People don't understand paying for quality.

[X1 Mike]

So, you're a snitch for reporting poor customer service and an employee who seems intent on sabotaging the company he works for?

That kind of attitude completely explains why morons like the cashier actually have a job in the first place.

In a word, yes.

As a boss I don't want co-workers or customers ratting out every little faux-pas that an employee makes. A good supervisor can see over time if an employee has his **** together or not. Too many people today insist on their little life being perfect and every encounter with an employee to be perfect. You want exceptional customer service? Shop at Neiman Marcus for tools……. Get over yourself.

 

[nate379]

See I am the guy that would by the China stuff and take the $80 saved and buy something else.

Ok, the China stuff may only last 1/2 as long as the good stuff, but I can buy 3 or 4 of them for the same price.

Kind of the same as the "designer" water softeners they sell... $2500 and more!

Hmm, my $450 Lowe's unit works just fine...

 

[zer0cell]

Bosch arguably makes the best jigsaw out there... and have you all tried Bosch's undercut saw? It's pretty damn nice too. I've used it for quite a few different things but it really helps when cutting the bottoms of door casings after ripping out carpet and prepping the rooms for the wood flooring installation... man I don't think I'll ever go back to doing that by hand again.
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006A7TKI?ie=UTF8&tag=hubpages0814-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0006A7TKI">(Here's the link if you want to see it)</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=hubpages0814-20&l=as2&o=1&a=B0006A7TKI" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" />

 

[american lockpicker]

Bosch arguably makes the best jigsaw out there... and have you all tried Bosch's undercut saw? It's pretty damn nice too. I've used it for quite a few different things but it really helps when cutting the bottoms of door casings after ripping out carpet and prepping the rooms for the wood flooring installation... man I don't think I'll ever go back to doing that by hand again.
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006A7TKI?ie=UTF8&tag=hubpages0814-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0006A7TKI">(Here's the link if you want to see it)</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=hubpages0814-20&l=as2&o=1&a=B0006A7TKI" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" />

Actually I was planning on getting one earlier this year but its been outsourced to China now.

 

[zer0cell]

It's up to every person to decide for themselves obviously what is most important. Some people buy cheap, low quality tools but then go out and buy designer jeans which have holes in them to be stylish and pay as much as $80 sometimes (also made in china).

Other people buy their clothes from walmart, and invest in a set of quality tools that are not only more durable but a joy to use. Understand that some people ENJOY using tools which are more comfortable, more durable, and help perform the job a bit better.

I could laugh and make fun of the guy who spends $40 for a t-shirt with the same COO and the same quality as a $5 t-shirt at walmart but just a little logo on it that says "brand x" but guess what? If I was working at the store that was selling those products I would be courteous and realize that I have a job because there are people willing to pay that amount for something.

Everyone has their priorities... and the fact that someone would even mention that somehow purchasing more expensive tools should make you feel guilty because some people are starving... you are so full of yourselves you need to just wake up because you are so naive its not even funny.

But I will stop now because this is a discussion about tools and having fun working... not justifying myself or anyone else on here's passion to some snot nosed, uptight bleeding heart arrogant, naive mofo. Goodnight.

 

[zer0cell]

Actually I was planning on getting one earlier this year but its been outsourced to China now.

Get the refurb one lol... you might get lucky. Mine clearly says "made in Switzerland"

 

[american lockpicker]

Get the refurb one lol... you might get lucky. Mine clearly says "made in Switzerland"

Nice! You should take a pic of it and put it in the old world tool thread.

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28952

 

[zer0cell]

Picture on it's way...

 

[southpier]

So, you're a snitch for reporting poor customer service and an employee who seems intent on sabotaging the company he works for?

That kind of attitude completely explains why morons like the cashier actually have a job in the first place.

huh?......

 

[mrholeshot]

I have NEVER had a cashier question my purchace. Just ring it up and give me the total. Knipex makes a really nice tool. Very well made but I can buy Channellock tools that do the same job,just as well for less money without those big bulky handles. If you need an Insolated tool then it may be worth it. My Lowes carries Knipex as well. Bottom line is that it's your money and you are free to spend it like you want.

