OK, here's some pics. They're not as bad as I remembered, I think wrench for wrench the Whitworth's I have are actually a little rougher. I added a Whitworth close-up and some British Association sized spanners too to continue the utilitarian theme.
Plomb tool picture thread - show your stuff!
- Thread starter GRX
- Start date
Thanks. I get it.
I think when the Plomb polished steel era ended sometime around 41, the war era tools that followed had ALREADY (understandably) took a pretty big hit aesthetically. Assuming these wrenches are wartime production. Management had to maximize profits, meet production schedules and contract specifications, play up their wartime contributions, replace employees, deal with restrictions, and look to the post war competitive environment including the possibility of expanding their markets, among other things. It looks like for the tools they sent across the pond they decided, and I'll bet after some debate, to go strict utilitarian, arguably more so than some other companies.
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
I have this proto flying lady top chest #9997... any body know what years this was made by chance ? I have not done any research on it but want to say 50’s ? Edges are square not round like my pressteel top chests so I am not 100% sure if it was still made by them at this late in the game ? I would love to find the corresponding lower roller to make a full set!
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My good buddy rileysan was able to answer my question about the age of this top chest #9997 from a 1962-1963 proto catalog he has! I tried to look at toolarchives but the site is down ? This chest is listed in that catalog as well as the corresponding lower “tool mobile” although it looks nothing like a tool mobile [emoji23] he took some pictures of the catalog! After some discussion we believe it was made by amd by looking at the side handles and the square side characteristics. Now I just need to find the correct lower roller !
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bmwrd0
Well-known member
Smoke, I have a P&C from the same era, two drawer top box I am not sure what I am doing with yet.
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
Smoke, I have a P&C from the same era, two drawer top box I am not sure what I am doing with yet.
Very nice ! I think rileysan has the same one or similar that he bought from mr.x ?
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ssdave
Banned
I have a red flying lady 9997 like Smokeshow69 showed, but I also have an un-numbered one that is slightly older, in green instead of red. I posted it earlier, a few pages back in this thread, but here's a picture of it:
Rileysan
Well-known member
Smoke, I have a P&C from the same era, two drawer top box I am not sure what I am doing with yet.
As Smokeshow has already stated, i have a P&C 2d like yours that I bought from Mr. X. I also own a 6d P&C chest I picked up near Tacoma last year as well as a 6d Proto chest just like Smokeshow's box.
All that to say Proto/P&C roller cabinets are hard to come by around here.
Brian
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
I have a red flying lady 9997 like Smokeshow69 showed, but I also have an un-numbered one that is slightly older, in green instead of red. I posted it earlier, a few pages back in this thread, but here's a picture of it:
I love this box! It looks very well cared for ! If I remember correctly you paid $40 for it ?
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Smokeshow69
Well-known member
They are not that hard to come by around here [emoji51][emoji41] they always seem to find me. I am not sure why you guys are having trouble ? I just scored a plvmb top chest this weekend that I will post later .
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Okay, boys, who's got his arms, who's got his legs, and who's doing the pounding?
Rileysan
Well-known member
I was specifically talking about 60s rollers (flying lady, P&C) not Pressteel made toolmobiles. Funny how they seem to find you but not you find them
...Brian
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
I think you overpaid [emoji41] just kidding, that was a great grab !
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Smokeshow69
Well-known member
I was specifically talking about 60s rollers (flying lady, P&C) not Pressteel made toolmobiles. Funny how they seem to find you but not you find them
Brian
Very true, the flying lady and p&c rollers are more difficult to find... if I recall correctly you had a hand in me obtaining at least 7 of my proto/ plvmb/ p&c tool boxes so I can’t really take the credit [emoji23]
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Smokeshow69
Well-known member
I was specifically talking about 60s rollers (flying lady, P&C) not Pressteel made toolmobiles. Funny how they seem to find you but not you find them
Brian
Very true, the flying lady and p&c rollers are more difficult to find... if I recall correctly you had a hand in me obtaining at least 7 of my proto/ plvmb/ p&c tool boxes so I can’t really take the credit [emoji23]
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Rileysan
Well-known member
Only 7? I'm slacking!
ljhhontx
Well-known member
I just remembered that I have somewhere a set of plumb ratcheting box ends, only one end per wrench that the strange thing is the size marked on them is the bolt size, like a 9/16" is marked 3/8". Is anyone familiar with this set? When I come across them I will post photos if anyone shows interest.
r_olson_06
Well-known member
Could be Whitworth or BS sizes. Never seen a Plomb ratcheting wrench before. Post some pics up.
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Smokeshow69
Well-known member
Sorry, I forgot this one that you alerted me to the posting so this makes 8
rileysan alerted me to a posting on Craigslist Seattle where a plomb tool collection was being liquidated and I literally stopped my run on the treadmill to email the seller... i negotiated a deal on several items which included this 9989 top chest! It is complete minus the top part of the gasp but is in otherwise good shape given its age! I was able to bundle the items together and got this for $20! As you can see, it is missing some of the wrinkle paint but I am excited to have it as I have none. The seller even threw in a bunch of plomb, proto and p&c drivers which I have not even sorted yet. Looks like this box is one that they made and stuffed in a warehouse in the 30’s and then pulled out during war time and put the more modern sticker on the inside of the lid.
