d42jeep
Well-known member
We found some Plomb tools at a sale today a few blocks from home. Some of it is pretty early. The deep socket turned out to be cracked. The ratchet works like new though, so I guess I won’t complain.
-Don
-Don
Plomb tool picture thread - show your stuff!
- Thread starter GRX
- Start date
r_olson_06
Well-known member
Nice find on the AD series DBE. I only have one and mine is a super thick handle.
Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,
d42jeep
Well-known member
I cleaned up some of the more rusty Plomb items and they look much better. I have a small AD DBE as well. They are pretty crude. The 1934 speeder really benefited from its Evaporust bath.
-Don
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r_olson_06
Well-known member
I think the AD series DBEs only had 6 or 7 in the set. You are almost half way done.
Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,
r_olson_06
Well-known member
The 1928 catalog shows 6. The one O have is not in catalog (AD1012) so maybe another catalog has more
Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,
I've had some Plomb pebble combo wrenches with a coating that looked like that--a semi-flat silver color. It easily began to flake off after a bath in degreaser/solvent, so I suspected it to be paint. Was Plomb known to paint any of their tools, especially during wartime?
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RubiconJK
Well-known member
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Whatever that finish is (cadmium, paint, or some kind of silver oxide) on tym's Pebble combos, it looks to be exactly the same as what's on Rubicon's hinge handle, and I suspect it was on my Pebble 5400-AB set, which I almost ruined in Evaporust. (As you guys may recall, that set was literally caked in total rust. When I checked on them the first time was the first time I could see that they had some kind of finish.)
As for the Pebble production period, I proved back in 2017 that the drive tools were introduced in 1944, and the wrenches in 1946. Todd's subsequent advertising research confirmed that.
Plomb may have continued that finish after the war, as an economic advantage, or it is indeed just very thin chrome plating, as Rubicon initially suspected, applied before the war (in his case) and after the war (in tym's). We all need to acknowledge that if the latter is true, it takes a little shine off the Plomb high quality apple. EDIT: For that reason alone, I am going with paint or silver oxide until proven otherwise.
As for the Pebble production period, I proved back in 2017 that the drive tools were introduced in 1944, and the wrenches in 1946. Todd's subsequent advertising research confirmed that.
Plomb may have continued that finish after the war, as an economic advantage, or it is indeed just very thin chrome plating, as Rubicon initially suspected, applied before the war (in his case) and after the war (in tym's). We all need to acknowledge that if the latter is true, it takes a little shine off the Plomb high quality apple. EDIT: For that reason alone, I am going with paint or silver oxide until proven otherwise.
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twertsy
Well-known member
Whatever that finish is (cadmium, paint, or some kind of silver oxide) on tym's Pebble combos, it looks to be exactly the same as what's on Rubicon's hinge handle, and I suspect it was on my Pebble 5400-AB set, which I almost ruined in Evaporust. (As you guys may recall, that set was literally caked in total rust. When I checked on them the first time was the first time I could see that they had some kind of finish.)
As for the Pebble production period, I proved back in 2017 that the drive tools were introduced in 1944, and the wrenches in 1946. Todd's subsequent advertising research confirmed that.
Plomb may have continued that finish after the war, as an economic advantage, or it is indeed just very thin chrome plating, as Rubicon initially suspected, applied before the war (in his case) and after the war (in tym's). We all need to acknowledge that if the latter is true, it takes a little shine off the Plomb high quality apple. EDIT: For that reason alone, I am going with paint or silver oxide until proven otherwise.
Perhaps this is the reason they invented their wonderful plating process/arms in ?'47? (I think)
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Hmm. Interesting connection. Just consulted the "Burn Marks" thread. Patented 11/47. Do all pre-war Plomb tools that are chrome plated have an inferior thin chrome plating? Is it a characteristic? You could be onto something. Something surely motivated them to improve their process.
d42jeep
Well-known member
ssdave
Banned
I need to post a picture, I'll try to remember to do it. I've meant to do this for a few months, but they're in my user box and I never think to take a picture and post it.
I have a set of DBE wrenches, plain steel, not chromed, that have the infamous "burn marks" on them. I'll have to look more closely to make sure that they don't have some residual plating, but I've always been sure they're unplated.
The burn marks are durable, they're still there after being used by me for over 25 years. They are on the first set of Proto's I ever had, and they are Proto LA. I assumed for years that the marks were from being held in some sort of a wrench holder, that caused them to rust more there than the uniform brown/gray well worn rust finish over the rest of the wrench.
