Pliers; How Many Is Too Many?

[four.cycle]

Lectrolite 216 - 6 inch slip-joint pliers

 

[four.cycle]

Utica 50-8 - 8-inch "Electricians Standard Side-Cutting Pliers

 

[four.cycle]

RE: Speed Tools, London, England:

Finally, also from Grace's Guide, just because it's **** as all get out in shape, function, and name, they made a self-locking plier they called a Speetog.

Since the photo in the advertisement @Private Lugnutz has cited above simply does not do the device justice, here is the "Speetog" in all its glory for your review and admiration:

Speetog wrench (patent GB 576142 and GB 731736)(photos: ebay)

If you see one of these at a garage sale or swap meet, do not walk past it - they command pretty respectful prices in the second-hand market. Amazing little device for clamping work - has a bit of that "Schollhorn parallel jaw" thing going on:

 

[LesserSon]

I already posted some shots of some of these, but I think I can cover my entire Kraeuter pliers possessions in two posts.
Plain Jane:



Not-so-plain:

 

[LesserSon]

Kraeuter similar to S&H Red Devil:


Fancy (actually beautiful) Kraeuter:

 

[Debcrow]

Please post a photo of the marking. Maybe it's just me, but your photos are very bright, and with the white background, almost snowblindingly bright.

Yes, I understand. Shooting outside in the southwest sunshine against a white background tends to wash the photos out a bit.

However, the stamping on the Smith pliers is very light. Using chalk and a high magnification some of it is not readable.
Here is what I can see, and some of it just barely. I used a underscore ( _) where I can see nothing.

TH_ H D SMITH CO
PLANTSVILLE CONN.
PAT. JUNE 9 ___4
PAT. _E_ 20 ___7
MA_E IN U__

I assume the second PAT is FEB because the letter after the E has a possible loop at the top like a B.

No other markings on it I can see. It is 7 inches long. The offset rise from the bottom flat edge to the top flat edge is 1 inch.

 

[LesserSon]

Those are both WS Thomson patents.
D045919 9Jun1914
and
1216886 20Feb1917
So those are HD Smith No646 “GITTATIT” offset slip joint gas pliers.

I assume pronunciation is GITT-at-it or gitt-AT-it. Moving the last syllable break invites a purple nurple.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Here is what I can see,

Thanks. @LesserSon nailed it. Branded "GITTATIT" (in the same mode as but preceding 'Git 'er done!' by 100 years! ) There are a few on the H.D. Smith thread and now a fourth here for me to be so happy for you guys about.



Here's one of the crisper markings...

 

[LesserSon]

Here’s @Debcrow ‘s image with a little processing help:

 

[LesserSon]

Williams-branded (I believe Utica-mfd) No77 longnose.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

(@LesserSon - I didn't mean to re-post the same info as you on the GITATIT's. You must have added that after I rolled off your post and I missed it.)

 

[LesserSon]

I was looking at Alloy Artifacts’ PS&W linemans pliers, which they credit to Utica, based on the nearly identical grip pattern. This has bothered me off and on, partly because I have bought rusted box joint PS&Ws thinking they were Utica, and partly because I thought I’d since learned to distinguish them.
PS&W handles are generally heavier, and the depressed diamonds grip pattern (when present), always has a V-terminating top and never has a speedbump at the bottom. Uticas usually betray the remains of a lower speedbump, even when it is mostly polished away.
(top pair above is Utica)
Further, the head is more like Utica’s lighter No50 than their heavier No1950, but always has a flat-walled (hexish) well for the cutters, whereas Utica 50s always have a round well and Utica 1950s always have the hexish well.

(PS&W at top, above, Utica at bottom)

(all PS&W)
The PS&W cutters are almost always on a convex surface proud of the rest of the head (I have one that is flat flush), while Utica cutters are almost always flat flush (I have one that is convex proud).

(all PS&W)
Most PS&W pivot pins (both lap-joint and box-joint) have five flats locking them - I have not seen this detail on Utica.

(PS&W above)
Lastly, Uticas of the era with V-terminating grip pattern always have a forged-in 3-diamonds logo inside the handles (or shadows if highly polished), but PS&W examples don’t, even when other forging marks remain after finishing.

(Utica at top, above; two PS&W at bottom)
I’m not arguing that AA is necessarily wrong (surely, there’s SOME reason the two grip patterns are so similar), but to me, the preponderance of evidence of every other part of the pliers suggests their conclusion should be phrased in more tentative terms.

 

[LesserSon]

(@LesserSon - I didn't mean to re-post the same info as you on the GITATIT's. You must have added that after I rolled off your post and I missed it.)

