Packard Built Rolls Royce Merlin Tool Kit AT9368

[MR.X]

Is there any reference for that date for that kit , as I couldn't find anything .
Carl

Don't take offense at this but I thought this was a trap question. Is there a specific reason you would think early 50's? All the tools are war era by date code and other tells. I do think there was a previous tool roll and assembly designation but still...

 

[steel 35]

Still need three pcs to finish.

please update your missing #s
I have seen pieces in your kit and just dug deep yesterday, for others.

 

[Littlebuddy]

Don't take offense at this but I thought this was a trap question. Is there a specific reason you would think early 50's? All the tools are war era by date code and other tells. I do think there was a previous tool roll and assembly designation but still...

No offence taken .
I just couldnt find the tool roll number in a wartime Packard service manual reference , but the number does start to come close to those used postwar .

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Is there any reference for that date for that kit , as I couldn't find anything .

I have never seen a manual, or any other document, if that's what you mean, and the only Admiralty Fleet Order I have with "tool schedules" oddly only includes Wright, PWA, and several special components (e.g., Holley, Chandler, Scintilla, etc), no Merlin, probably because it's strictly covering US aircraft and equipment, not US equipment installed in British aircraft (such as the complex Packard/Rolls-Royce/RAF/Merlin case). But, in addition to this most salient point...

All the tools are war era by date code and other tells.

...I would add the fact that I don't believe Packard was continuing to provide engines to Rolls-Royce for Merlins or any other applications that would require a kit with a logistics nomenclature (AT-xxxx) associated with the USAAF. The engines were of course wildly popular and snagged out of surplus with everyone looking to soup up their planes for Bendix, Cleveland, and Thompson trophy races, and many are still being used today, but I am not aware of Packard production, let alone toolkit production, in the 50's. I could be wrong.

 

[Littlebuddy]

This is from the Packard manual that is 1950's and the higher AT number do seem to be getting close to these from this manual

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks. Good info.

 

[Littlebuddy]

Screenshot of some of the manuals I have checked through

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Looks like you've got plenty of references to possibly help you make a rough estimate, numerically, if the parts numbering schemes seem to indicate a pattern of sequentiality. snapmom's label kit number, AT-9368, compared to other kit numbers, for example. I don't know enough about Merlins or their many variants to know if the the 68-69 on the label helps narrow it down to wartime.

 

[MR.X]

Hi. Yeah, I assumed you weren't just pulling early 50's out of thin air. I have a 42/43 manual somewhere that goes up into the low 9XXX's ( for squadron level kits) but I know for a fact doesn't include the 9368 number. So an obvious theory might be that they came out with the new roll with the handy inventory and storage diagram later as an improvement.

 

[MR.X]

BTW, do you have numbers and or pics of any earlier rolls?

 

[Littlebuddy]

BTW, do you have numbers and or pics of any earlier rolls?

I'm gradually going through the manuals searching for that particular number of Snapmums just in case I have overlooked it.
I have 42 (?) related roll kit number and tool list

 

[Littlebuddy]

I am wondering if this AT 9368 is part of a larger kit? But nothing as availed itself to me yet

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Nothing more to add but some favorite eye candy.

 

[Littlebuddy]

BTW, do you have numbers and or pics of any earlier rolls?

 

[Littlebuddy]

That is from 1942 the one above

 

[snapmom]

The AT9368 is for engines 68-69 as shown on the label. Might be part of the AT93xx as in 68. From the attached you can follow the progress of the merlins, also figure out that the 68-69 were first used in the P51 model B. from there you can see that the first model B that was fitted with the 68 was late 1942. The 68-69 was used in the B-F models. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Rolls-Royce_Merlin_variants

 

[Littlebuddy]

The AT9368 is for engines 68-69 as shown on the label. Might be part of the AT93xx as in 68. From the attached you can follow the progress of the merlins, also figure out that the 68-69 were first used in the P51 model B. from there you can see that the first model B that was fitted with the 68 was late 1942. The 68-69 was used in the B-F models. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Rolls-Royce_Merlin_variants

Plausible idea !

 

[snapmom]

Items I need to finish my set.
AT8065 small adj. wrench
AT8030 some sort of plunger tools with a cable.
AT9209 Stubby large pronged socket.

 

[Littlebuddy]

Time to start looking for the tools now myself !!

 

[Littlebuddy]

The AT9368 is for engines 68-69 as shown on the label. Might be part of the AT93xx as in 68. From the attached you can follow the progress of the merlins, also figure out that the 68-69 were first used in the P51 model B. from there you can see that the first model B that was fitted with the 68 was late 1942. The 68-69 was used in the B-F models. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Rolls-Royce_Merlin_variants

In your kit you are working on , do you have the AT9216 9/16 crow foot ?

 

[VintageVaries]

I have been collecting this kit passively over the last 2 years probably however I think I have reached my end I just don’t feel like I have the commitment to attempt to complete it anymore. Does anyone know of any kits that have came up on the market roughly 80-90% complete? I’m struggling to figure out a rough price that it would be worth so I can decide whether to move it onwards or just hold on to it. Local specialist tool auctions near me have never heard/seen the kit so they don’t seem optimistic they will get the right clientele. Thank you for your help

 

[snapmom]

There is no AT9216 crow foot in this set. maybe in a different set, as there are several different sets.

