Pliers; How Many Is Too Many?

[Private Lugnutz]

I posted the catalog page above.

Huh? Where?

 

[four.cycle]

post #232 of this thread - previous page
the page I posted is from the 1926 catalog, which was what I had here at that moment.

I don't think there's any question that they are Crescent / Smith & Hemenway - I'm not as well-versed on those companies' histories as you and LesserSon though... what am I missing?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I was just confused because I was looking for the page from the 1961 catalog. It's not an S&H/Crescent 1926 tool or a Crescent 1939 tool.

 

[four.cycle]

oh! I assumed it was much older!

 

[RTM]

oh! I assumed it was much older!

That was my problem too.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

oh! I assumed it was much older!

I know. That's why I was being very deliberate about insisting that it was explicitly to be found in the 1961 catalog. With no screwdriver tip or nail puller handle ends.

 

[four.cycle]

ahh... okay!

I guess maybe I need to visit ITCL and d/l some more Crescent catalogs... I only have a couple here.

 

[d42jeep]

Here are a pair of Thorsen pliers. Not in great shape but I’ve only seen the one pair.
-Don

 

[Outlawmws]

Picked up 3 pair of Utica's. Same place, all with different Utica markings

Closeups of markings:

Sorry for this one - having difficulties with the light and lost the sun for the day:

 

[d42jeep]

Here are a pair of Thorsen pliers. Not in great shape but I’ve only seen the one pair.
-Don

Okay, maybe two pairs
-Don

 

[Outlawmws]

Two more than I have Don!

 

[Mintgrun]

I'm a sucker for nicely made slip-joint pliers. According to Google, IGARASHI means "50 storms" in Japanese. Some of the IGARASHI pliers are marked IPS instead of YK, but I haven't looked into the difference. They currently offer some very nice soft-jaw pliers. I'd love to add some of those to my collection. (assuming I can find them used/dirt-cheap).



The nut on the pivot is different than any I've seen. I think the two depressions make it a lock-nut and it has two flats to grip/adjust it. They're fine as-are though.



I like it when stamps on tools make the metal look soft. There's no way the inset JAPAN is rubbing off!

It seems like tools made in Japan are underappreciated, but maybe it's just that they're often too new to qualify as vintage. These may be too, but I'm bending the rules.

Tom

 

[AreBeeBee]

It seems like tools made in Japan are underappreciated, but maybe it's just that they're often too new to qualify as vintage. These may be too, but I'm bending the rules.

Tom

You raise a point I've wondered about off and on for some years now. Setting aside pure collecting for completeness, at what point did tools imported from Japan to North America start being considered seriously as tools for use?

 

[four.cycle]

^ depends upon the brand.
Truecraft and Cen-Tech were actually bringing some respectable stuff over in the early 1970s, most of which was ignored by American consumers simply because of our tendency toward tribalism.

The change to Japan becoming a leader happened about 20-25 years ago when they started doing some real innovative work on pliers and screwdrivers. I think a good part of that was driven by what was happening in Taiwan at the same time - I think a lot of them realized that "cheap and junky" wasn't going to cut it for the long haul.

Just my lousy two cents, of course.

 

[Mintgrun]

I realize that some of the earliest Japanese offerings seem a little chintzy but later stuff is very nice. Probably not worth trying to sort it out in this thread, but I'd find a dedicated Tools of Japan thread intriguing. EDIT- thank you for the info 4C.




The pair on the left are nicer to my eye, based on the pivot nut/bolt and grip style. They put the nut/bolt in backward on the other pair. They're both marked HM and the left one's also marked KOWA. I assume both pairs came in a car or motorcycle tool kit, but that's just a guess. They're just over five inches long.

Tom

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It seems like tools made in Japan are underappreciated,

...I'd find a dedicated Tools of Japan thread intriguing.

There is an excellent and long Mega thread, packed with proponents and aficionados, up on the General Board, Tom!

Tools of Japan

Features tools "Made in Japan"

www.garagejournal.com

As with its European counterpart, also located up on the General Board...