Edit: Adding pictures, remembered to take them. My memory was faulty, the wrench that is largest has the burn marks, but the others don't. The largest one is plated, the others are plain steel. Also took pictures of a single mark on another dbe that is also plated.
I have a set of DBE wrenches, plain steel, not chromed, that have the infamous "burn marks" on them. I'll have to look more closely to make sure that they don't have some residual plating, but I've always been sure they're unplated.
The burn marks are durable, they're still there after being used by me for over 25 years. They are on the first set of Proto's I ever had, and they are Proto LA. I assumed for years that the marks were from being held in some sort of a wrench holder, that caused them to rust more there than the uniform brown/gray well worn rust finish over the rest of the wrench.
Edit: Adding pictures, remembered to take them. My memory was faulty, the wrench that is largest has the burn marks, but the others don't. The largest one is plated, the others are plain steel. Also took pictures of a single mark on another dbe that is also plated.
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
I don't have an explanation for the single burn mark, other than anomaly, but the other one is very typical, Dave. The two marks are made from the electrical flow coming through the arms of the rack that the wrench is sitting on, and the third mark on the flip side was made from the electrical flow coming through a spring-loaded arm that clamped down on the wrench to hold it tight on the rack arms. Here is a link to the "Plomb/Proto Burn Marks" thread.
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driftpin
Well-known member
I found this at a Habitat for Humanity, along with some other stuff. I got some files with a long triangular shape on either end, and connected in the middle by a solid rod, they were marked 'Bell Telephone.'
The Plomb beam style torque wrench is in pretty-good shape, cosmetically, and the pointer sits at 0.
The Plomb beam style torque wrench is in pretty-good shape, cosmetically, and the pointer sits at 0.
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
I got my trade package (three WF-series 3/8 Drive pcs) in the mail from tin medic today, prompting the photo update I promised when I re-finished the 5295 box.
It's funny how things work sometimes. Where Plomb was concerned, I was content for years with myth-busting research (Pebble Plomb Production Timeline, Transition Production Timeline) and flipping my WWII era flea market finds to fellow WWII collectors here in the US and in Europe to fund my other mfgr keeper collecting. But I found a bunch of WF- series 3/8 Drive pcs in need of a box and then I found that 5400-AB set and all of a sudden I wish I had back one of the three 47XX sets I have had and sold in the past for the trifecta.
This collection is a superset, per se, with mainly WF- series, but there are a few 52xx placeholders (and the 18" extension, which they didn't make for the Air Corps), and the Plomb PWA spark plug socket you guys have seen before.
CONTENTS LIST:
* 5260, 3/8 Drive 3" Extension *
WF-17, 3/8 Drive 5" Extension
* WF-18, 3/8 Drive 7" Extension (missing) *
WF-19k, 3/8 Drive 12" Extension
5263, 3/8 Drive 18" Extension
WF-20a, 3/8 Drive Flex Breaker Bar /Extension
WF-21, 3/8 Drive Ratchet
WF-22, 3/8 Drive Sliding T-Bar
WF-23, 3/8 Drive Speed Wrench
WF-24, 3/8 Drive Universal Adapter
WF-25c, 3/8 Drive Socket 1/4" service opening
WF-26, 3/8 Drive Socket 5/16" service opening
WF-27, 3/8 Drive Socket 3/8" service opening
WF-28, 3/8 Drive Socket 7/16" service opening
WF-29, 3/8 Drive Socket 1/2" service opening
* 5218, 3/8 Drive Socket 9/16" service opening *
* 5220, 3/8 Drive Socket 5/8" service opening *
WF-32c, 3/8 Drive Socket 11/16" service opening
WF-33, 3/8 Drive Socket 3/4" service opening
PWA-2254, 3/8 Drive Deep Socket 7/8" service opening
WF-72, 3/8 Drive Swivel Socket 3/8" service opening
WF-73c, 3/8 Drive Swivel Socket 7/16" service opening
WF-74, 3/8 Drive Swivel Socket 1/2" service opening
WF-75, 3/8 Drive Swivel Socket 9/16" service opening
WF-76, 3/8 Drive Swivel Socket 5/8" service opening
WF-77c, 3/8 Drive Swivel Socket 11/16" service opening
WF-78c, 3/8 Drive Swivel Socket 3/4" service opening
It's funny how things work sometimes. Where Plomb was concerned, I was content for years with myth-busting research (Pebble Plomb Production Timeline, Transition Production Timeline) and flipping my WWII era flea market finds to fellow WWII collectors here in the US and in Europe to fund my other mfgr keeper collecting. But I found a bunch of WF- series 3/8 Drive pcs in need of a box and then I found that 5400-AB set and all of a sudden I wish I had back one of the three 47XX sets I have had and sold in the past for the trifecta.
