Paintless Dent Repair?

[eidnoc]

Being the industry standard these days, I will show you mine if you show me yours!. My set-up is nice. Those traveling Busters that have seen it all say the same thing! That is a nice set-up!. Why doesnt every well equipted shop have a set-up?.

 

[mslisaj]

Well, I don't have one to show you but this is a subject I have been hungry for information on. It's an extremely interesting idea so I hope someone will show you theirs so we can all see yours..................

Lisa

 

[Zeke]

I've got a hair dryer and some dry ice.

 

[MScott]

You might want to check out this thread:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110984&highlight=Paintless+Dent+Repair

BTW....no relation.

 

[mslisaj]

Well this poor thread is starving and I have checked out the other link. So the bottom line is Eidnoc is not going to share and take the mystery away.

The folks that know paintless dent repair are keeping the mystery of the bones in the skull and will only spill them under the light a full moon..................

I did check out the other thread and there truly is nothing there except to acknowledge the mystery of the process and congratulate some one about their magic.

Lisa

 

[JimVonBaden]

Does anyone have the video where the guy took out a huge dent in an SUV and left not a mark? It is not black magic, and not that hard. You just need to understand how metal works.

Of course it wont work on hard creases, or some compound curves, but large and small it does often work.

Jim

PS The OP seems a bit suspicious.

 

[Train]

Lot's of videos on YouTube.

 

[wornoutoldman]

It's nowhere near as mysterious as many would have you believe. First get and read this book http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001GUZP4O/?tag=atomicindus08-20 It will help you to understand the methodology of dent repair/removal. Next you'll need something like this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MTF-1111/ I'd get a few different sizes/styles and lastly stop by HF for this http://www.harborfreight.com/crossbar-dent-repair-kit-66957.html you can read my review of this tool on HFs site just look at the MC review. I've made it a new hobby of mine to perform PDR on family and friends vehicles. They are always amazed and it gives me something to do.

 

[Zeke]

It's nowhere near as mysterious as many would have you believe. First get and read this book http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001GUZP4O/?tag=atomicindus08-20 It will help you to understand the methodology of dent repair/removal. Next you'll need something like this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MTF-1111/ I'd get a few different sizes/styles and lastly stop by HF for this http://www.harborfreight.com/crossbar-dent-repair-kit-66957.html you can read my review of this tool on HFs site just look at the MC review. I've made it a new hobby of mine to perform PDR on family and friends vehicles. They are always amazed and it gives me something to do.

Excellent. I, too, have dabbled in the black art. And I have no specific tools. I'm not great, but I've had some success on a black car even.

 

[pipsters]

Is this something a PDR guy could get out easily? Also if possible what would a fair $$ be if I brought it to them?

I dropped a cabinet on my car one day as it slipped out of my hands.

 

[Gary S]

I've seen it done around here after a summer hail storm, but I also see lots of unhappy customers the following winter when the temperature drops down to -30 and the dents return.

 

[mslisaj]

Thanks Wornoutoldman, while Eidnoc raised the open questioned and then vanished, you got to the meat and potatoes of the subject. It's funny that you mention that book as I bought it a few years ago and read it. It has some great old pictures of old cars and old metal. After reading the book I figured out it was something that you just couldn't read about and go do. Some of the theories of looking at a dent and how it started and where it finished and backing our of the process I really didn't get. But then I haven't had the time to get an old fender or piece of sheet metal and practice but the book is a fantastic window into an old school art and one day I'm going to work on it.

To look at the "pick" and cross bar dent repair system is an interesting idea too. I have one of those maddening little dents in my show car where a 4X4 just happened to fall and the corner caught the corner of the car just right to leave a dent. This is the kind of dent that someone with a light touch of a pick could massage it right on out. But thanks for that information too.

On Youtube I will have to go over there and spend some time. But what I have see of that are the special lights and the reflections and the straight edges. Again this is something that you really need to practice to get it right....................

Thanks again for taking your time to share some valuable information..............