 

[tarrbaby]

When my brother-in-law came to my house for a cook-out, he looked around in my garage and commented on all the tools, motorcycles, mowers, etc of good quality and remarked that maybe he should become a union laborer. Even though he is a union operator and makes more money than me per hour. I commeneted that my wife and i work hard for our money, don't stop at the bar every night, don't smoke dope or go thru 5 cases of beer a week. His son never had a new bike or clothes, always yard sale stuff. I told him to stop doing that he could have nice stuff too.

 

[Tom2]

All anyone cares about anymore is price. Doesn't matter if it was made in a 3rd world country by slaves that would kill us if they had the chance. If it lasts a year or two, they throw it away and buy another. I was once one of them. Eventually I slowly realized you end up paying more in the long run if you buy **** from the beginning. Not to mention going through the hassle of buying something twice.


Most people don't use tools that often, they wouldn't get it.

 

[mrholeshot]

All anyone cares about anymore is price. .

Not so, Most people from what I have seen look for the best value for their hard earned cash. If you need a pair of wire cutters and you have 15 dollars to spend and you need them now you buy the best you can for 15 dollars or less. You don't wait until you have 40 dollars to buy a pair of Kimpex or Snap-Ons and let the job sit around. Price is a huge factor in what you buy. If a Guy only has 5 dollars to spend then he can head down to HF. When it's limited use stuff that only gets occasional use thats fine for that person. It makes no sence to buy a pair of Kimpex side cutters to do one small job and then throw them into a drawer. I personally don't think they are worth the money and I have side cutters from just about every major tool maker. My Channellocks are as good as any others Ive tried. Kimpex makes an excellant product no doubt. Bottom line is they just have to cut wire. It ain't rocket science.

 

[Bolster]

All this hoopla about Knipex! (Sorry, Kuh-NEE-pex, as I discover it's pronounced.) What's up with the Knipex fever on this forum?

There's the competitive and excellent Snap-on/Bahco/French pliers, and they are sold at some attractively low prices on Amazon ($14) with some serious bang-for-the-buck quality; I recently did a detailed writeup, and it hardly registered on the interest meter at all.

Of the few viewers of that post, one pooh-poohed the Bahco and said, "I don't use em because I own Knipex." Well, so do I, and I'm telling you the Bahco are some bitchin' pliers, too!

Yet, multiple redundant pleonastic tautological threads on Knipex.

Why? :

 

[Bull]

You can feed a family of 4 for a month on $100? Holy ****. I spend more that that a month feeding myself alone..

Well, he didn't specify what country that would be in.

 

[kythri]

In a word, yes.

As a boss I don't want co-workers or customers ratting out every little faux-pas that an employee makes. A good supervisor can see over time if an employee has his **** together or not. Too many people today insist on their little life being perfect and every encounter with an employee to be perfect. You want exceptional customer service? Shop at Neiman Marcus for tools……. Get over yourself.

No, I'll continue to shop where I choose, and if I get treated poorly, or an employee is an idiot, I'll do what I choose.

The issue isn't that "too many people today insist" on perfection, it's that too many people today are satisfied providing mediocrity and poor service.

Even a good supervisor can't watch everyone all the time. If an employee is outright rude or overstepping his/her boundaries (as described in the OP), it needs to be reported.

Note that nobody ever suggested "ratting out every little faux-pas" - nice strawman there, make sure it doesn't catch fire, it's been a dry summer.

If you're happy with your sub-par skills and performance, more power to you. Other people actually strive for something more than below-average.

 

[e-tek]

Some people don't know how to mind their business. If another customer in the store makes a comment, just ignore it. If that customer however persists and starts trying to mock you and starts asking questions, simply tell him to mind his own business. IF however someone who actually works in the store starts making negative comments about your purchase or trying to belittle you, I'd call the manager over and tell him/her straight up that one of their employees is making derogatory/inflammatory remarks because you decided to buy some expensive tools... if you raise a big enough fuss you might get the employee fired or put up for review. Then they can go home and be hungry... why on earth would you insult someone who is helping to secure your job. Stupid.