This collection is a superset, per se, with mainly WF- series, but there are a few 52xx placeholders (and the 18" extension, which they didn't make for the Air Corps), and the Plomb PWA spark plug socket you guys have seen before.
CONTENTS LIST:
* 5260, 3/8 Drive 3" Extension *
WF-17, 3/8 Drive 5" Extension
* WF-18, 3/8 Drive 7" Extension (missing) *
WF-19k, 3/8 Drive 12" Extension
5263, 3/8 Drive 18" Extension
WF-20a, 3/8 Drive Flex Breaker Bar /Extension
WF-21, 3/8 Drive Ratchet
WF-22, 3/8 Drive Sliding T-Bar
WF-23, 3/8 Drive Speed Wrench
WF-24, 3/8 Drive Universal Adapter
WF-25c, 3/8 Drive Socket 1/4" service opening
WF-26, 3/8 Drive Socket 5/16" service opening
WF-27, 3/8 Drive Socket 3/8" service opening
WF-28, 3/8 Drive Socket 7/16" service opening
WF-29, 3/8 Drive Socket 1/2" service opening
* 5218, 3/8 Drive Socket 9/16" service opening *
* 5220, 3/8 Drive Socket 5/8" service opening *
WF-32c, 3/8 Drive Socket 11/16" service opening
WF-33, 3/8 Drive Socket 3/4" service opening
PWA-2254, 3/8 Drive Deep Socket 7/8" service opening
WF-72, 3/8 Drive Swivel Socket 3/8" service opening
WF-73c, 3/8 Drive Swivel Socket 7/16" service opening
WF-74, 3/8 Drive Swivel Socket 1/2" service opening
WF-75, 3/8 Drive Swivel Socket 9/16" service opening
WF-76, 3/8 Drive Swivel Socket 5/8" service opening
WF-77c, 3/8 Drive Swivel Socket 11/16" service opening
WF-78c, 3/8 Drive Swivel Socket 3/4" service opening
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RubiconJK
Well-known member
Plomb may have continued that finish after the war, as an economic advantage, or it is indeed just very thin chrome plating, as Rubicon initially suspected, applied before the war (in his case) and after the war (in tym's). We all need to acknowledge that if the latter is true, it takes a little shine off the Plomb high quality apple. EDIT: For that reason alone, I am going with paint or silver oxide until proven otherwise.
Since Don's set and other pre war chrome I've seen are very well done, I wonder if the (possible) thin plating examples might be immediate pre and post war are just indicative of a plating process in transition? That said, I can also go along with Lugz that paint or silver oxide might have actually been the transition process rather than chrome plating.
RubiconJK
Well-known member
Nice and the box looks awesome! I'll check my duplicates to see if I have anything to plug in where you have the 52XX stand-ins.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
On the 'one size does NOT fit all' WF-23 speeder topic I posted several pages back now..., here is an illustration. The WF-23 speeder I put in the set fits perfectly, as you can see in the photos in my post above. This particular WF-23 will not fit in this 5295 box. When the handle above the swing is in, the shank won't fit (See Pic 1). When the shank below the swing is in, the handle won't fit (See Pic 2). It's the shape of the swing.
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
One more pic.
One of the swivels has what may be the mystery finish. That dark splotch is not on top of the finish, it's underneath. That's bare steel.
The other piece is the drive end of one of the WF- sockets. Unusually scored with crosshairs. I have never seen that before.
One of the swivels has what may be the mystery finish. That dark splotch is not on top of the finish, it's underneath. That's bare steel.
The other piece is the drive end of one of the WF- sockets. Unusually scored with crosshairs. I have never seen that before.
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RubiconJK
Well-known member
Lugz, I've seen PO marks like the cross hairs on your socket before.
ssdave
Banned
Looking at the thin plating on my Proto example I posted earlier, I wonder if it isn't nickel plating, rather than chrome. A lot of chrome plating is done that way, they do copper flash coat, then nickel for durability and corrosion resistance, and then a very thin chrome coat for brightness.
