Pex plumbing connections

[PWC Repair]

To those of you "in the know"........what type of fittings are preferred? I'm about to start plumbing my son's cabin and would like advice from you experienced folks.

Expanded
Compression
Copper rings
Oetiker clamps

Which one????

 

[Firebrick43]

Expansion is my preference. With the Milwaukee expander its fast, easy, impossible to forget to crimp a clamp/ring, and the ID of the fitting is close to the ID of the tube instead of smaller.

Its also easier to expand in tight places compared to getting a crimping tool in.

 

[Gozo]

I like the stainless steel compression rings. You don’t have to fight to get them slipped on and you can pretty much get the clinching tool in there in the most inconvenient angles. Probably did 100 of them in 1/2 and 3/4” sizes about 10 years ago on a remodel project and have had zero leaks (knock on wood).

@Firebrick43 just posted pretty much the same on the expansion method. I guess it’s diner’s choice.

 

[pbon]

I have done oettinger style clamps but now do expansion. My first couple of tries with expansion resulted in leaks. Might not have been rotating the tool enough or was using Amazon pex and fittings. Now I buy bane brand pex and fittings and use a Milwaukee expander.

 

[DGersic]

To those of you "in the know"........what type of fittings are preferred? I'm about to start plumbing my son's cabin and would like advice from you experienced folks.

Expanded
Compression
Copper rings
Oetiker clamps

Which one????

Expansion. Get the M12 expander.

Thread 'Plumbing Project - Re-Pipe the House'
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/plumbing-project-re-pipe-the-house.509833/

 

[finn]

I’m not a plumber, but I’ve done a couple of houses, including staple up hydronic heat, a minor shop renovation, and an outdoor sauna with the copper compression rings, with no issues.

The tools are inexpensive, so you’re not stuck with a battery tool you’ll not use again for the next twenty years.

 

[mike93lx]

The little bit of pex I have done has been with copper compression rings. If I had a large project, and was committed to pex, I'd buy the expansion tool

That said, I like copper and propress more, but it's a significantly more expensive approach.

 

[CV428]

Oetikers are fine. The tool is about $60.

I know this will tick off a lot of people, but I refuse to use sharkbites/PTC fittings. Refuse. For pneumatics, sure, that type of PTC seal works fine in most applications except for metered air or precision applications. But for liquids, never. There's a reason why I don't use them for leak test systems- they leak.

 

[mike93lx]

Oetikers are fine. The tool is about $60.

I know this will tick off a lot of people, but I refuse to use sharkbites/PTC fittings. Refuse. For pneumatics, sure, that type of PTC seal works fine in most applications except for metered air or precision applications. But for liquids, never. There's a reason why I don't use them for leak test systems- they leak.

I don't know why that would tick anyone off. They're just one type of connection of many.

I have used some Sharkbite in the past when I was just getting started with DIY work, but no longer use them. I have never encountered a leaking one, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Solder and crimp connections can leak as well

With that said, there is an important distinction between PTC and fittings like expansion and propress.

 

[Codyboy]

The only fittings I have used are brass with copper crimp rings.
Some say plastic fittings are better but I can't bring myself to use those.
I did my shop in 1/2" and 3/4" still plenty of flow even though the crimp type fittings for pex b create a choke point.
In my house built 20 years ago the plumber used pex b , no issue with flow and volume.
Also I already had the Apollo crimp tool and dies which was relatively inexpensive at less than 100 bucks. Does 3/8 to 1 inch.

 

[CV428]

I don't know why that would tick anyone off. They're just one type of connection of many.

I have used some Sharkbite in the past when I was just getting started with DIY work, but no longer use them. I have never encountered a leaking one, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Solder and crimp connections can leak as well

With that said, there is an important distinction between PTC and fittings like expansion and propress.

I've had some people (in person) get very emotional in their defense of sharkbites- one flat out told me off, then he had a leak that took out his entire bathroom wall and floor. To be fair, it's not a 100% failure rate since they sell them in stores and people use them daily, but that 1% or 0.1% that fails could flood a house. Do they work in ideal circumstances? Sure. But there are so many extra failure modes to consider - ID/OD tolerance stack, seal degradation, ovality, seal surface condition, spring rate temp fluctuations, etc. All things I encountered dealing with PTC fittings over the years.

And you are 100% right, solder and crimp connections can leak as well- usually by improper technique and not necessarily by component design failure modes.