I am very bad at getting my posts right the first time, and also very bad at resisting the urge to edit.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I am very bad at getting my posts right the first time, and also very bad at resisting the urge to edit.

Oh, me too, and happens to all of us. I just didn't want you to think I was a jerk, posting information you just posted, as if you hadn't. (One of my pet peeves is seeing someone do that, and thinking, 'What was the point of posting something I just posted?!' )

 

[Outlawmws]

Oh, me too, and happens to all of us. I just didn't want you to think I was a jerk, posting information you just posted, as if you hadn't. (One of my pet peeves is seeing someone do that, and thinking, 'What was the point of posting something I just posted?!' )

Sometimes its just being slow to gather the info and post and you got to it faster Lugz. not always of course... but I've done it/experienced yo and usually its within minutes...

 

[Private Lugnutz]

^ For sure. But sometimes it's an hour or so later - and sometimes even longer, and the person replied before reading the rest of the thread. Not a big deal. Just a bugaboo about something I try not to do.

 

[Skyman]

I hadn't heard of a Speetog until a few days ago, when I stumbled across an example on Ebay. Last I checked, it had been bid up to $61 US. I'd enjoy having one, but not at that cost.

 

[d42jeep]

I took quite a few pictures of pliers today. The pair that amused me the most was these Dunlap Vlchek made gullwing pair. I’ve been making sure to include handle patterns in my pictures. This pair may have slipped by Vlchek’s quality control. The two halves are riveted together so I can’t blame a previous owner.
Nice handle pattern
on one handle.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

All of these Utica pliers have smooth handles.
except for this homemade pattern on one handle.
These four pairs have handle patterns.
The parallel jaw pliers have a subtle pattern.
The 511-8 pliers have a cool pattern.
The pattern on the 7-8 handles is quite different

continued below
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

Other handle on the #7-8 pliers.
The #527 pliers have yet another pattern

-Don

 

[d42jeep]

Since Wilde has made contract tools for other brands, I thought it would be worthwhile to show the handle patterns on the ones I have.

-Don

 

[Eric Brown]

Other handle on the #7-8 pliers.
The #527 pliers have yet another pattern

-Don

I'm always amazed at the number of different handle patters. Thanks.

 

[four.cycle]

I'm always amazed at the number of different handle patters. Thanks.

It would be great to have a comprehensive graphic of various handle patterns.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It would be great to have a comprehensive graphic of various handle patterns.

Good prompt, 4.c! We've talked about some kind of reference off and on in various threads, including right here on the Mega- thread before, most recently LS here...

if I can figure how to get the USPTO site to generate a list of D8/58 links, we’d have a real reference for looking up grip patterns.
EDIT - I figured it out, but the classes and subclasses evolved over time, so there isn’t a one-stop look-up for ornamental plier handle grip patterns.

...and we have of course deep dove into various grip patterns in detail on Brand-Specific threads (e.g., Kraeuter, Utica, etc) as well as dipping into them here a little on the Mega- thread.

Here's a rough start, for discussion.



If everyone reviews and comments - especially the brand-specific aficionados (e.g., LS for Utica, etc), I'd be glad to consider modifying, finalizing and then maintaining it.

Also, no pride of designship, and if someone has an idea they think is more effective, have at it.

Some notes:

/ As with all my InfoGraphics, I like a timeline backdrop.

- TBH, I'm not sure chronology is critical, and if it was organized differently - just blocks of OEMs across the slide in rows, irrespective of chronology, or perhaps with little parenthetical date notes, we could probably fit a lot more information (more OEMs, more examples) on one sheet.

- The chronology in some cases is very specific (e.g., JPD's switch to so-called "herringbone") and in other cases kind of loosey-goosey. I started out just trying to show a vague general progression with respect to the decades. It's not terribly erroneous; it could also probably be more accurate and specific with respect to sequencing, esp. wrt Kraeuter and Utica. (The S&H section is definitely wonky - they were part of Crescent after 1926, but I ran out of room under the 1920's column for all their variants.)

- I quickly lose personal interest after 1950 and hand-waved all that. If someone with more interest wants to gather the information (OEM, pattern, timeframe), we could maybe try to fit it in, or we may need to do a "Part II: 1960's and Later" version

/ I only included "names" (in yellow) for OEMs who actually named their patterns in patents, TMs, or in marketing. We could extend this to collectors' names from AA and GJ etc, but I have not done that.

