P&C Stuff

[Provincial]

I found some P&C at an estate sale Friday. From the top, a 1518 Short Bend Offset Socket Wrench 9/16", 2724 3/4" combination, 2814 DOE 3/8 x 7/16, 131 ignition DOE 15/64 x 1/4 and 1710-S 10" adjustable.

I also bought a 2225E round-shank DBE 3/4 x 25/64. It is slightly longer than the regular 2225 version, but I forgot to put it in the photo.

The 1518 caught my eye, but I couldn't make out the marking. I thought I could see an "x" but nothing else I could identify due to surface rust and a very poor stamping. I later went back and bought it because I had the nagging feeling it was a P&C based on the design, which showed up starting in the earliest known catalogs. I cleaned up the logo and behold, it was a P&C! Because it does not have the "snowman" ampersand, I think it is from the 1930's.

I also picked up P&C #2 and #58 pin punches there.

 

[d42jeep]

I found this P&C stubby screwdriver this morning at an estate sale a few blocks from home.
-Don

 

[Provincial]

Here is the marking on the 1518 wrench. No other markings, including part number.

 

[jabberwoki]

X, those dollies are super sweet.

 

[bmwrd0]

Here is the marking on the 1518 wrench. No other markings, including part number.

Provincial, I think I was at that estate sale just a few hours before you.

 

[Provincial]

I figured you would get there first. I am just happy you left something for me!

What goodies did you find there?

 

[MR.X]

X, those dollies are super sweet.

Thanks Steve, I never see the older ones because...well, they're just not out there. I never know when i see the newer ones cause they're unmarked.

 

[bmwrd0]

I figured you would get there first. I am just happy you left something for me!

What goodies did you find there?

I didn't pick up much but a Magna driver set and few Plomb and Williams sockets. I did walk around with the Proto hex set but put it back as I already have one.

 

[Caboverbob]

Haven't taken time to read this entire thread......but I did score a set of P&C combination wrenches today. Missing 2724 (3/4"), 2736 (1-1/8") and 2738 (1-3/16") in case anybody has extras to part with....

Nitro junkie and Union Piledriver

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

I spent a couple days up at the Portland swap meets this weekend and came up with a few things P&C. This P&C top box was sitting out at the track on opening morning pretty close to the starting line and when I asked the nice lady how much she said "Why that old box? How about 5 bucks." Needless to say I scooped it up without arguing. The original paint is a little rough but not too bad and after a quick cleaning it's getting loaded up with some tools. Ed.

 

[bmwrd0]

Very nice Ed. Very nice.

 

[Provincial]

Saturday I went to an estate sale an found a couple of P&C combos.

Photo 1: 13/16 and 3/4 sizes. The two to the right of the channellocks.


At the local flea market this weekend I found some P&C.

Photo 2: Empty box for DOE wrenches and 8608 ball pein hammer
Photo 3: End of empty box

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Good grabs, Ed and Jock. The cardboard wrench box is in minty condition!

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

Very nice Ed. Very nice.

Thanks bmw....I saw a few guys I knew up there and did pick up a few neat things but with the rough weather stayed home the last day.

Ed, that's a great P&C box. I'd have bought it at that price, just to get the badge for my collection.....

I think that is about the going rate for a bare badge Dave....I know I'd gladly give $5 for Craftsman chevron or heritage emblems I need to dress up a couple boxes.

I'm not sure the years P&C was pop riveting their badge on these 1225D's but I did find it in an online catalog from 64' I believe. I also saw a pic of the same box and badge with all red drawers, I think Rileysan has that one. Also a couple pics of really nice clean P&C boxes with the grey drawers turned up in a search of the entire site. Ed.

 

[Rileysan]

One of my P&C finds at the Portland swap meet.

Brian

 

[bmwrd0]

Gah! You didn't show me that Rileysan! I need one of those to make a trifecta of boxed sets.

 

[Rileysan]

Gah! You didn't show me that Rileysan! I need one of those to make a trifecta of boxed sets.

I found it on Sunday morning. It apparently sat undiscovered all weekend - lucky me!

The best part is that I have the complete set of tools to complete it. As you no doubt can tell, it's an incomplete, mixed set.

Brian

 

[bmwrd0]

That label is very nice, and not the only nice labeled box you found at the swap!

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

I found it on Sunday morning. It apparently sat undiscovered all weekend - lucky me!

The best part is that I have the complete set of tools to complete it. As you no doubt can tell, it's an incomplete, mixed set.

Brian

Nice box find there for sure Brian. With all the vendors and people packed in the Expo buildings I bet several neat treasures went unfound the first two days...still that box must not have been open or no way that could have lasted til Sunday. Good job getting in there and digging it out. Ed.