Yikes - you gonna get someone fired over it?

 

[kythri]

huh?......

Apparently to some, you're a snitch if you report a rude employee or poor customer service.

Because, you know, nobody likes uppity people who buy expensive items. Buying expensive things is showing off. It's not hip to be so bourgeois. Apparently, the OP never should have even thought about buying pliers, but instead, donated that money to a homeless shelter.

 

[gatewaysysop]

In a word, yes.

As a boss I don't want co-workers or customers ratting out every little faux-pas that an employee makes. A good supervisor can see over time if an employee has his **** together or not. Too many people today insist on their little life being perfect and every encounter with an employee to be perfect. You want exceptional customer service? Shop at Neiman Marcus for tools……. Get over yourself.

I think the problem is that the vast majority of supervisors/managers/people leaders/whatever tend to be egotistical, narcissistic and lazy idiots who don't pick up on this stuff if someone doesn't point it out for them. Sadly, many of them still won't care when you do, or might even be offended that you point it out.

Why do you think most people have to ask to speak to a manager when they're not getting satisfaction at a store/restaurant/etc.? As an earlier poster said, they can't be everywhere even if they want to be.

Personally, I'd prefer the manager be aware that the employee/service/product/whatever did not meet my expectations. It's up to him/her to decide if my expectations were reasonable or not and take appropriate action if necessary. What they do with my or anyone else's feedback is what makes them a good or bad boss. To say that they don't want as much feedback as possible only shows me that they are lazy. It tells me they would rather not have full information, because they figure they're doing fine by themselves and don't need me telling them how they could improve. Like I said, narcissism at its finest. From my experience, especially in big business, that kind of attitude is rampant among the vast majority of those in leadership, and it's the reason most people don't give honest feedback, if they even give any at all.

 

[Bull]

Note that nobody ever suggested "ratting out every little faux-pas" - nice strawman there, make sure it doesn't catch fire, it's been a dry summer.

Well, this discussion isn't very friendly, but I have to give you credit for the rhetorical flair here. Nice work.

To be clear: I'm not taking a side, I just like that bit of prose there.

 

[Bolster]

Guys, if you don't know Bull's subtle style, that there's a warning.

You guys are rhetorical geniuses and it's a pleasure to read your well stated posts, but it's time to shake hands and move on.

 

[djb2]

There are plenty of people that "understand quality", but don't buy it for good reasons.

I'm buying some basic tools to have at my GF's place in Oakland. It's not a bad neighborhood... for Oakland. The guy behind has had his basement broken into several times over the past few years, and many of his tools stolen. The GPS I got her for Christmas was stolen from her car. I loaned her mine, and it was stolen a few days later. At least they only broke a window and didn't mangle the dash for the factory radio.

Now am I going to buy "legacy quality" tools to keep there? Or even Craftsman? No. Most have been Harbor Freight. And not the expensive H-F stuff. And not without a coupon. The 6 pc pliers set for $7.99, the 3 pc locking pliers set for $5.99, the 3/8" and 1/2" torque wrench for $10 each, etc. The jack and jack stands are used, and look it.

By going low end I get a triple advantage. They are not as appealing to steal. It won't be as painful when they are stolen. And I'll get at least a little satisfaction that the thief won't get much trying to pawn or sell them.

And what about the few good tools that I bought? They'll probably stay hidden in the closet, just like fine china that's never used, while the cheap tools do most of the work. I'll spend the extra few minutes making a 1/12th turn at a time rather than going up to get the GearWrench.

 

[bgott]

Just a thought, the cashier might be under orders from management to push the house brand. That would explain her attitude, the guy behind you just had his nose in your business.

 

[Aberdale]

I believe most people do buy quality . . . .but it tends to be budget based. Most people buy the best quality they can afford. Unfortunately, some just can't afford as much as others, so they buy what they can if they feel confident that the tool will get the job done.