/ I excluded some prominent pliers OEMs because their grip patterns are self-explanatory (e.g., Schollhorn "BERNARD") or nondescript cross-hatched knurling

/ When I saw that I had forgotten Pexto, and maybe Mayhew, McKaig-Hatch, and others, I had already run out of space. We obviously need a Page 2, to also include all the rare obscure patterns, such as Camron's "wide basket weave" pattern.

/ I know there is interest in European, etc OEMs. Maybe someone else could take that on.

EDIT: Tagging this #GripPatternChart for easier finding later.

 

[MisterEd]

Here's a rough start, for discussion.

Won't Harrold feel left out? Just askin'.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Won't Harrold feel left out? Just askin'.

Snerk. They're in this category...

When I saw that I had forgotten Pexto, and maybe Mayhew, McKaig-Hatch, and others, I had already run out of space. We obviously need a Page 2,

 

[Eric Brown]

Good prompt, 4.c! We've talked about some kind of reference off and on in various threads, including right here on the Mega- thread before, most recently LS here...

...and we have of course deep dove into various grip patterns in detail on Brand-Specific threads (e.g., Kraeuter, Utica, etc) as well as dipping into them here a little on the Mega- thread.

Here's a rough start, for discussion.



If everyone reviews and comments - especially the brand-specific aficionados (e.g., LS for Utica, etc), I'd be glad to consider modifying, finalizing and then maintaining it.

Also, no pride of designship, and if someone has an idea they think is more effective, have at it.

Some notes:

/ As with all my InfoGraphics, I like a timeline backdrop.

- TBH, I'm not sure chronology is critical, and if it was organized differently - just blocks of OEMs across the slide in rows, irrespective of chronology, or perhaps with little parenthetical date notes, we could probably fit a lot more information (more OEMs, more examples) on one sheet.

- The chronology in some cases is very specific (e.g., JPD's switch to so-called "herringbone") and in other cases kind of loosey-goosey. I started out just trying to show a vague general progression with respect to the decades. It's not terribly erroneous; it could also probably be more accurate and specific with respect to sequencing, esp. wrt Kraeuter and Utica. (The S&H section is definitely wonky - they were part of Crescent after 1926, but I ran out of room under the 1920's column for all their variants.)

- I quickly lose personal interest after 1950 and hand-waved all that. If someone with more interest wants to gather the information (OEM, pattern, timeframe), we could maybe try to fit it in, or we may need to do a "Part II: 1960's and Later" version

/ I only included "names" (in yellow) for OEMs who actually named their patterns in patents, TMs, or in marketing. We could extend this to collectors' names from AA and GJ etc, but I have not done that.

/ I excluded some prominent pliers OEMs because their grip patterns are self-explanatory (e.g., Schollhorn "BERNARD") or nondescript cross-hatched knurling

/ When I saw that I had forgotten Pexto, and maybe Mayhew, McKaig-Hatch, and others, I had already run out of space. We obviously need a Page 2, to also include all the rare obscure patterns, such as Camron's "wide basket weave" pattern.

/ I know there is interest in European, etc OEMs. Maybe someone else could take that on.

I like it so far. Working with my German pliers I wonder if it becomes too complicated because so many seem alike. For instance, in the picture below, They are (from top to bottom ) Fulton, Fulton, W-----Co, Witherby, 3161, all with basically the same pattern with a flat diamond pattern inside a rectangle with rounded ends. Then the next group, also Germany, Unmarked, Stellar, Oxwall, all with the same pattern as above but inside a rectangle with one end rounded and the other square. From this picture angle it is hard to see, but the fifth one down, the 3161, the diamonds are taller with a sort of puffed look to them.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I like it so far.

Thanks.

Working with my German pliers I wonder if it becomes too complicated because so many seem alike.

^ My inclination would be to classify those as one pattern. (But that's just my $.02. And I have no intention of taking on Europe! ) Also, note that I was confining my approach to OEMs. With the exception of the "Craftsman production" notation on the so-called "Nested Diamonds" grip pattern I tucked in to the Champion DeArment and Kraeuter rows, because in that case, even though Sears, Roebuck & Co isn't the OEM, it was their design.)

 

[d42jeep]

I like it so far. Working with my German pliers I wonder if it becomes too complicated because so many seem alike. For instance, in the picture below, They are (from top to bottom ) Fulton, Fulton, W-----Co, Witherby, 3161, all with basically the same pattern with a flat diamond pattern inside a rectangle with rounded ends. Then the next group, also Germany, Unmarked, Stellar, Oxwall, all with the same pattern as above but inside a rectangle with one end rounded and the other square. From this picture angle it is hard to see, but the fifth one down, the 3161, the diamonds are taller with a sort of puffed look to them.