Propress is very reliable- I used to use that for coolant manifolds for weld systems - I'd have gone that route on my home projects if I had the $1400 tool

 

[mike93lx]

I've had some people (in person) get very emotional in their defense of sharkbites- one flat out told me off, then he had a leak that took out his entire bathroom wall and floor. To be fair, it's not a 100% failure rate since they sell them in stores and people use them daily, but that 1% or 0.1% that fails could flood a house. Do they work in ideal circumstances? Sure. But there are so many extra failure modes to consider - ID/OD tolerance stack, seal degradation, ovality, seal surface condition, spring rate temp fluctuations, etc. All things I encountered dealing with PTC fittings over the years.

And you are 100% right, solder and crimp connections can leak as well- usually by improper technique and not necessarily by component design failure modes.

Propress is very reliable- I used to use that for coolant manifolds for weld systems - I'd have gone that route on my home projects if I had the $1400 tool

It's wild what hills some people choose to defend.

I took a chance on the vevor press tool at $600. Only one project done that had something like 16 crimp, but it worked great.

 

[Renegade1LI]

I like expansion as they offer full flow but it costs a little more than pex b/c. Like any system pressure testing is key to a good job regardless of what system you use. Propress is a great system, we've done over 100k press connections & the only issues were due to installer error. With the price of copper a hydrid of pex a & pp makes for a good cost effective job, using copper where the work is exposed. If going all pex buy a few straight sections for use where it is visible, mount on plywood backing if possible. Don't scrimp on clamps, keeping it neat makes pex look much better.

 

[dcg9381]

Expansion is my preference. With the Milwaukee expander its fast, easy, impossible to forget to crimp a clamp/ring, and the ID of the fitting is close to the ID of the tube instead of smaller.

Expansion is probably the best option, but it's major downside is that you're probably not keeping the tools there if you need to fix something. Last I checked a decent set was $500+. (Haven't used the China hand-expanders, maybe that's the newest solution). Actual volume and flow of these fittings is better.

Find valves and fittings of expansion type is a often a little more difficult at your local hardware store.

I like the stainless steel compression rings. You don’t have to fight to get them slipped on and you can pretty much get the clinching tool in there in the most inconvenient angles.

I mainly use these. Why? Because they are way easier to remove. I've never had one fail and I've installed over 100 of them. If I was in a "remote" cabin, I'd definitely go this route. Building home? Expansion / Uponor.

 

[readhead]

Pex A or Pex B systems both have their pros and cons. My first consideration would be availability in your area. Pex B seems to be more common. Nothing worse than being short one fitting and you can’t go to the store and pick one up.

 

[mike93lx]

I really try not to decide on how to do permanent work just based on ease of install or ease of sourcing parts. The work will be around far longer than any memory of how the install went.

Not saying either of those don't matter at all, though

 

[DGersic]

Expansion is probably the best option, but it's major downside is that you're probably not keeping the tools there if you need to fix something. Last I checked a decent set was $500+. (Haven't used the China hand-expanders, maybe that's the newest solution). Actual volume and flow of these fittings is better.

Find valves and fittings of expansion type is a often a little more difficult at your local hardware store.

M12 expander (tool with batteries and charger) goes for about $300. You can re-sell it when done if $300 is a budget breaker for you.

Menards is local to me and carries F.1960 expansion tubing, fittings, adapters, and rings. Most of my house re-pipe project was bought at Menards. For stuff I wanted that Menards didn’t have, SupplyHouse.com can have it here in a couple of days.

 

[DGersic]

Pex A or Pex B systems both have their pros and cons. My first consideration would be availability in your area. Pex B seems to be more common. Nothing worse than being short one fitting and you can’t go to the store and pick one up.

Pedant alert.

PEX A and B tell you how the tubing is made.

F.1960 is the spec for expansion fittings.

F.1807 is the spec for crimp fittings.

Usually, PEX A tubing is F.1960. PEX B may be F.1807 or F.1960. To know for sure what you’re getting, check the specs printed on the tubing you’re using, and the fittings and fasteners.

 

[DGersic]

I really try not to decide on how to do permanent work just based on ease of install or ease of sourcing parts. The work will be around far longer than any memory of how the install went.

Not saying either of those don't matter at all, though

Time to complete the job matters when your house has no water. We lived in a hotel room while I was replacing the plumbing a couple of years ago. Ease of sourcing parts and supplies affects getting the job done, and the compromises necessary. Less important in the long run, I don’t intend to replace any fittings or parts in the system now that it’s built.

Longevity matters, too. Copper can fail over time. PVC can too. Other “good ideas“ in plumbing have already failed and had to be replaced. So it’s a bit of a **** shoot when deciding what you think will last the next 50 years before someone has to replace it again.

I don’t like soldering in and around the 75 year old wood in my house. I can do copper, but I’m not comfortable enough to do that. Someone with more experience soldering may be willing to do that.

