Plomb tool picture thread - show your stuff!

[RubiconJK]

As the brass tag states, it was made by Sanders Co of Elizabeth City, NC. A couple of evenings of web searches didn't turn up much on Sanders Co other than they were founded in 1880 and at one time they had manufactured the old hand water pumps like was on my grandparents back porch at the farm. I did manage to find a phone number and gave them a call at lunch one day this week. Upon asking the lady who answered if anyone there might have knowledge of the cutter, she said "let me transfer you to Mr. Sanders"! I wound up visiting with current generation Mr. Sanders running the business and he was happy to talk to me. After explaining that he had a framed copy of the blue print for this device on the wall of his office, and referencing a dwg #1012-45, he explained that his Grandfather had been awarded contracts with the Navy during WWII for a few pieces of equipment. As he understood it, this Model B Cable cutter was used on the deck of aircraft carriers to cut the cable used to catch planes when they land.

 

[MR.X]

As the brass tag states, it was made by Sanders Co of Elizabeth City, NC. A couple of evenings of web searches didn't turn up much on Sanders Co other than they were founded in 1880 and at one time they had manufactured the old hand water pumps like was on my grandparents back porch at the farm. I did manage to find a phone number and gave them a call at lunch one day this week. Upon asking the lady who answered if anyone there might have knowledge of the cutter, she said "let me transfer you to Mr. Sanders"! I wound up visiting with current generation Mr. Sanders running the business and he was happy to talk to me. After explaining that he had a framed copy of the blue print for this device on the wall of his office, and referencing a dwg #1012-45, he explained that his Grandfather had been awarded contracts with the Navy during WWII for a few pieces of equipment. As he understood it, this Model B Cable cutter was used on the deck of aircraft carriers to cut the cable used to catch planes when they land.

Great work!

 

[RubiconJK]

This is a very well made and heavy tool and I'm super excited to have it in my collection. There is a lot of brass used especially in the working parts. I've not taken apart the gear box yet but everything works very well. It came with some spare cutter blades and now the challenge becomes how to display it! Curious if others have found these before. I did see a second one of these on ebay, but noticed that it has now sold, so hopefully one of you other guys wound up with it.

 

[r_olson_06]

As the brass tag states, it was made by Sanders Co of Elizabeth City, NC. A couple of evenings of web searches didn't turn up much on Sanders Co other than they were founded in 1880 and at one time they had manufactured the old hand water pumps like was on my grandparents back porch at the farm. I did manage to find a phone number and gave them a call at lunch one day this week. Upon asking the lady who answered if anyone there might have knowledge of the cutter, she said "let me transfer you to Mr. Sanders"! I wound up visiting with current generation Mr. Sanders running the business and he was happy to talk to me. After explaining that he had a framed copy of the blue print for this device on the wall of his office, and referencing a dwg #1012-45, he explained that his Grandfather had been awarded contracts with the Navy during WWII for a few pieces of equipment. As he understood it, this Model B Cable cutter was used on the deck of aircraft carriers to cut the cable used to catch planes when they land.

That is amazing. Really amazing detective work.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,

 

[RubiconJK]

Thanks Roy. It's the discovery process that I enjoy most about this hobby. I'm hoping someone who actually understands how the cable catcher on an aircraft carrier works might be on here and shed some light on why or when they would need to cut the cables.

 

[3baygarage]

Cool find. So does that make it a WF-21-Sanders?

 

[Outlawmws]

They would need to cut cable when a plane crash landed and tore things up. Those decks were mostly wood in WWII, so a plane wold tumble and the props could cut or damage the tail hook cables.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Great story, Rubicon! You and 3bay can start your own little wing of the GJ museum for WWII aircraft related dual-use ratchet-cranks.

 

[RubiconJK]

Cool find. So does that make it a WF-21-Sanders?

Ah ha, now we know what the S stands for! Lol

They would need to cut cable when a plane crash landed and tore things up. Those decks were mostly wood in WWII, so a plane wold tumble and the props could cut or damage the tail hook cables.

Thanks Outlaw. Makes sense. After playing with this thing a bit more, I can tell you that the ratio of the worm gear is super slow. It takes lots of turns to move the cutter blade much at all, thus the addition of the knob. Cutting a 2" cable would have taken lots of pressure and so I can see why a relatively short handle 3/8" drive ratchet still works. A faster blade movement to ratchet turn ratio would have required more torque from the user.

Great story, Rubicon! You and 3bay can start your own little wing of the GJ museum for WWII aircraft related dual-use ratchet-cranks.

 

[r_olson_06]

Hadn’t thought of it, I think that’s all the plomb i got and it was my grandpas but what you got to trade?

I don't want to trade with you if you have sentimental value towards it.

