan]

At the swap meet this weekend, I found this four-way wrench at PIR. The seller had no idea who or what P&C tools are and only priced it at $10 because it looked old.

I was so tickled, I could hardly contain myself!




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[Smokeshow69]

At the swap meet this weekend, I found this four-way wrench at PIR. The seller had no idea who or what P&C tools are and only priced it at $10 because it looked old.

I was so tickled, I could hardly contain myself!




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You **** majorly for this find ! I think I have seen those on the bay for around $100 iirc.


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[Smokeshow69]

You **** majorly for this find ! I think I have seen those on the bay for around $100 iirc. But I would not be selling that for sure


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[Rileysan]

You **** majorly for this find ! I think I have seen those on the bay for around $100 iirc.


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I know! [emoji2]

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[oldmantaylor]

I just picked up a P&C 1/4" ratchet. It is clearly a Plomb part stamped with the P&C logo and part number.

 

[3baygarage]

Nice 1/4 ratchet.

Riley that's one of the coolest if not THE coolest old 4 way. I have a few from Craftsman, S-K, Wizard. I wouldn't have left that one behind.

 

[Smokeshow69]

I know! [emoji2]

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I spent the whole swap meet checking every dumb 4 way I came across and did not find one

 

[Rileysan]

I spent the whole swap meet checking every dumb 4 way I came across and did not find one

Funny! I did the same thing too!

I'd like to take a closer look at that P&C carb adjusting tool when you get the chance to post a photo.

Brian

 

[disston]

I have a number of P & C double box end wrenches. I'll try to get some pix later this week.
But here is a list

N89...............1 7/16 X 1 1/2
N87...............1 1/4 X 1 5 /16
N86...............1 1/16 X 1 1/8
N84...............13/16 X 7/8

2225..............25/32 X 3/4
2222..............5/8 X 11/16

I have other P & C tools, some 3/4 dr sockets and what nots. Pix in a couple of days.

 

[Smokeshow69]

Funny! I did the same thing too!



I'd like to take a closer look at that P&C carb adjusting tool when you get the chance to post a photo.



Brian

I will take some the next few days and let you know when I post them . I am currently digging out rotten fence post bases in my back yard . Thanks stupid wind !!


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[jabberwoki]

Rileysan.. sweet grab, your lucky I didn`t go this year I d have nabbed that in a flash. First time in 10 years missing it.

 

[Rileysan]

Rileysan.. sweet grab, your lucky I didn`t go this year I d have nabbed that in a flash. First time in 10 years missing it.

Don't I know it! I doubt any P&C collector would have left that behind. The key was finding it. Let me be the first to admit, I got lucky!

Brian

 

[stormking]

Very nice 4-way Riley. I don't know of a better one than the P&C version.

 

[Smokeshow69]

P&C Stuff

I will take some the next few days and let you know when I post them . I am currently digging out rotten fence post bases in my back yard . Thanks stupid wind !!


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Part number 6528

I have been wanting one of these for awhile and was excited to find it ! But I may be willing to trade for some plvmb !




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[oldmantaylor]

Re: P&C Stuff

Part number 6528

I have been wanting one of these for awhile and was excited to find it ! But I may be willing to trade for some plvmb !




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The Plomb carb adjusting tool has the same part number.

 

[disston]

I am having trouble making my photos work. I'll try to just post a couple at a time to see if that works for now

This is part of a set I'm working on. All double box end with round shaft handles.

The two wrenches on the bottom have 4 digit part numbers. The 4 on top have a 2 digit number with the letter N. Seem to be the same style wrench but may be different vintages.

More later.

 

[disston]

The part number of this wrench is N86. The list of all the P & C wrenches I have so far for this set is below.

N89...............1 7/16 X 1 1/2
N87...............1 1/4 X 1 5 /16
N86...............1 1/16 X 1 1/8
N84...............13/16 X 7/8

2225..............25/32 X 3/4
2222..............5/8 X 11/16

That is it for now. Will have to figure out why my photos are coming out too large on my photo site so I can post the rest of them.

 

[Rileysan]

The part number of this wrench is N86. The list of all the P & C wrenches I have so far for this set is below.

N89...............1 7/16 X 1 1/2
N87...............1 1/4 X 1 5 /16
N86...............1 1/16 X 1 1/8
N84...............13/16 X 7/8

2225..............25/32 X 3/4
2222..............5/8 X 11/16

That is it for now. Will have to figure out why my photos are coming out too large on my photo site so I can post the rest of them.

I recall someone explaining the differences, but finding that post is beyond me right now. In the back of my mind, I seem to remember something about Plomb using P&C tools to fill war orders and that the 'N' numbers are the same as Plomb tools from that era. But that's just a guess.

Brian

 

[Smokeshow69]

I recall someone explaining the differences, but finding that post is beyond me right now. In the back of my mind, I seem to remember something about Plomb using P&C tools to fill war orders and that the 'N' numbers are the same as Plomb tools from that era. But that's just a guess.



Brian

I believe the n designates a navy wrench ??! I have a buch of the n wrenches


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[d42jeep]

Here are a few P&C items I've picked up recently.
-Don

 

[ssdave]

I had one of those P&C double box end wrenches in the P&C stuff that I tried to sell a while back. It was a 25/32 x 3/4". Had it in my tool box for a long time, never had a use for the 25/32 that I can remember. Neat wrench style. I never found the rest of the set that matched it, so eventually replaced it with a Proto set. I doubt I'll use the 25/32 in that set either, but it's there for completeness of the set.

There was also a 15/16 x 1.

 

[disston]

This is a P & C N89. It is 1 1/2 X 1 7/16.

Not perfect maybe but my phone takes better photos in the sun than at night.

 

[Rileysan]

This is a P & C N89. It is 1 1/2 X 1 7/16.

Not perfect maybe but my phone takes better photos in the sun than at night.

I have that exact same wrench (including model #) in a Plomb!

We had touched on that topic briefly - how Plomb was using the P&C factory to meet demand for wartime tools. Very cool find!

Brian

 

[disston]

I've owned it for about 25 years. Even got to use it once to take the port side transmission out of my 38' Chris Craft Commander. Don't have the boat anymore but I still have the wrench.

 

[Username already in use]

Oh no. This thread was 7 pages back! Time to breath a bit of life back into it.
I picked up a nice handful of P&C sockets last weekend at the flea. Pretty good start to a set. Also a nice little DBE (3/8" & 7/16"), which is a duplicate for me if anyone wants to trade.