 

[snapmom]

Its been a few years since a near complete set has come up. Put in on ebay and start it at 1500 an see what happens.
If you have any of the three I need holler at me if you are interested in selling them.

 

[Littlebuddy]

Just a s ippwt of information that might help in where and when these 9368 kits were used etc .
This is from the 1949 service manual for the 68 69 Merlins

 

[snapmom]

Well at least I can figure out the at8030 tool is a like grabber type tool 15”

 

[Oldtuleguy]

You have a pretty complete kit of some pretty obscure stuff so kudos! Looks good!

 

[MR.X]

Just a s ippwt of information that might help in where and when these 9368 kits were used etc .
This is from the 1949 service manual for the 68 69 Merlins

so obviously there are different manuals for the same engines.... parts, overhaul, service, tool...does the wartime ( 1944) 68 69 manual you showed in post 87 not have the tool kit addressed in it? Thanks.

 

[MR.X]

Here's that 9701 mentioned in the screenshot from post 104. That's just a standard wallet next to it for size comparison.

 

[Littlebuddy]

Here's that 9701 mentioned in the screenshot from post 104. That's just a standard wallet next to it for size comparison.

That's the one I was looking for .
I'm pretty sure that particular roll is in the tools list .
More delving to do !

 

[MR.X]

Inside. All the tools are for the Packard engine but some don't match the labels, the adjustable is in a socket pouch for example. Don't think I'm being inspected anytime soon so...

 

[Farmer J.]

Inside. All the tools are for the Packard engine but some don't match the labels, the adjustable is in a socket pouch for example. Don't think I'm being inspected anytime soon so...

OK, slight thread drift coming up.. Apologies in advance! That giant clip in the toolkit which holds the sockets together in a bunch. I understand that it is called a 'Fokker Pin'.
Question, does anyone know if that has anything to do with Fokker aircraft, or was it invented by Anthony Fokker ? So far my research has not found the answer to this, but as some 'airplane guys' look at this thread maybe some of you know ..

 

[ttpete]

OK, slight thread drift coming up.. Apologies in advance! That giant clip in the toolkit which holds the sockets together in a bunch. I understand that it is called a 'Fokker Pin'.
Question, does anyone know if that has anything to do with Fokker aircraft, or was it invented by Anthony Fokker ? So far my research has not found the answer to this, but as some 'airplane guys' look at this thread maybe some of you know ..

There is an AN cowl retaining pin that looks similar to the Fokker pin. It's not used much anymore. It could have been used on Fokker aircraft. I can't find my AN book right now, so one of you may have one to refer to for the number.

 

[Littlebuddy]

Here's that 9701 mentioned in the screenshot from post 104. That's just a standard wallet next to it for size comparison.

 

[snapmom]

The clips are easy to make.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

All you need are some pliers and a coat hanger

 

[ttpete]

Here's the answer. It took a minute on Google.

Stainless Steel Safety Fokker Pin | Wire Rope Shop

Stainless Steel Safety Fokker Pin | Wire Rope Shop

www.wireropeshop.co.uk

 

[MR.X]

Here's the answer. It took a minute on Google.

Stainless Steel Safety Fokker Pin | Wire Rope Shop

Stainless Steel Safety Fokker Pin | Wire Rope Shop

www.wireropeshop.co.uk

I clicked on that and am seeing the Ad for a Fokker Pin but nothing about why it's called that.

 

[Farmer J.]

I clicked on that and am seeing the Ad for a Fokker Pin but nothing about why it's called that.

Me too. I could also make one, or buy one (even in stainless steel) but I just wondered about the NAME and who invented it. So far all the information I can find about that is purely anecdotal and unreliable.
Similar design to a 'safety pin' but that is not the same and well documented, invented by Walter Hunt in 1859.
I may contact these people and see if they know..

Fokker and his planes (English)

On this site you will find many photos and information about the aircraft built by or under the name of Fokker.

www.fokker-history.com

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Question, does anyone know if that has anything to do with Fokker aircraft, or was it invented by Anthony Fokker ?

There is an AN cowl retaining pin that looks similar to the Fokker pin. It's not used much anymore. It could have been used on Fokker aircraft.

So far all the information I can find about that is purely anecdotal and unreliable.

I believe the answer to your first question is a resounding "Yes", J.

Akin to our common use of the term "Cotter" for every type of split pin, in the aviation industry, it looks like the common term "Fokker pin" evolved and endured genuinely from a century of esoteric use by aviation engineers referring to any simple, strong, but flexible, and quickly attachable and detachable latching "safety-like" pin, that is directly attributed in numerous early aviation-related periodicals I have found to Anthony Fokker in the 1920's, at least as early as the F.VIII and possibly the Junkers.

Here are two articles with the strongest, clearest evidence.

 

[Farmer J.]

Thank you Lugz for finding those documents, I thought there must be something like those on record. As you say, they give a clear link to Anthony Fokker and also explain why they were used in the Merlin engine tool kit as by then they were in common use in aviation.