Lisa

 

[Zeke]

Is this something a PDR guy could get out easily? Also if possible what would a fair $$ be if I brought it to them?

I dropped a cabinet on my car one day as it slipped out of my hands.

I've seen ones that bad come out. You have no sharp creases and the paint is not fractured, right? Otherwise....

 

[pipsters]

I've seen ones that bad come out. You have no sharp creases and the paint is not fractured, right? Otherwise....

No the paint isn't spidered or anything

 

[wornoutoldman]

Is this something a PDR guy could get out easily? Also if possible what would a fair $$ be if I brought it to them?

I dropped a cabinet on my car one day as it slipped out of my hands.

In my completely unprofessional opinion, absolutely.

Thanks Wornoutoldman, while Eidnoc raised the open questioned and then vanished, you got to the meat and potatoes of the subject. It's funny that you mention that book as I bought it a few years ago and read it. It has some great old pictures of old cars and old metal. After reading the book I figured out it was something that you just couldn't read about and go do. Some of the theories of looking at a dent and how it started and where it finished and backing our of the process I really didn't get. But then I haven't had the time to get an old fender or piece of sheet metal and practice but the book is a fantastic window into an old school art and one day I'm going to work on it.

To look at the "pick" and cross bar dent repair system is an interesting idea too. I have one of those maddening little dents in my show car where a 4X4 just happened to fall and the corner caught the corner of the car just right to leave a dent. This is the kind of dent that someone with a light touch of a pick could massage it right on out. But thanks for that information too.

On Youtube I will have to go over there and spend some time. But what I have see of that are the special lights and the reflections and the straight edges. Again this is something that you really need to practice to get it right....................

Thanks again for taking your time to share some valuable information..............

Lisa

Reading that book had just the opposite effect for me. Rather it was an epiphany. It can be a slow go of a read but suddenly it all made sense. I'd suggest you give it another try and see if you don't understand it in a different light.

The special light boards and straight edges are definitley for the pros. If I'm going to pay somebody to do it I want the full treatment with all the bells and whistles!

 

[mslisaj]

Warnoutoldman, I'm definitely going to read it again. The subject really interested me and the book was the answer. I just read it and at the time I didn't have the time or space to devote myself to trying it out. I have both now and will dig the book out and reread it.

I was mainly making the point that the book didn't make the repair a 1,2,3 proposition. I believe your right when you say you finally got it and it worked that is the point I need to get too.

Thanks so much for the feed back and the comments.

Lisa

 

[DCarr]

a friend of mine taught a paintless dent removal class for about 15 yrs.

I'll see if I can get a picture of some / all of his picks. And get information on what he preferred to make them from.

 

[HKB3]

Does anyone have the video where the guy took out a huge dent in an SUV and left not a mark? It is not black magic, and not that hard. You just need to understand how metal works.

Of course it wont work on hard creases, or some compound curves, but large and small it does often work.

Jim

PS The OP seems a bit suspicious.

I have the metal part down...it is the paint part I need practice with

 

[eidnoc]

No secret, I have seen good and ok for people that want the money. those of you that want quality repair?, It is there. I did not want this forum to say I BAILED. Pictures are just that!. Only ment for you to see what you are ment to see!.

 

[russcody]

Just want to add to the subject that, you may want to look into the corrision issues if done wrong. If whoever does the pdr dosent use a rubber tip and uses a metal tip could cause damage to the e-coat on the backside of the pannel. Another problem is if the paint get cracked on the frontside of the pannel, it gives moisture a way to slip past some of the layers of paint and could get down to bare metal. IMO

 

[1948]

i wanna know how these people are getting dents without scratching the paint off, and without stretching the metal, and without loosening the paint on top of the metal.....