I’ve done PVC, but didn’t see an advantage to PVC plastic pipe over PEX plastic pipe. In fact, with more fittings and joints needed, PVC seems more likely to fail than PEX. Will the fitting or joint fail before the tubing? If I live another 50 years, I guess I’ll find out.

 

[mobiledynamics]

I'm still a copper preference for most water applications.....but do have the M12 expander and have used it when doing some crazy European style baseboards that were hung super flush to the wall. It was pretty -neat- using Pex for this instead of ridgid pipe....as I just was able to just have a smidge of Pex stub out, make the connections and then just *hang* it off the cleats off the wall. No wrenches would have worked given the clearances

 

[dcg9381]

I’ve done PVC, but didn’t see an advantage to PVC plastic pipe over PEX plastic pipe. In fact, with more fittings and joints needed, PVC seems more likely to fail than PEX. Will the fitting or joint fail before the tubing? If I live another 50 years, I guess I’ll find out.

I've done a lot of PVC plumbing dealing with our 5 x 5000 gallon water tanks, pump house, associated filtration, etc.
PVC (for me) fails a lot more often. It's usually due to "use" problems - vibration, water pump got hot, etc. As I go in and slowly have to "fix" the PVC, I'm using PEX. I've never had a PEX failure. My major complaint with PEX is that in larger sizes (1-1/4) it gets difficult to manage.. I have to setup a "jig" to straighten it overnight so I can use it, basically clamp it between a set of 6' 2x4's.... And beyond 1" there is almost no support for the size at Home Depot.

 

[mike93lx]

Time to complete the job matters when your house has no water. We lived in a hotel room while I was replacing the plumbing a couple of years ago. Ease of sourcing parts and supplies affects getting the job done, and the compromises necessary. Less important in the long run, I don’t intend to replace any fittings or parts in the system now that it’s built.

Longevity matters, too. Copper can fail over time. PVC can too. Other “good ideas“ in plumbing have already failed and had to be replaced. So it’s a bit of a **** shoot when deciding what you think will last the next 50 years before someone has to replace it again.

I don’t like soldering in and around the 75 year old wood in my house. I can do copper, but I’m not comfortable enough to do that. Someone with more experience soldering may be willing to do that.

I’ve done PVC, but didn’t see an advantage to PVC plastic pipe over PEX plastic pipe. In fact, with more fittings and joints needed, PVC seems more likely to fail than PEX. Will the fitting or joint fail before the tubing? If I live another 50 years, I guess I’ll find out.

I certainly understand that.

There is no perfect solution and we can have different priorities that even vary by project.

I frequently hear Pex argued for because of how easy it is to install and no other reason. I'm just saying that isnt how I try to look at it.

 

[duneslider]

I have used all the methods, including the "horrible" sharkbite type fittings and had no problem with any of them. I don't use the sharkbite style very often but due to a tight space in a repair I did one in my own house about 15 years ago and its been no issue.

Most people will never notice a difference between the flow of Pex A and Pex B, it just isn't that big of a deal.

Pex-B- in some areas the water can lead to early failure with brass fittings and plastic should be used. I believe it is more acidic water maybe that pulls the zinc out of the brass? Anyway, I have no idea how prevelant that issue is, or if it is even something to really be concerned about.

I definitely would do pex over any other method though, copper just isn't worth it but if I was doing copper I would want to do propress. We still use some copper on very large air lines at work and that is all propressed.

 

[75gmck25]

When I did my plumbing and hydronic heat lines several years ago I decided that PEX B and copper crimp fittings gave me the best bang for the buck. PEX A and an expansion tool may have been better, but at that time I think the tool alone was about $400. YMMV

The only issue I've found with PEX B and copper crimp rings is that the crimp tool requires space for the handles. When making a joint up within the joists or some other narrow space, you have figure out if you can expand the handles enough (usually 90 degrees) and then get it crimped. They do make a compact crimping tool, but it looks like it might be a PIA to use.

One other consideration for a cabin is to look at how to provide rodent protection for the PEX. Rodents seem to love chewing on plastic, and PEX down at ground level can be vulnerable.
War Story - I had one squirrel (or other rodent) who loved plastic so much that he chewed a dime-sized hole in a plastic gas can that had gas in it. Wouldn't you think he would quit as soon as there was gas vapor coming out?

 

[BobnCO]

Put me down as one more for expansion with the Milwaukee M12 tool; I had the stainless pinch clamps and wayyyy prefer my expansion system. I bought my M12 tool on marketplace from a guy who did one job. Im keeping g it.. it is so much faster and easier than the old clamp system and is easier to get into tight spaces (with crimper you have to get the tool in the space; with expansion you can tip out the pex yo better get tool on.

 

[Sturgeon]

99.9 Of my fittings were slipped into expanded pipe. Used the stainless steel compression rings on some and sharkbites on others. Leaks aways boiled down to workmanship, not failed materials.