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Rileysan
Well-known member
I gotta give credit where credit's due. You're my single biggest (worst?) influence. I have acquired some amazing items because of your keen eye. Quid Pro Quo! Quid Pro Quo!
Oldtuleguy
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Wow, missing some wrinkle paint. I don't know, maybe you overpaid!
Rileysan
Well-known member
Did you catch the part where he got all the screwdrivers along with the box for that price? Yeah, he *****!
Brian
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
I gotta give credit where credit's due. You're my single biggest (worst?) influence. I have acquired some amazing items because of your keen eye. Quid Pro Quo! Quid Pro Quo!
I try to lay low and when I see a good deal, if I can’t grab it, I send it to the guy who will want it! I have probably sent Rileysan at least 20 vintage craftsman postings for tool boxes, power tools and other wicked cool things.
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DD T/A
Well-known member
Has anyone figured out what circumstances dictated the use of blue paint or red paint for screwdriver stripes?
Catfishdan
Well-known member
I believe blue is for Phillips and red for flat head.
bmwrd0
Well-known member
Nice find Smoke!
" Looks like this box is one that they made and stuffed in a warehouse in the 30’s and then pulled out during war time and put the more modern sticker on the inside of the lid."
They made that box through the Proto LA period (I missed one by seconds) and I have a red Plomb one. The ones from the '30's had square corners and edges. When does that sticker date from? It is the same one on my 9999 top box.
" Looks like this box is one that they made and stuffed in a warehouse in the 30’s and then pulled out during war time and put the more modern sticker on the inside of the lid."
They made that box through the Proto LA period (I missed one by seconds) and I have a red Plomb one. The ones from the '30's had square corners and edges. When does that sticker date from? It is the same one on my 9999 top box.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
beemer,
I am pretty sure Smoke is referring to the O's in PLOMB, TOOLs, LOS, and CO on the box, and the V's in the PLVMB and TVVLS on the sticker. We've seen that combination before. Based on the embossed markings alone, the box was either made before 1934 (when they first started using a V in Plomb instead of an O) and warehoused as excess/surplus, or it was made after 1934 and their supplier continued using the same embossing die despite the O-to-V change in the logo, which Plomb amended with the stickers. The sharp versus rounded corners distinction has been noted before, but I've never seen a definitive cutover date for it. Do you have one? That would definitely help. Between the markings, the construction features, and the finish it seems like we should really be able to put this to bed already, but I don't think anyone has, definitively. I could be wrong on that!
I am pretty sure Smoke is referring to the O's in PLOMB, TOOLs, LOS, and CO on the box, and the V's in the PLVMB and TVVLS on the sticker. We've seen that combination before. Based on the embossed markings alone, the box was either made before 1934 (when they first started using a V in Plomb instead of an O) and warehoused as excess/surplus, or it was made after 1934 and their supplier continued using the same embossing die despite the O-to-V change in the logo, which Plomb amended with the stickers. The sharp versus rounded corners distinction has been noted before, but I've never seen a definitive cutover date for it. Do you have one? That would definitely help. Between the markings, the construction features, and the finish it seems like we should really be able to put this to bed already, but I don't think anyone has, definitively. I could be wrong on that!
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
Well rileysan found it, I negotiated the deal and then my brother physically went and picked up the items since he lives there so I must give credit where do on this one! In terms of the sticker, it is the same one as is on my plomb top chest like the one you have... I believe it to be war time ? It show the plane and the ship and so I call it the industrial sticker . I do have the Proto LA version that is not as nice as this one . I do need to find the red plomb version and would also like to find the p&c version as well but you can’t have them all[emoji51]
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Smokeshow69
Well-known member
Yes, correct! I was thinking due to the round o’s my box may be 30’s ? But I also understand Bmwrd0 and his point about the corners being rounded and not square like some I have seen... I don’t know as much about these smaller boxes as I would like and definitely am up for learning!
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bmwrd0
Well-known member
Lugz,
"I am pretty sure Smoke is referring to the O's in PLOMB, TOOLs, LOS, and CO on the box, and the V's in the PLVMB and TVVLS on the sticker. We've seen that combination before. Based on the embossed markings alone, the box was either made before 1934 (when they first started using a V in Plomb instead of an O) and warehoused as excess/surplus, or it was made after 1934 and their supplier continued using the same embossing die despite the O-to-V change in the logo, which Plomb amended with the stickers. The sharp versus rounded corners distinction has been noted before, but I've never seen a definitive cutover date for it. Do you have one? That would definitely help. Between the markings, the construction features, and the finish it seems like we should really be able to put this to bed already, but I don't think anyone has, definitively. I could be wrong on that!"