 

[darkk]

Here we go again, get your torches out gentlemen. I'm a retired body man / fabricator after 45 years in the business. I am well versed in easy dent removal with heat/cold, I can sling mud with the best of them. I spent many years doing lead work, pick and file, bumping etc. It would appear to most people that they (paintless repair) can fix anything without any paint work. That is a myth. First let me give credit where it is due. I have seen some impressive repair done with paintless repair. To me the easy dent is easy to fix. If the metal has an actual crease in it, paintless repair can make it look decent but not perfect, in some cases just better but not right. In other cases they will try but it doesn't work out, not at all. Of course the same can be said about some people that do body work using fillers and paint etc.

 

[buening]

Being the industry standard these days, I will show you mine if you show me yours!. My set-up is nice. Those traveling Busters that have seen it all say the same thing! That is a nice set-up!. Why doesnt every well equipted shop have a set-up?.

All the picks, lighting and reflective board, glue puller, sticks with all kinds of bends and tip shapes (whale tails, etc), popsicles, braces, and more. Your turn

 

[JimVonBaden]

All the picks, lighting and reflective board, glue puller, sticks with all kinds of bends and tip shapes (whale tails, etc), popsicles, braces, and more. Your turn

That looks like some very specialized tools! I bet that the company that makes them doesn't mass produce, and that would make that kit expensive. Would you mind sharing the cost, approximately, of your kit?

Jim

 

[buening]

$2500

 

[JimVonBaden]

$2500

Thanks,

That actually sounds not so bad. I was expecting it to cost more.

Jim

 

[mercman1951]

Here we go again, get your torches out gentlemen. I'm a retired body man / fabricator after 45 years in the business. I am well versed in easy dent removal with heat/cold, I can sling mud with the best of them. I spent many years doing lead work, pick and file, bumping etc. It would appear to most people that they (paintless repair) can fix anything without any paint work. That is a myth. First let me give credit where it is due. I have seen some impressive repair done with paintless repair. To me the easy dent is easy to fix. If the metal has an actual crease in it, paintless repair can make it look decent but not perfect, in some cases just better but not right. In other cases they will try but it doesn't work out, not at all. Of course the same can be said about some people that do body work using fillers and paint etc.

Big, generalized dents in the middle of a panel are a lot easier to remove, vs. small tight "pings", or dents with a crease over a body line.

I had to re-bodywork the flat side of a BMW once that had a bunch of 'pimples' where some paintless dent "expert" tried to push the dents out too far, about 100 times. It was borderline ridiculous. Think "reverse door dings", or autobody acne.

The only solution at that point is traditional bodywork...and lots of $$$. IMO, they made it worse than it was.

Bottom line, make sure your paintless guy is good, and not just starting out in this bandwagon trade.

 

[mslisaj]

No secret, I have seen good and ok for people that want the money. those of you that want quality repair?, It is there. I did not want this forum to say I BAILED. Pictures are just that!. Only ment for you to see what you are ment to see!.

Hugh?????

I know writing on a smartphone can be challenging but what did you mean to say here? We haven't seen "yours yet". The folks that have taken their time here to post pictures and solutions I thank you, but it's kind of your turn eidnoc to be a little more specific.................

The bottom line is you did bail on your own forum.................

Lisa

 

[eidnoc]

Yes, chipping the paint is a no-no. Plastic tips are used where visability is an issue for insurance companys. because they will not damage the E-coat. Rubber tips? never seen?. Large repairs require so much massaging that sealers are required on the inside. With some, drilling a hole to be pluged with plastic later is the fastest way, and most people do not care or look. A quality repair requires removing interior trim for the BEST access to the affected area and allows for proper sealing of the serface. Minor sanding and a buff is normal to match the texture of the paint. Picks leave pimpels like texture and you normally use them to blend the texture. I started this to see if anyone has given it a go? and here is my set-up.

 

[eidnoc]

So Sorry Lisa!. I am new to the forum-ing thing and very busy. If you have a hart let me see it, thanks Tom.

 

[mslisaj]

Nice Job!!! You certainly are in the business and have a superbly set up cart. The one or two times I have seen anyone do this magic they always have the light and some kind of reflective edge as I gather you use that to get straight and consistent finishes to the repair. Obviously no amount of reading or the fancy set of tools is going to make you an expert at this. You're in a game that takes a lot of patience and practice................