If you dont. It would be easier to tell me what your looking for and I will probably have it.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,

 

[MR.X]

I keep an eye out for WW2 Navy tools, and I haven’t seen any other Plomb tools with the N prefix. I just threw the thought out there because of the P&C N marked DBE wrenches that have been found. The P&C N marked wrenches, although very similar to WF wrenches, are not exactly the same even with the name number marking, from what I’ve seen.
-Don

This isn't quite the same thing as what you're talking about as the prefix here is before a standard Plomb tool no., but it's def. a U.S.N. tool.

 

[MR.X]

and another

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Saw this on craigslist today

 

[r_olson_06]

Saw this on craigslist today

That's a nice setup.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I resisted it. Looks pretty similar to the one I have, so I left it for someone else.

 

[r_olson_06]

I resisted it. Looks pretty similar to the one I have, so I left it for someone else.

How much?

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,

 

[RubiconJK]

I resisted it. Looks pretty similar to the one I have, so I left it for someone else.

What part of the world? Let me guess.....CA or anywhere else not close to TX?!!

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Az, phoenix craigslist if anyone is looking

 

[r_olson_06]

Az, phoenix craigslist if anyone is looking

Did a search didn't see it. Must have sold already.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,

 

[twertsy]

Saw this on craigslist today

So you got it right?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Oldtuleguy]

It was at the sun lakes community sale this morning. I was searching vintage toolbox and it came up

 

[3baygarage]

Lugz, I do have this to offer.

Now that we know about the Sanders cable tool, what about the longest running Proto mystery?

Here is a new discovery for me at least, 5449D-5. Looks like a another twist on the mysterious 5449D.

It’s only 8” long but made from a 1/2” ratchet. Shown next to a 1/2” Plomb. Thought I had a 5449D crank close by but guess not.

Who can solve the long running mystery?

 

[Provincial]

Did we ever determine just what NAF means? In 2018 Lugz pointed out that it does not mean a tool was used at the Naval Aircraft Factory. There was a referench to "Naval Air Force" with no documentation.

I was wondering if the Naval Aircraft Factory performed a service like Wright Field to order standardized tools for the Navy during WWII? Or was there another bureauacracy with the same initials?

 

[d42jeep]

That is correct, but as you know, that can also cause misguided conclusions by some collectors, so a quick elaboration on that...

The Naval Aviation Factory was built in Philadelphia in 1917 to provide the US Navy its own manufacturing plant for WWI. The Navy designed, built, and tested several types of aircraft from scratch there all the way up through the start of WWII, when things shifted to buying commercial products. In that ensuing period it became the center for all things Navy aviation related, including logistics. Since everything Navy aviation related was either being made or bought there, they used NAF- as a prefix for part numbers.

Point is, when one finds NAF-xxxx on a hip-roof cantilevered toolbox or a spark plug wrench or a OOAK midget socket set, it does not mean it came from or was used in the actual Naval Aviation Factory in Philly. Believe it or not, I've encountered that argument.

Here is Lugz post on the subject. He spells it out exactly. NAF worked just like Wright Field, only for the Navy. Here is the well worn cover of the scanned copy of the March 1944 NAF catalog that I’ve used to help determine what tools to include in my NAF toolbox. Lugz did the scans some time back. I don’t know if he still has any available.
-Don

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Great info don!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

What Don said. The only thing I would add is that by wartime, the NAF- stock numbers were dwindling, being replaced by federal stock numbers with an "R" prefix, indicating Navy ASO items. Roughly only 25% of the item in the "Blue Book" have an old NAF- stock number. Very equivalent to the Army. We get excited when we find wrenches with so-called Ordnance Dept "TAXI" numbers, but they were falling out of favor by WWII as well.

 

[RubiconJK]

Here is Lugz post on the subject. He spells it out exactly. NAF worked just like Wright Field, only for the Navy. Here is the well worn cover of the scanned copy of the March 1944 NAF catalog that I’ve used to help determine what tools to include in my NAF toolbox. Lugz did the scans some time back. I don’t know if he still has any available.
-Don

What Don said. The only thing I would add is that by wartime, the NAF- stock numbers were dwindling, being replaced by federal stock numbers with an "R" prefix, indicating Navy ASO items. Roughly only 25% of the item in the "Blue Book" have an old NAF- stock number. Very equivalent to the Army. We get excited when we find wrenches with so-called Ordnance Dept "TAXI" numbers, but they were falling out of favor by WWII as well.

Great info. Thanks guys.

 

[RubiconJK]

Lugz, I do have this to offer.

Now that we know about the Sanders cable tool, what about the longest running Proto mystery?

Here is a new discovery for me at least, 5449D-5. Looks like a another twist on the mysterious 5449D.

It’s only 8” long but made from a 1/2” ratchet. Shown next to a 1/2” Plomb. Thought I had a 5449D crank close by but guess not.

Who can solve the long running mystery?