I don't think that is quite right. If you notice, Smokes has rounded corners, and this pic (drawing) is from the '36 catalog:
Notice the square corner's, but the O's in the logo are the V's. My red version has the rounded corners, but the logo is painted, making it from the very end of the Plomb period.
For a while, I have been thinking about this, and my conclusion is that the boxes themselves were in constant production without any just sitting around, but that the embossing die was the same and in use over many years. Possible different die versions were in use by different factories, but I am less sure of that. As I said, narrowing down when each logo sticker was in use would help us in this.
Just my thoughts. Worth the same $.02 as anyone else's.
"I am pretty sure Smoke is referring to the O's in PLOMB, TOOLs, LOS, and CO on the box, and the V's in the PLVMB and TVVLS on the sticker. We've seen that combination before. Based on the embossed markings alone, the box was either made before 1934 (when they first started using a V in Plomb instead of an O) and warehoused as excess/surplus, or it was made after 1934 and their supplier continued using the same embossing die despite the O-to-V change in the logo, which Plomb amended with the stickers. The sharp versus rounded corners distinction has been noted before, but I've never seen a definitive cutover date for it. Do you have one? That would definitely help. Between the markings, the construction features, and the finish it seems like we should really be able to put this to bed already, but I don't think anyone has, definitively. I could be wrong on that!"
I don't think that is quite right. If you notice, Smokes has rounded corners, and this pic (drawing) is from the '36 catalog:
Notice the square corner's, but the O's in the logo are the V's. My red version has the rounded corners, but the logo is painted, making it from the very end of the Plomb period.
For a while, I have been thinking about this, and my conclusion is that the boxes themselves were in constant production without any just sitting around, but that the embossing die was the same and in use over many years. Possible different die versions were in use by different factories, but I am less sure of that. As I said, narrowing down when each logo sticker was in use would help us in this.
Just my thoughts. Worth the same $.02 as anyone else's.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Awhile ago I looked at the boxes in the c.'36, c.'38, c.'40, and c.'42 cats and made a bunch of notes on model number, markings, and color/finish, but it just made my head hurt. I did not include construction, because honestly, I don't think all the figures in all the catalogs were clear enough for me to make a determination on that. The only thing I remember is too many inconsistencies for me to make sense of it all. What I had in mind was a sort of timeline, but I just got frustrated. If you think you have it straight, beemer, I'd love to see it laid out.
So when do you think the corners went from square to rounded?
So when do you think the corners went from square to rounded?
d42jeep
Well-known member
The three sets on the right side of the picture below left all have round the O embossed and paper tags inside with PL∇MB. The set on the bottom right was pretty definitively made in 1939. I believe that the embossing was changed as time went on but Plomb may have been using older boxes. I’m not sure that we will ever know for sure, however. It’s interesting that even the Plomb illustrators weren’t consistent in the catalogs. See the round O in the catalog listing below.
-Don
-Don
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bmwrd0
Well-known member
I have the feeling that the change to round corners on that box modelwas about WWII, either just before or just after. I don't have nor have seen a '41 or '42 catalog (I am just guessing about a '42, as I do a little print work and know the lead time for that could pre-date Pearl Harbor.) In the '40 catalog, they are listed shown with square corners, but not in the post-war catalogs. But I would say that only with certainty for that model.
I think that with the war on, and Plomb picking up so many factories, that there isn't a hard and fast rule. That each model, at each factory it was made at, was different coming out of the war. And that is why we have trouble figuring out the timeline.
This is just to show off.
I think that with the war on, and Plomb picking up so many factories, that there isn't a hard and fast rule. That each model, at each factory it was made at, was different coming out of the war. And that is why we have trouble figuring out the timeline.
This is just to show off.
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
I have the feeling that the change to round corners on that box modelwas about WWII, either just before or just after. I don't have nor have seen a '41 or '42 catalog (I am just guessing about a '42, as I do a little print work and know the lead time for that could pre-date Pearl Harbor.) In the '40 catalog, they are listed shown with square corners, but not in the post-war catalogs. But I would say that only with certainty for that model.
I think that with the war on, and Plomb picking up so many factories, that there isn't a hard and fast rule. That each model, at each factory it was made at, was different coming out of the war. And that is why we have trouble figuring out the timeline.
This is just to show off.
I reconize that bent midget t handle [emoji23] and yes, I think your explanation is plausible. FYI I do think you are showing off !
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d42jeep
Well-known member
Showing off is not allowed! Still looking for a green toolbox though. One of you Pacific Northwest Guys should take pity on me!
-Don
-Don
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r_olson_06
Well-known member
Them boxes are in great shape. I am green with envy.
Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches
1164, 3732, 3032, 3055, 3060, 3061, 3062, 3070
Rileysan
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bmwrd0
Well-known member
Oldtuleguy
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I am getting ready to paint mine so don't get too worked up when I post it.
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
Should be fine as long as it is green [emoji23]
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RagTopTA
Well-known member
mine has no paint left on it,... its bare metal.. I keep thinking I should just buff it.... it would be pretty awesome I think!