If I remember from physical chemistry right, nickel is more reactive (electropotential voltage to measure that) than iron, so it oxidizes and goes away. The only reason it works is that it's rate of reaction is slow, so it goes away slowly, so it is there to block the iron from corrosion. That's why you rarely see old nickel plated objects with a good finish. It slowly oxidizes away. Similar to what happens to zinc coated (galvanized) roofs.
Nickel plating would explain the uniform worn away finish that these old wrenches show.
If I remember from physical chemistry right, nickel is more reactive (electropotential voltage to measure that) than iron, so it oxidizes and goes away. The only reason it works is that it's rate of reaction is slow, so it goes away slowly, so it is there to block the iron from corrosion. That's why you rarely see old nickel plated objects with a good finish. It slowly oxidizes away. Similar to what happens to zinc coated (galvanized) roofs.
Nickel plating would explain the uniform worn away finish that these old wrenches show.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Ah. That makes sense.
ssdave
Banned
Doing some online reading, it is probable that the plating on Plomb/Proto was predominately nickel, with a surface plate of chromium. It was also a fact that around 1950, there was a shortage of nickel, and plating thicknesses were reduced, with resultant short lifespan. That would explain the thin to non-existant plating on my Proto LA wrenches.
Here's an interesting reference with a lot of timeline info on plating processes:
https://www.pfonline.com/articles/a-retrospective-view-of-nickel-plating
Here's an interesting reference with a lot of timeline info on plating processes:
https://www.pfonline.com/articles/a-retrospective-view-of-nickel-plating
d42jeep
Well-known member
Speaking of Tin Medic, he generously sent me his extremely rare, almost complete, 1/4” drive Navy NAF socket set and it arrived last night. Since I had traded bmwrd0 for a 3/8” and 11/32” NAF socket, I was able to complete the set and get some pictures. Here they are along with my original set filled with conventional Plomb tools. I am not aware of any other complete sets.
-Don
-Don
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RubiconJK
Well-known member
Awesome! Congrats Don. If there is another complete set, I've never seen it.
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
Now this is just bragging [emoji23] you have not one but 2 NAF sets. Now we know we’re all the sets left in existence went. I do not know of a more appropriate home for them ! Glad to see the sets together. Did you post them in the 1/4 drive thread yet, Don ?
Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app
oldmantaylor
Well-known member
I'm missing several pieces from my set.
d42jeep
Well-known member
Jim,
Thanks for weighing in. I closely checked out your set when you showed it back in post #3261. Some of the pieces are NAF marked. Which ones are you missing so I can keep an eye out?
-Don
d42jeep
Well-known member
No I haven’t, but I will soon.oldmantaylor
Well-known member
I'm missing the -5, -9, -12 and -14. Interestingly enough I have a dual marked 6" extension - 4761/NAF 39120-22, and a 4795/NAF 39120-21.The set calls out for an NAF 1108-13 (which I have), and an NAF 1108-12.
3baygarage
Well-known member
Ran across this little Proto 1/4 stubby spinner that’s been tucked away in a drawer for years. I guess the red paint was added, it’s on the shank as well as handle.
Combined with two different Plomb spinners from the last year for a modest trio.
Plomb 4769- name on handle
Plomb 4769 - name on shank
Proto 4767- stubby
Two different shaped metal female ends
Combined with two different Plomb spinners from the last year for a modest trio.
Plomb 4769- name on handle
Plomb 4769 - name on shank
Proto 4767- stubby
Two different shaped metal female ends
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RagTopTA
Well-known member
I got my trade package (three WF-series 3/8 Drive pcs) in the mail from tin medic today, prompting the photo update I promised when I re-finished the 5295 box.
It's funny how things work sometimes. Where Plomb was concerned, I was content for years with myth-busting research (Pebble Plomb Production Timeline, Transition Production Timeline) and flipping my WWII era flea market finds to fellow WWII collectors here in the US and in Europe to fund my other mfgr keeper collecting. But I found a bunch of WF- series 3/8 Drive pcs in need of a box and then I found that 5400-AB set and all of a sudden I wish I had back one of the three 47XX sets I have had and sold in the past for the trifecta.
This collection is a superset, per se, with mainly WF- series, but there are a few 52xx placeholders (and the 18" extension, which they didn't make for the Air Corps), and the Plomb PWA spark plug socket you guys have seen before.