3bay, yet another mystery! I went back and found your 5449D link you referenced.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242835&highlight=5449D&page=2
Also here was another related post that may give one possible solution although your D-5 doesn't have a crank hole in the end of the handle. Edit: Your 5449D photo does resemble the one pictured on the landing gear photo from the crank hole at the end of the handle to the back of the ratchet head. Wish the landing gear photo showed the other side of the ratchet head.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3223183&postcount=1

 

[3baygarage]

The 5449-D crank has a military appearance with the paint, but no one has ever tied them to a plane. There are quite a few out there. Snap on made a similar special ratchet in the same shape, I assume it had the same purpose. I forgot the part number. Someone may have one, I don't. Maybe Snapmom.

The landing gear ratchets I've seen photos of are strictly Snap On, and different than the 5449 rats. They were splined into the landing gear mechanism. I have it posted in the SO thread.

This is the first 5449 with the mystery gear I've seen with a knurled handle. I wonder if anyone here picked up that strange DDD model.

I've done some extensive internet image digging on the 5449D in the past and never found its military use. Must be top secret!

 

[3baygarage]

See here:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=251045

The SO opening is a perfect square it seems.

 

[RubiconJK]

The 5449-D crank has a military appearance with the paint, but no one has ever tied them to a plane. There are quite a few out there. Snap on made a similar special ratchet in the same shape, I assume it had the same purpose. I forgot the part number. Someone may have one, I don't. Maybe Snapmom.

The landing gear ratchets I've seen photos of are strictly Snap On, and different than the 5449 rats. They were splined into the landing gear mechanism. I have it posted in the SO thread.

This is the first 5449 with the mystery gear I've seen with a knurled handle. I wonder if anyone here picked up that strange DDD model.

I've done some extensive internet image digging on the 5449D in the past and never found its military use. Must be top secret!

See here:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=251045

The SO opening is a perfect square it seems.

I see what you mean. Do you know if anyone ever contacted Snap On back when you guys were posting about that ratchet in your link? The operating end opening of that SO ratchet does indeed resemble your 5449D. PS...I guess I should start frequenting the General discussion section. For some reason I forget to go look there!

 

[3baygarage]

Not that I know of. It's a special part number so not sure if they would have access to that over the phone. I've seen maybe 3 or 4 of the SO version as opposed to dozens of the Proto too. The shape though is too close to not be related.

 

[MR.X]

What Don said. The only thing I would add is that by wartime, the NAF- stock numbers were dwindling, being replaced by federal stock numbers with an "R" prefix, indicating Navy ASO items. Roughly only 25% of the item in the "Blue Book" have an old NAF- stock number. Very equivalent to the Army. We get excited when we find wrenches with so-called Ordnance Dept "TAXI" numbers, but they were falling out of favor by WWII as well.

Speaking of NAF stuff, pulled this Plomb 3/4 X 5/8 dbe today at the flea. paired it in the pics with an unusual single offset NAF Plomb and then with an NAF Blue Point that has an unusual size pairing 11/16 X 1"

 

[MR.X]

Took this off a 5449D years ago and replaced the gear with a standard one to make a speeder. Still have that speeder somewhere.

 

[Outlawmws]

the The 5449-D crank AFAIK was military I have notes that it was during Korea and I have a recollection it was pinned to a piece of artillery or artillery support, but I didn't copy that to my notes, which is irritating as I have one of those...

 

[3baygarage]

Thanks for the photos Mr.X. We need our military sleuths on it.

 

[d42jeep]

I stopped back by a sale that I hit on Easter to see if I had missed anything. Unbelievably, I had missed a decent Plomb spinner and this unusual wrench. It’s a true combination wrench!
-Don

 

[RubiconJK]

the The 5449-D crank AFAIK was military I have notes that it was during Korea and I have a recollection it was pinned to a piece of artillery or artillery support, but I didn't copy that to my notes, which is irritating as I have one of those...

I've spent the last hour and a half on Youtube watching old Howitzer instructional videos and haven't seen our ratchet yet!

 

[twertsy]

Took this off a 5449D years ago and replaced the gear with a standard one to make a speeder. Still have that speeder somewhere.

So you're saying the piece attached at left in your photos is the drive lug from a 5499-D? Just to confirm..........'cuz that's sure what it looks like.

 

[Provincial]

What Don said. The only thing I would add is that by wartime, the NAF- stock numbers were dwindling, being replaced by federal stock numbers with an "R" prefix, indicating Navy ASO items. Roughly only 25% of the item in the "Blue Book" have an old NAF- stock number. Very equivalent to the Army. We get excited when we find wrenches with so-called Ordnance Dept "TAXI" numbers, but they were falling out of favor by WWII as well.

Thanks, Don and Lugz. I had the impression that this was the case, and even searched this thread looking for information. I didn't come up with those posts. It makes me wonder if we should have a sticky with the important Plomb Empire facts linked to this kind of information.