Tools from the old world

This thread is for all tools "from the old world" like tools from Europe, but you can also post all tools from outside the USA here. (If you want :) ) :bounce::beer: some pictures of my tool collection :thumbup: Wiha and Bahco (Belzer ) reversible screwdrivers Wiha PZ and PH offset...

www.garagejournal.com

...it tends to be 90% modern or current and 10% vintage, but I have used them both, occasionally, to ask questions and make some points.

 

[Mintgrun]

Thanks for the info, Lugz. I don't leave this forum though. Perhaps I'm a big agoraphobic? Maybe this'll encourage me to venture out... someday.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I don't leave this forum though. Perhaps I'm a big agoraphobic? Maybe this'll encourage me to venture out... someday.

HAHA! I hear you. I only go on highly selective and carefully planned forays!

The only threads in my Watched list that are not located down here in the sane, gentlemanly confines of the Vintage Tools Discussion forum are the annual 'Garage Sale' thread, where I always post my flea market finds first, as a lot, no close-ups, no details, and the 'Hammertime!', 'VISES' and 'Show your oiler cans' threads, because those both preceded the great schism and there really are no equivalent mega hammers, vises, or oilers threads down here. The 'Hammertime!' thread is probably at least 50/50 Modern/Vintage despite it being up there in the madness and mayhem that is General Tools Discussion. In my opinion, there is no reason for the 'VISES' or the 'Oilers' threads to be up there. Easily 90% of the content on those threads is vintage. But they're kind of stuck in place in the wrong place now and I am so used to accessing them via my Watched lists that it doesn't even feel like I am leaving Vintage.

Tangentially, I am glad you said this, though, because it intersects with a subject @four.cycle and I have discussed in the open and on PM concerning the different ways that GJ'ers habitually access and read the forum and the contents of the A-Z Index in the Sticky.

 

[four.cycle]

@Mintgrun - another hidden gem was "LOBTEX" - makers of the "Lobster" and "New Lobster" brand tools. I have one of their adjustables - probably made in the 70s - far better than what "Crescent" is cranking out in the current era by a long shot. (And that's a U.S. made "Crescent", btw - you can confirm with Don just how junky it is - he got suckered into buying one too.)

 

[pelletman]

OP, are you new here?

 

[AreBeeBee]

I realize that some of the earliest Japanese offerings seem a little chintzy but later stuff is very nice. Probably not worth trying to sort it out in this thread, but I'd find a dedicated Tools of Japan thread intriguing. EDIT- thank you for the info 4C.




The pair on the left are nicer to my eye, based on the pivot nut/bolt and grip style. They put the nut/bolt in backward on the other pair. They're both marked HM and the left one's also marked KOWA. I assume both pairs came in a car or motorcycle tool kit, but that's just a guess. They're just over five inches long.

Tom

HM = Honda Motors, and I think the "motors" were motorcycles. Happy to be informed more precisely....

 

[Outlawmws]

They currently offer some very nice soft-jaw pliers.

I hve the IPS plastic insert pliers in both slip joint and Water pump styles. they are not super heavy duty compared to top quality toolmakers, but more than good enough for the work the plastic jaws that are used for.

Why did I get them? Working on Lanterns that sometimes have stuck fuel caps and the like where I'm trying to preserve the finish. Ive used them elsewhere as well now I have them.

If you get them, buy the spare jaws with them. buying them by themselves is not cheap...

at what point did tools imported from Japan to North America start being considered seriously as tools for use?

Like broad categorization, , they had **** tools and good ones. Most of the car or motorcycle supplied tools are decent to very good where forged and not stamped steel. But the ones made for the grocery store gondolas of dollar tools (think most of Globemaster) were not, and most seen were like those.

Have they improved? vastly. (think Mitutoyo...) India and Pakistan now fill most of the cheap **** tools; China I won't get into as I'm not a MIC fan for any tools, and where I can avoid them anything else. For a while that became very difficult, but its getting better if you take an ABC approach.