 

[reader2580]

I bought an M12 expansion tool. I have a bunch of plumbing projects to do over several years. I really like expansion and the fittings are sold at Menards.

I don't use Sharkbites in my home plumbing except temporary things like a cap while in the middle of a project. My coach bus converted to motorhome has all Sharkbites dating back as far as 2006. No failures yet, and the motorhome has been driven around 100,000 miles.

 

[Firebrick43]

Pex-B- in some areas the water can lead to early failure with brass fittings and plastic should be used. I believe it is more acidic water maybe that pulls the zinc out of the brass? Anyway, I have no idea how prevelant that issue is, or if it is even something to really be concerned about.

Quality brass fittings are not an issue.

The fittings that have issues were made of **** brass with too much zinc in it so the companies making theses substandard fitting could generate more profit.

One company was mostly to blame, Zurn.

Other companies, even viega propress fittings and nibco valves got caught up in it but they had a very small fraction of the issues that zurn did. I think every company selling brass fittings in America was sued in the end just to see if something would stick?

Most of the other decent brass fitting manufactures such as wirsburo/upnor, viega, watts, nibco and Souix chief use DZR brass now with less than 9 percent zinc content.

 

[Plump]

I'm not greatly experienced with all the various methods, and I'm sure expansion is the way to go, but cost is a factor for smaller jobs like the ones I do and those tools are way too expensive.

The compression rings aren't my first choice since you definitely need to make sure each one is go/no-go and the compression tool is VERY hard to get into cramped areas. I've moved to the Oetiker clamps. Easier to make sure they're set and can get into the small areas that always seem to be where you're working.

 

[pbon]

Propress copper looks the best. It is tempting but I am just a DIYer and not a plumber and don’t feel like the cost is justified for me yet. If I had to do a really big project, I would think about it. I live in the Northeast and like pex because it is less likely to burst if water freezes. Most of the plumbing I have done has been copper solder. I use 12” squares of fiberglass welding blanket when torching really close to wood. Bought a cheap one and cut it up.

 

[Lumpy102]

I used upinor expansion tool (hand)(borrowed) when I renovated my house, and for the floor heat in both shops I had a hand in, simple and never a leak. Buddy did "his" bathroom in Home Depot pex and crimp rings, dunno what brand, but some joints leaked, just cut off rings and re-crimped. Been on the lookout for a used expansion tool, they sell quick on FB marketplace.

 

[Renegade1LI]

Not to mention 100' 3/4 pex A is 70$ and 100 3/4 L copper is 570$, less fittings. Makes using any pex cost effective.

 

[lovetap]

I have mostly Milwaukee power tools but found a good deal on a Dewalt expansion tool, plumbed my house with it. Expansion supposedly keeps a slightly larger diameter than other fittings, makes sense. Meant to sell the tool after building but I still need it here and there.

 

[PWC Repair]

SOooo...........seems like we're all over the place on this LOL!!! I will see what's in stock at the local box stores. I've watched some videos and the Oetiker clamp tool appears to get into the tightest spots, PLUS, I've used (and removed) those many times on Seadoos.

 

[Renegade1LI]

SOooo...........seems like we're all over the place on this LOL!!! I will see what's in stock at the local box stores. I've watched some videos and the Oetiker clamp tool appears to get into the tightest spots, PLUS, I've used (and removed) those many times on Seadoos.

You have to consider all the systems mentioned work well, all pex, sweat, propress, solder if installed properly will last, really comes down to what you want to spend. I personally will pay for the best quality, tools , material, but in this case there is no bad system & being a cabin pex a may fair better in a freeze up.

 

[johninct]

When doing an installation in an existing house, I went with the stainless steel band Viega because I could dry fit everything first.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

I broke down and purchased the Milwaukee expander, would not change my mind after using it several times.
I have both a Lowe's and Menards close that sells most of the fittings. Like others have said Supplyhouse.com is my goto when I plan a job, but for a repair or quick fitting they normally have the most common ones.

I thought I would use it then sell it, but kept it and have used it atleast a dozen times since.

 

[ddurrett896]

Re-plumbing my entire crawl space.

Went with the Ridgid 115 press tool with the Pro Press (copper) and Pure Flow (pex) jaws.

 

[mike93lx]

Re-plumbing my entire crawl space.

Went with the Ridgid 115 press tool with the Pro Press (copper) and Pure Flow (pex) jaws.

Why the mix of copper and press?

 

[CoogarXR]

I have been using nothing but brass fittings and copper crimp rings for 25 years, and I've yet to have a problem with any of my work leaking.

Not that there aren't any better systems out there- but that's just the tools I bought, and I saw no need to change.