Thanks for sharing "yours".

Lisa

 

[mslisaj]

No apologies necessary my friend. You just raised a subject that I have been interested in for years. As some of the other responders said this is truly a black magic art to get good at. I appreciate you sharing the pictures and your comments. I have done a lot of body work in my business but I never got so good at straightening metal that I could just paint it. I use a skim coat of filler and I'm good with a paint gun so I have been successful but some day I may try my had and see if I can do the magic one day..................

Lisa

 

[SGKent]

I've have two awesome dentless guys here in Sacramento. My dents have never returned. It is an art form and takes special training, experience and tools. We do each of our three cars once or twice a year. The more dents in a car the more that they attract. Collision repair cannot be fixed this way.

 

[Zeke]

Hey Lisa, check this out.... all done in metal.

 

[eidnoc]

OK!. I got my formal training in KS. at PDQ. Thay provide basic and advanced and sell tools and there site has hail damage info for the chasers. You probably cant tell from photos but my set-up is simple and to the point. Long tools for van roofs. curved tools, Inflatable bags, window protecters, wedges, for doors, got to get behind braces!. Shorter tools with interchangeable tips, nylon for roofs deck and hood, no scratch. Whale tails and mini's to get under braces. D-rings, s-hooks, suction cups for supporting tools. Lights for indoor, reflective boards for outside. And yes knock down tool and paddel, you will over push one so you need to knock it back down. Heat gun, Glue sticks, Pullers and etc. Back in my day arguing with ins.co. to sand and buff was a challange. now expected. You know how long it takes for paint to cure. Someone said that there is a time and place. Biggest bummer is when it is 50/50 ins. want it on the cheap and blend time isn't there, mostly econo ins. So the tech has to take it in the a.. ear.

 

[mslisaj]

Totally amazing...................

I had a guy work for me in my shop that could do that and it's amazing to watch. Especially shrinking the metal and then putting it back where it belonged. He was a true artist. I have the generic body tools like what are sitting on the table and one of these days I'm going to get that metal bumping down to the art. Then maybe I'll build myself a cart...................

Lisa

 

[eidnoc]

I thought you might want to know, working with aluminum is a differant animal, and what i was getting at with the minimum tools was that people that buy the mega kit will only use there favs. and the rest sit and collect dust or are re shaped to there needs. Numero-uno! never repair from one angle, always adj. viewing angle reflection is everything!.

 

[Zeke]

Totally amazing...................

I had a guy work for me in my shop that could do that and it's amazing to watch. Especially shrinking the metal and then putting it back where it belonged. He was a true artist. I have the generic body tools like what are sitting on the table and one of these days I'm going to get that metal bumping down to the art. Then maybe I'll build myself a cart...................

Lisa

Thanks. There is one bit of lead at the top inner side of the headlight bucket. I had to weld up a crack there and it was a little thin. The rest primed up with a high build primer and was blocked out for paint. I quit painting awhile back and will turn a project over to the painter when I think (s)he can do it all with paint and sandpaper.

In reality, I have quit metalwork too. Shoulder problems.

 

[PDR John]

I don't keep pics of my tools, but if I had to rebuy everything I carry it would cost $15,000.

PDR is an talent orientated profession, some of you need to find more talented dent guy's. I've been a body man for over 20 years and I still only trust a handful of dent guys.

Most of the problem repairs you see come 2 types: Newbies and guys that don't care.

It will take years of dedicated practice to become proficient at fixing dents. The average quarter size dent will require 250 or more pushes. The sharpness of the dent changes all aspects of the repair. Start at the deepest part and slowly work the dent out. Just remember you have a + - of about 1mm.


At present I'm working in a body shop east of St. Louis fixing hail cars.

I also back my repairs with a life time warranty. That is why I work with local body shops, if there ever was problem the shop will fix it and bill me.

 

[darkk]

Unfortunately pick and file work will eventually be gone. The metal on newer cars is so thin that the heat produced from sanding with a DA warps some panels.