I never had many tools from China to begin with, but I think I've purged them out other than the "creepers" that come in "box buys", and those get tossed into a bag for the occasional yard sale (About a year back I took everything in that bag and gave it to one of my "regular" sellers that worked both his house and the local HS Flea. - He was happy and so was I.)

 

[Mintgrun]

Here's my little array of little ignition pliers.



The JSB 1259 pliers were made in Japan and have JSB JAPAN forged into the inside of the handles. The texture is very pronounced on the grips and they're on the larger side too; so they feel quite capable, for such a small tool.



I found the Challenger 3204 by PROTO pair yesterday. They're quite dainty. At first, I assumed someone had ground the tips down because they're so pointy, but they're still chrome plated, so they came that way.

The other PROTO pair next to them in the group shot had an owner whittle them down, so they're narrower than they once were.

The little green-gripped Diamond pliers are marked HL 14 P PAT. 3739664 (forging technique) granted in 1973, so they could possibly be vintage... That pair has a rivet, as opposed to a nut and bolt.

https://www.datamp.org/patents/displayPatent.php?number=3739664&typeCode=0

The Globemasters were made in Germany (W). They're a bit clunky by comparison.

The Japanese JSB pliers inspired this post.

 

[d42jeep]

I had this thread in mind when I found these in a kitchen junk drawer at today’s estate sale.
-Don

 

[Outlawmws]

Are those aluminum or steel Don?

 

[d42jeep]

I believe that they are steel but I’ll double check with a magnet later today.
-Don

 

[four.cycle]

^ after reading Private Lugnutz's post in the Garage Sale thread , I am wondering if perhaps Kaiser had those stamped out to use in house or (alternatively) possibly as a promotional item.

 

[d42jeep]

I believe that they are steel but I’ll double check with a magnet later today.
-Don

They are definitely steel. I noticed an interesting thing about the pliers when I was taking pictures. They are slip joint pliers but changing to the wider position makes them not work. They just jam up.
-Don

 

[Mike'smeatshop]

They are definitely steel. I noticed an interesting thing about the pliers when I was taking pictures. They are slip joint pliers but changing to the wider position makes them not work. They just jam up.
-Don

They won't work for larger bite when you adjust the slip joint?

 

[d42jeep]

No. The angle changes and the lever runs into the side of the slot. I guess the slip joint wasn’t thought out very thoroughly.
-Don

 

[MisterEd]

Kraeuter 1973-7 Mechanics’ Side Cutting Slip Joint Pliers

 

[MisterEd]

Kraeuter 1830-5 Electricians’ Side Cutting Pliers

 

[LesserSon]

Harrold pliers. I have seen similarly-forged pliers made in Germany, Poland, Japan, etc. For a while I was actively buying Happi-Time (made for Sears kids’ tool kits) or variations of the Harrold logo, but now mostly only buy models I haven’t got (like the new-to-me dikes) IF the price is ridiculously low. Functionally, they are not bad tools, but there is an unrefined quality to their design.

 

[oldpliers1]

A bit different

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I was going to flip a coin on where to post these - heads for Herbrand, tails for Utica, but then I remembered this thread!

Extra heavy-duty 10" combination slip joints with a wire cutter and those extra pipette jaws out near the tip.

 

[Outlawmws]

No question who Mfg'd them that's for sure!

 

[d42jeep]

I found a pair of Vaco pliers and a pair of Harrold pliers at an estate sale today.
Harrold pliers
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

No question who Mfg'd them that's for sure!

Lol. Nope. The same logo-inspired grip can be seen on Mephisto pliers.

 

[d42jeep]

I found these paint covered lineman’s pliers at a Sunday garage sale. It wasn’t possible to tell who made them until I spent a couple of hours cleaning off the stubborn paint. They turned out to be marked Sears 3079 with a BF code. Made in Japan. Had I known, I might have left them behind but they seem to be decent, quality wise.



-Don

 

[LesserSon]

They sure cleaned up good!