I still have my Thorsen socket and wrench set (Made in India) that I bought in high school in 1974. Are they quality tools? I thought so at the time, and have repaired quite a few autos with them over 30 years. Yes, I've stripped out a couple of the 12 pt. sockets, and broke the 9/16 wrench, but they seemed like pretty good quality until I could compare them to something better. Now the Thorsen set looks pretty poor by comparison.

So, the term "quality" is a moving target, based on what we can afford, and depending on what we compare it against. Knipex vs. other pliers is a fine example. Knipex are great. I own several pairs of their Cobras and their insulated electrical pliers. Are they higher quality than my comparable Channel Locks? I've got quite a few years of additional use on my Channel Locks and have never had a reliability issue. Still work every time, and that, to me, is an indication of quality. So I would have to say no, the Knipex are no better quality than my Channel Locks, but the Knipex feel better for certain applications.

As for your experience at Lowe's, it sounds pretty odd, but whatever. I don't tend to let tellers or others standing in line bear much weight on my decisions, but every once in awhile I'll learn something from the experience.

Dale

 

[Wanna Ride]

Expensive or inexpensive... still seems like a lot of unnecessary fuss. What difference does it make? Pick up the tool, proceed to the cashier, pay and leave. Sometimes we have to just filter out the babble of those around us, while we proceed with our decisions.

It's your decision, and there should be no need to justify to anyone else.

Should be the end of the saga. No need to get you and so many others around you, all hot and bothered. But that's just my two-cents.

 

[treasureseeker]

I buy what I like, and the more I learn about tools the more my taste cost me, other than the deals and finding out the OEMs that the big three rebadges. My sockets are mostly Snap On, pliers Knipex, Screwdrivers, Wiha, Wera. I filled in my SAE sockets with a couple of SK sets as I don’t use it much as my Snap-Ons had a bunch of missing ones but now I replaced them. My wrenches are Snap-on and SK Superkrome. My Ratchets are Craftsman polished and Snap on. I am in process of replacing the Craftsman tools like the brake spring pliers with Snap-on. I won’t pay truck prices other than for replacing a single socket or wrench but buy them on Ebay. I have a Kennedy box and a HF. Almost all tools purchased at a good price. Years back I sold on Ebay and then with the profits purchased from Chads. He took PayPal and sold Wiha, Wera, Knipex and I never had to use my checking account. Secrets are good.

 

[Bolster]

Well you guys are right, I found the Knipex at Lowe's. Wonder how long it's been there and I never noticed it. Very comforting to see it there, made me happy.

10 inch cobra $30
Electrician's 4-in-1 pliers $30

Except what they had physically hanging over the 4-in-1 label, were the red/yellow Insulated Needle Nose. Those usually go for $37-50. So perhaps there was a bargain to be had...?

Otherwise those seem to be equivalent to Amazon prices.

 

[Strouty]

Easy to say for those who have the mean to do so. For others, that $100 feed a family of 4 for a month.

That is only because bread winner of said family puts tool purchases ahead of food.

 

[Catamount]

The only thing worse than a cashier telling you how to spend your money is...

......a stranger on a message board telling you how to spend your money.






Guys.

He earned the money.

Let him spend it.

He's not 9 and you're not his parents.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

The only thing worse than a cashier telling you how to spend your money is...

......a stranger on a message board telling you how to spend your money.






Guys.

He earned the money.

Let him spend it.

He's not 9 and you're not his parents.

Agreed.


And $100 won't even cover my monthly train ticket.

 

[mrholeshot]

The only thing worse than a cashier telling you how to spend your money is...

......a stranger on a message board telling you how to spend your money.






Guys.

He earned the money.

Let him spend it.

He's not 9 and you're not his parents.

We didn't open that door, the OP did.