Looks like my Dunlap lineman’s pliers might be related to those. I assume Sears sourced those from Germany prior to WW2.
-Don

 

[four.cycle]

Here's a rough start, for discussion.

That is exactly the picture I had in my head when I typed that comment.

I quickly lose personal interest after 1950 and hand-waved all that. If someone with more interest wants to gather the information (OEM, pattern, timeframe), we could maybe try to fit it in, or we may need to do a "Part II: 1960's and Later" version

Not sure you really need to do that, because right about 1960-1965 we saw the introduction of vinyl-dipped handles. "Handle patterns" kind of became a thing of the past at that point.

I know there is interest in European,

Considering that the second-hand market is literally glutted with examples from Western Germany made post WWII, yes - those persistent inquiries about that massive amount of production will continue. That said:

Working with my German pliers I wonder if it becomes too complicated

Yes, it does, because there is almost no way at this point in time to determine which little shop in Remscheid or Wuppertal was producing what for whom - the overall picture appears to be dozens of small makers who were filling contracts for American importers (e.g., Spiegel Bros.) or larger outfits like Sears.
I think this suggestion might be a more logical and fruitful option:

My inclination would be to classify those as one pattern.

^ As in @LesserSon's "Nested diamonds meets arrow fletching" pattern commonly seen on pieces from Sheffield and other points.

 

[four.cycle]

we really need something like that for the logos

 

[Eric Brown]

Looks like my Dunlap lineman’s pliers might be related to those. I assume Sears sourced those from Germany prior to WW2.
-Don

I agree. They look the same except the name. So far the best guess as to maker is W-----Co

 

[Eric Brown]

Cleaned up a couple of my dads old pliers. Nothing new. The top one is a Channellock 348 1/2 and the bottom one is a Crescent Tool Co. 1000-10. Thought some might like seeing them after a clean/polish.

 

[Eric Brown]

Went to the AA website you referenced; noticed the Witherby 1855 4.5 Inch Side-Cutting Pliers with the handle grip pattern looking very close to that used by Germany’s Harry P. Will Co./Hoppe & Harry P. Will.

four.cycle just posted: “I have ebay photos of Witherby-branded items from England, Germany, West Germany, Spain, Italy, and Japan. Note the address shown in the 1963 Witherby magazine ad is the same as that of John H. Graham & Co., New York, NY, another major importer of all manner of products.”

Have also been on a wild goose chase re: Witherby/Sheffield/England.

For me another suspicion of an end of WWII entrepreneurial maneuver; Marshall Plan sub-chapter - Maybe a way to re-pay U.S. loans; as a country, at that time, we certainly didn’t have a shortage of quality tool-makers.

A little late but here are a couple Witherby tools, both from Germany. The pliers are marked with the Witherby name and 1517, Cast into both handles is Germany - Drop Forged. The ratchet screwdriver is Witherby, No. 7524, Germany. Also, there is a triangle cross the W.
Tried to match to other ratchet screwdrivers I have but this one has a shorter ratchet and a larger handle than any others.
Sorry, unable to determine makers yet.

 

[Eric Brown]

Another German group. These all share the same pivot design, a fixed rivet. The first two are marked DGRM, Bruno Will, Germany.
The next one is Ritter Carlton, Integrity, Germany. The last tow are similar but the first on (#5) has West Germany and 1372 Drop Forged on the handle. The last one (#6) only has 001372 Drop Forged on the handle. Both have interesting handle designs. These are similar to some of the Bonney's a few posts back.

I have two more to add to this group. One is marked Oxwall Tool Co, Forged, German British zone. Similar to the others except for the finger gripped handle. The other one is marked DRGM, Bruno Will, Germany.

 

[Eric Brown]

Need help identifying this one. Unmarked with plain handles. The pivot is interesting because it has a four sided lobe-like design where it fits into appropriate positions. The pivot is riveted. Any ideas?

 

[Outlawmws]

Can you open it to show the position lockup details? Arc or slip joint?

 

[LesserSon]

Need help identifying this one. Unmarked with plain handles. The pivot is interesting because it has a four sided lobe-like design where it fits into appropriate positions. The pivot is riveted. Any ideas?

Not sure what you mean by “four sided lobe-like” - is it this? Palmer Bros, Meadville PA.

 

[Eric Brown]

Not sure what you mean by “four sided lobe-like” - is it this? Palmer Bros, Meadville PA.

Yes, that is it. Can't take apart. Thank you.

 

[Eric Brown]

Can you open it to show the position lockup details? Arc or slip joint?

Neither. Can't take apart but the following post shows its Palmers patent 2152563 (1939). Its a rounded rectangle.