CONTENTS LIST:
* 5260, 3/8 Drive 3" Extension *
WF-17, 3/8 Drive 5" Extension
* WF-18, 3/8 Drive 7" Extension (missing) *
WF-19k, 3/8 Drive 12" Extension
5263, 3/8 Drive 18" Extension
WF-20a, 3/8 Drive Flex Breaker Bar /Extension
WF-21, 3/8 Drive Ratchet
WF-22, 3/8 Drive Sliding T-Bar
WF-23, 3/8 Drive Speed Wrench
WF-24, 3/8 Drive Universal Adapter
WF-25c, 3/8 Drive Socket 1/4" service opening
WF-26, 3/8 Drive Socket 5/16" service opening
WF-27, 3/8 Drive Socket 3/8" service opening
WF-28, 3/8 Drive Socket 7/16" service opening
WF-29, 3/8 Drive Socket 1/2" service opening
* 5218, 3/8 Drive Socket 9/16" service opening *
* 5220, 3/8 Drive Socket 5/8" service opening *
WF-32c, 3/8 Drive Socket 11/16" service opening
WF-33, 3/8 Drive Socket 3/4" service opening
PWA-2254, 3/8 Drive Deep Socket 7/8" service opening
WF-72, 3/8 Drive Swivel Socket 3/8" service opening
WF-73c, 3/8 Drive Swivel Socket 7/16" service opening
WF-74, 3/8 Drive Swivel Socket 1/2" service opening
WF-75, 3/8 Drive Swivel Socket 9/16" service opening
WF-76, 3/8 Drive Swivel Socket 5/8" service opening
WF-77c, 3/8 Drive Swivel Socket 11/16" service opening
WF-78c, 3/8 Drive Swivel Socket 3/4" service opening
that set came out really nice Lugz! I want to build a WF set some day when I get into collecting the WF series tools.
Those are awesome! So far I only have a few NAF pieces, my fav is the half inch drive ratchet!
r_olson_06
Well-known member
That is super cool Don. Glad to hear GJ members helping each other out.
Is there a master list of the NAF stuff or is it a mystery like WF series?
Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,
d42jeep
Well-known member
Lugz has printed out a NAF late war catalog of tools and I’ve gathered some of the tools in that catalog and put them in this NAF marked Kennedy cantilever box. There is no specific set as such so I’ve kind of gathered what I’ve been able to find for my own amusement. There is a thread on G503 that kind of shows how the set has evolved.
https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=290425
-Don
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
That is interesting, Jim. My hunch is a different set, perhaps earlier, or later, and maybe even bigger, with a different configuration, or for a different branch or section within the Navy Aviation bureau, but still bearing NAF stock numbers. The 11xx series is the only 1/4-inch set in the US Navy Aviation Supply Office Class 41 catalog I have. But that doesn't mean there isn't another manual out there we don't have.
Thanks, Rags. It wasn't really a goal until I realized I had a handful or two. I am surprised you haven't found a few pieces here and there within all your Plomb stuff.
The US Navy Aviation Supply Office Class 41 catalog includes thousands of tools and tool-sets. Some of them are Plomb, including the 1/4-inch set, of course, and a few DOE, DBE, and combo wrench sets. Also the screwdrivers, if I recall correctly off the top of my head. But the Navy bought tools from many other mfgrs, including Williams, Armstrong, and others. I have posted some excerpts before. I'll make a note to identify and post all the Plomb pieces and sets I can find in it. For clarity, what Don is referring to by "no specific set" is no specific set that goes in the NAF hip roof cantilevered toolbox. It was general utility.
r_olson_06
Well-known member
Any idea on the below? Has a U.S. stamp that appears to be stamped at the Plomb factory.
Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
The Navy was fairly particular about marking their tools, so I would suspect other. Normally when we see a "U.S." marking and there is already a COO forged or stamped on the tool with the factory branding info it's considered martial, but it is usually not applied by the factory. I agree this one does look factory. Very uniform with the PLOMB marking. A headscratcher.
I'm guessing the 391XX tools are earlier. I have a 1/2" drive socket 39119-30 with a 1939 date code and all of my NAF Plomb wrenches with 3106XX-** numbers have 1939 or 40 date codes whereas none of my 1147-X wrenches have a date code.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Makes a lot of sense.
RubiconJK
Well-known member
Any idea on the below? Has a U.S. stamp that appears to be stamped at the Plomb factory.
I recently found a Plomb piece with the US stamp. I'll post a picture later. The Vannatta website shows the "US" mark as part of their listing of known contract markings with this comment "Plomb special tools designed for the Aviation Industry".