 

[Smokeshow69]

I spent a couple days up at the Portland swap meets this weekend and came up with a few things P&C. This P&C top box was sitting out at the track on opening morning pretty close to the starting line and when I asked the nice lady how much she said "Why that old box? How about 5 bucks." Needless to say I scooped it up without arguing. The original paint is a little rough but not too bad and after a quick cleaning it's getting loaded up with some tools. Ed.

Nice find Ed! As you know, that box is made by Duplex for proto. I have a couple proto la ones I use as user boxes and they are fantastic! Rileysan also found me a full duplex stack he found at the swap!


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[Private Lugnutz]

In doing some research several weeks ago on Duplex (they made the boxes with the long cross handle operating cantilevers on the ends, on the outside of the box, of which I am a huge fan, for themselves as well as many customers, e.g., Snap-on, Old Forge, etc), I was surprised to discover that Plomb (technically, Pendleton Tool Technologies Inc. at the time) bought them out in 1958 after a fire destroyed the Sherman, NY plant, and moved the operation to a new plant in Ft Smith, Arkansas. I don't collect that era so I don't know if they only used the plant for in-house PTTI boxes (e.g., Proto, PENENS, Fleet, Challenger, etc) or if they continued making boxes for others. I guess the latter would be an odd arrangement.

 

[Smokeshow69]

In doing some research several weeks ago on Duplex (they made the boxes with the long cross handle operating cantilevers on the ends, on the outside of the box, of which I am a huge fan, for themselves as well as many customers, e.g., Snap-on, Old Forge, etc), I was surprised to discover that Plomb (technically, Pendleton Tool Technologies Inc. at the time) bought them out in 1958 after a fire destroyed the Sherman, NY plant, and moved the operation to a new plant in Ft Smith, Arkansas. I don't collect that era so I don't know if they only used the plant for in-house PTTI boxes (e.g., Proto, PENENS, Fleet, Challenger, etc) or if they continued making boxes for others. I guess the latter would be an odd arrangement.

Very good info ! My proto la boxes are not labeled duplex but they obviously are made by them. My duplex boxes are labeled ft. Smith Arkansas


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[Private Lugnutz]

Smoke,

In case you ever need backup, I will x-post the info here...

So, here is a snippet-only view of an article on the subject...

As I said on the thread where we got into this a little bit (concerning an 'Old Forge' box), that's a little ambiguous. It could mean that PTTI already owned Duplex when the fire burned the old site down. Or it could mean that PTTI acquired what was left of Duplex after the fire.

The earliest ad I can find of Duplex tool boxes where Duplex is explicitly identified as a subsidiary of PTTI is this ad, in Popular Mechanics, January 1959, when the address was already Fort Smith, Arkansas. My thinking is if they had already owned Duplex as a subsidiary, why wouldn't there be earlier ads? And a fire seems like an opportunity, and one thing Plomb was good at was seizing opportunities.

 

[Smokeshow69]

Smoke,

In case you ever need backup, I will x-post the info here...

So, here is a snippet-only view of an article on the subject...

As I said on the thread where we got into this a little bit (concerning an 'Old Forge' box), that's a little ambiguous. It could mean that PTTI already owned Duplex when the fire burned the old site down. Or it could mean that PTTI acquired what was left of Duplex after the fire.

The earliest ad I can find of Duplex tool boxes where Duplex is explicitly identified as a subsidiary of PTTI is this ad, in Popular Mechanics, January 1959, when the address was already Fort Smith, Arkansas. My thinking is if they had already owned Duplex as a subsidiary, why wouldn't there be earlier ads? And a fire seems like an opportunity, and one thing Plomb was good at was seizing opportunities.

Some very good info and questions as well! I have not done much research so I will have to look into it !


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[Private Lugnutz]

John E. Coe, the inventor of the original cantilevered box that gave Duplex its start, was operating Duplex Manufacturing Corporation in Sherman, NY as late as 1946, for sure. And the article I found on the fire itself...

...references Paul Coe, John E. Coe's son, and makes no mention of any ownership by PTTI.

So I am still fairly sure that any "Duplex" boxes (Proto, P&C, etc) made before 1958 were contracted to Duplex, and any "Duplex" boxes (Proto, P&C, etc) made after 1958 were made by Duplex as a subsidiary of PTTI.

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

Thanks for all the great discussion on Duplex Smoke and Lugz. I had not realized there was a PTTI connection. I also picked up one of the Duplex boxes with the long cross handle and cantilevered drawers at that swap meet, mostly because the wife liked the looks of it and for $10 I figured I couldn't go wrong.