 

[2chipped]

Well I'm a libertarian ,and have been called a *******,redneck,antisocial,and weird. I'm single, love to dip copenhagen,listen to opera,like to cook(sometimes),live 3 miles from the nearest neighbor, but most of all ,love the science of life which is the how and why things work the way they do. In life you can act or react ,I try the former but sometimes stoop to the latter. A guy I worked for told me if you do what you have to do, it will turn out like ****,try harder and the result will be decent,but if you do your best you will be rewarded sooner or later. So here is my take on life I buy only 1st world made manufactured goods when available(I know using a Chinese computer right now btw can you find me a made in the Usa?) because for every purchase i make make the tiniest ripple in life will cause a reaction for many others in a microscopic way. Which is to explain that I don't shop at any chain store wallmart, burgerking etc, unless I have to. Now let me clarify ,I know i'm a single guy but I would rather wait till funds are available to buy quality that i can control the longevity as long as i am the caretaker of the legacy that began in the pocket of a financier, to the drawing board of an engineer, to the assembly line worker, to the retailer, in mine. Its your money to spend as you see fit you are in control of the wake you leave behind(children being the ultimate) Obviously I am not an english major,ha ha

 

[2chipped]

Sorry about the above post running together. @!##$ would not allow spaces.

 

[e3pres]

Jeebus, guys. I was just commenting about a couple of mouth-breathers at the local Lowe's. There's no reason to get all worked up. Here I'll sum it up:

Not everyone needs the best of everything in all situations.

The amount of time that I spend working with my tools warranted, in this case, buying what I perceive to be the best.

Two idiots, for whom rudeness is the least of their problems, obviously don't understand that spending a little more means you get buy something that lasts forever... or at least a really long time.

I thought you guys would understand as we all seem to share a common opinion of tools, craftsmanship, etc. here.

I was just bitching... I thought that is what the internet is here for... that and, you know, the other thing.

 

[zer0cell]

Ah yes... that "other" thing... you don't think that drool coming from my avatar's mouth is reserved strictly for awesome tools do you?

 

[IndyGarage]

I know a guy who wouldn't know a Knipex from any other plier, but he does know about veal and snap peas and wine and all kinds of foods that I've ever eaten, and he wouldn't be caught dead eating the pizza I had last night. He's had the conversation with me about spending more of my money on higher quality food, and he's right. He'll probably live a lot longer than me, too.

I'm pretty sure the guy who lives in that gazillion dollar ocean front home in Maui thinks it's a higher quality place to live than my shack in Indy, but I can't afford his house, so he could try to explain the difference to me and it wouldn't do him any good.

Everybody has their priorities, and the great thing about our world is you have the ability to make choices. My three kids value completely different things than I do. Which has forced me to open my eyes about things.

My bet is the cashier was relatively new and simply surprised at how much the pliers cost. The customer in line may or may not have known the difference in quality of the pliers - he was probably just trying to be helpful.

 

[zer0cell]

That seems like a logical point of view. However, I still feel strongly that no one should feel like they are being interrogated or put down when going shopping. I'd feel the same way if the situation was reversed and a tool snob was mocking a guy for buying an $0.88 screwdriver because that's all he could afford. Again, it's no ones business but your own... and the checkout line can be a particularly uncomfortable place for many. Just a few days ago I had to buy some preparation H from the supermarket and was hoping no one would make any comments about it. I have a colonoscopy scheduled in a couple days because of some health issues too and I don't want to be harassed based on my purchases or for any reason for that matter. It is particularly unprofessional, not to mention rude.

 

[crewchief888]

over the last 35 years or so that ive been buying/using tools ive run across "pro" mechanics that wouldnt know a quality tool if ya poked em in the eye with it.

ive been around guys that wanted to constantly borrow tools, and guys that spent a large portion of their paycheck on the tool trucks every week (myself included).

i work with an older mechanic right now, that has been pulling wrenches for many years. most of his tools came from HF, (and places like HF). he wonders why he has to constantly replace broken tools, or cant access something.
last friday i saw him break 3 5/16" comb wrenches trying to remove some bolts in a tight spot. this job requires a 1" long 5/16" allen bit (socket head bolt), comb wrench slipped over the bit, and a short piece of pipe on the wrench to break the bolts loose.
i loaned him an old matco wrench (that is bent into a L shape, from doing the same job) the bolts broke loose without breaking the wrench
he was dumbfounded and amazed cuz his 2 pittsburg and 1 CM wrenches broke, and mine didnt.

guaranteed he'll show up tomorrow with a another CM and a couple more taiwan made wrenches