 

[Provincial]

Bumping this thread with a pair of P&C #1202 pliers from last weeks flea market. This version of the logo looks pretty classy!

 

[Magnum440d100]

The only P&C I own so far. I picked it up recently (this year) and it has earned its keep!

 

[MR.X]

Picked these up yesterday.
1" Hex, 1/2" drive swivel socket extension, a screwdriver socket attachment, 3/4" 12 pt. Ford rear main bearing wrench and a cool shop mod short bend L breaker. Added pics of other P&C rear main bearing wrenches for comparison.

 

[HeelSpur]

Picked these up yesterday.
1" Hex, 1/2" drive swivel socket extension, a screwdriver socket attachment, 3/4" 12 pt. Ford rear main bearing wrench and a cool shop mod short bend L breaker. Added pics of other P&C rear main bearing wrenches for comparison.

Really sweet finds

 

[MR.X]

Really sweet finds

Thanks!

Can you post a picture of the socket openings on the Ford wrench? Thanks!

Here's a shot of one of each style, the one I got yesterday is at the top. If you need a shot looking straight down I'd have to clean out the grease before you'd be able to make out any production details.

 

[Sunset_Z28]

Came across this little guy today. I’m not really sure if I should call it an ignition wrench or a combination. I haven’t had any luck finding another like it.

 

[Provincial]

P&C listed the 2708 as a Combination Wrench, which should settle the question as to what to call it. Cute little thing, isn't it?

 

[Provincial]

Abused 6265 T-handle. Interesting because of the grayish handle mated to the (peeling) chrome head. Perhaps using up wartime handles?

 

[Provincial]

Today I was using a no-name pipe wrench with " Heavy Duty 10" " forged into the handle, when I noticed that there was something stamped into the cheek of the head. It reads "P&C 1810-HD mfd. USA".

It is different from the Danielson P&C's that I am used to seeing. I always thought this was an imported Rigid knock-off, as it resembled a Rigid. Upon close inspection, it really does look like a Rigid.

I found this wrench offered in the 1959 P&C catalog.

Photo 1 shows the markings.
Photo 2 shows the whole wrench
Photo 3 compares this wrench to a Danielson-made P&C 18"

I'll show closeups of details in the next post.

 

[Provincial]

I took photos of details of the P&C Heavy Duty 10" and they sure look like a Rigid.

Photo 1 is the spring in the head
Photo 2 is more of the spring in the head
Photos 4 & 5 are the two sides of the Jaw and nut
Photo 6 appears to be a date mark on the jaw.

I know that there has been quite a discussion on who made some Craftsman pipe wrenches. This one seems to me to be built just like a Rigid. The only difference from the Rigid I compared it to was the two-band knurl on the nut of the Rigid.

 

[Rileysan]

Here's a gem I got back in April.

P&C No. 0424, 3/4" single off-set DBE wrench. Included is a capture from the 1928 catalog.

Brian

 

[d42jeep]

Today I was using a no-name pipe wrench with " Heavy Duty 10" " forged into the handle, when I noticed that there was something stamped into the cheek of the head. It reads "P&C 1810-HD mfd. USA".

It is different from the Danielson P&C's that I am used to seeing. I always thought this was an imported Rigid knock-off, as it resembled a Rigid. Upon close inspection, it really does look like a Rigid.

I found this wrench offered in the 1959 P&C catalog.

Photo 1 shows the markings.
Photo 2 shows the whole wrench
Photo 3 compares this wrench to a Danielson-made P&C 18"

I'll show closeups of details in the next post.

I would agree that your P&C pipe wrench appears to have been made by Ridgid. I have a small early Proto wrench stamped in the same area that has identical construction cues. I also have a later Proto which has a different tensioning method with a single coil spring and clip below the moveable jaw. I would question whether the red wrench was made by Ridgid.
-Don

 

[RubiconJK]

Bought this little P&C 100 #P3209-2, 3/8" drive ratchet at the flea market today. It cleaned up nicely although it has plenty of scars. Operates very smoothly. Let me know if anyone is piecing a set of these together as this will go in my trade box.

 

[Rileysan]

Bought this little P&C 100 #P3209-2, 3/8" drive ratchet at the flea market today. It cleaned up nicely although it has plenty of scars. Operates very smoothly. Let me know if anyone is piecing a set of these together as this will go in my trade box.

Outstanding! I have one in a socket set I bought a few years ago from Goodwill but haven't seen another since. My P&C set with the same ratchet as yours came in a plastic box and is identical to this Fleet set (pictures borrowed from Google).

Brian