Plomb tool picture thread - show your stuff!

[RubiconJK]

In my very limited experience with Plomb ratchets, the only use of adding "-S" in a model number to denote a variant is with the 1/4-drive version of the WF-8 9/32-drive ratchet. I found one where they stamped an "S" into the handle next to the WF-8, which I interpreted as early production, and I had one with the -S forged in (WF-8-S), ostensibly later production. Clearly not the case here, when whatever the heck it means seems to be something so less significant than that it's not obvious.

Lugz, the later production WF-8-S you mentioned was 1/4" drive vs the 9/32" drive WF-8. So there was a noticeable difference there. Below are a few examples I have. Besides the now identified WF-38-S the only other "S" designation I'm aware of is WF-21-S which is a 3/8" drive female ratchet which is also shown in these pics along with my Sanders cable cutter which I discussed upthread in posts from a couple years ago. So there is also a noticeable difference in it and the standard WF-21. In the case of the 38-S I can't see anything different. The 8-S can be found more often than 21-S, but this is the only 38-S I've seen even though I've seen it mentioned one other time in this thread.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Lugz, the later production WF-8-S you mentioned was 1/4" drive vs the 9/32" drive WF-8. So there was a noticeable difference there.

Yes, that was my point. As opposed to the use of the -S with your 5449, where a variation from that model number that would require a suffix is not only not discernible, but seemingly mystifying.

EDIT: I did not know about the WF-21-S, and, frankly, would not have thought that it being female, which I would not put into the same category as a drive size change, would warrant a "Special" suffix. So thanks. Knowing that, whereas I only had awareness of the WF-8-S precedence prior, actually makes your 5449-S less vexing, in the sense that the variance, whatever it is, is even less conspicuous than that.

 

[RubiconJK]

EDIT: I did not know about the WF-21-S, and, frankly, would not have thought that it being female, which I would not put into the same category as a drive size change, would warrant a "Special" suffix. So thanks. Knowing that, whereas I only had awareness of the WF-8-S precedence prior, actually makes your 5449-S less vexing, in the sense that the variance, whatever it is, is even less conspicuous than that.

If I get some time this weekend, I'll check the internals on the 5449-S and compare to one of the WF-38 ratchets. Otherwise I'm stumped and could be just another of those unsolved Plomb mysteries!

 

[honza.vosalik]

I've been working on completing pebble wrench sets. I've been successful with completing a full combo set, but I still need some DOE and DBEs.

Im specifically looking for following pebble wrenches:

1120, 1122, 1125, 1127, 1133, 1134, 1139, 1147, 1150, 1151, 1155, 1160, 1161, 1162, 1163, 1164

3016, 3018, 3021, 3030, 3033, 3035, 3037, 3041, 3047, 3051, 3055, 3060, 3061, 3065, 3070

Hit me up what you have any spares, thank you.

 

[nailheadmatt]

Well there it is. 9998 and 9998-2 wheel about jr clone.

 

[honza.vosalik]

Well there it is. 9998 and 9998-2 wheel about jr clone.

Beautiful, congratulations!!

 

[RubiconJK]

If I get some time this weekend, I'll check the internals on the 5449-S and compare to one of the WF-38 ratchets.

Took the 5449-S (bottom of pic) and a WF-38 (top of pic) apart and confirmed that the insides are the same and they both needed a good clean and lube which ensued immediately afterwards.

 

[Shelbylex]

Well there it is. 9998 and 9998-2 wheel about jr clone.

BRAVO!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...and confirmed that the insides are the same...

It's a fuggin' headscratcher for sure.

 

[RubiconJK]

It's a fuggin' headscratcher for sure.

After thinking about this more, I began to consider their use of the S designation on WF vs non-WF tools. Because this 5449-S looked like a WF piece I was stuck trying to figure out what was "different", but I think I was going down the wrong rabbit trail. On WF tools the S was added to just a couple individual pieces that were clearly different from their non-S counterparts, but based on a modification. On non-WF tools the S designation was used somewhat more commonly on groups of items such as 8 point sockets and square 4 point sockets. In catalog 19R, they actually detail out repair parts for ratchets and give the springs a designation of 5449S, 4795S etc. The S designation was also used on their "Industrial Line" of DOE wrenches which were introduced as a low cost economy companion alternative to the standard DOE line.

So, while I can't explain why we haven't see more of these particular 5449-S ratchets, I think I can reconcile the use of the S designation as something similar to the Industrial Line DOE case. Perhaps this ratchet was offered for a short time as an economy/alternate offering while they were liquidating surplus WF contract production? I'm going with that theory at least for now.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Solid logic.

 

[d42jeep]

If the part number 5449 was used on the conventional 1/2” drive ratchets and they decided to use that part number on a WF style ratchet they would have had to differentiate the part number in some way. Maybe it just indicates a short 1/2” drive ratchet or style or just something to indIcate the design.
-Don

 

[Outlawmws]

Dang, Fell off the subscription for this therad for a week!

Can't fool you for one minute, Don!

@RagTopTA deserves the creative-credit for suggesting the idea, back in this post. (#12,485 with a little more discussion in nearby posts)



I finally decided it'd be more fun to have a one-of-a-kind spinner than one with a melted handle, so I took his suggestion.



Someone had turned the little Proto Phillips screwdriver into an awl, so I sacrificed it to the cause. The spinner shank was bigger though, so it needed to be drilled out and I also drilled the **** end for the insert.






Don't worry, no nice tools were harmed in the process.



Tom

I have a 3/8" "Spinner" that some PO made up -at least I cannot find another example. It sure has a "Factory made" quality to it but I think a one off. Not Plvmb Empire though, I'm guessing the driver bit was SO from the "N" visible. I really like this driver, and have used it on occasion.:

 

[Smokeshow69]

Well there it is. 9998 and 9998-2 wheel about jr clone.

I don’t even know how to fully classify this tool box. Part work of art/ part craftsmanship. Above all, pure awesomeness! So cool

 

[RubiconJK]

Dang, Fell off the subscription for this therad for a week!





I have a 3/8" "Spinner" that some PO made up -at least I cannot find another example. It sure has a "Factory made" quality to it but I think a one off. Not Plvmb Empire though, I'm guessing the driver bit was SO from the "N" visible. I really like this driver, and have used it on occasion.:

Nice!

 

[RubiconJK]

If the part number 5449 was used on the conventional 1/2” drive ratchets and they decided to use that part number on a WF style ratchet they would have had to differentiate the part number in some way. Maybe it just indicates a short 1/2” drive ratchet or style or just something to indIcate the design.
-Don

Yep, I think we are saying basically the same thing Don. I think they just needed a way to id the WF design with a 5449 p/n.

 

[bmwrd0]

I have a 3/8" "Spinner" that some PO made up -at least I cannot find another example. It sure has a "Factory made" quality to it but I think a one off. Not Plvmb Empire though, I'm guessing the driver bit was SO from the "N" visible. I really like this driver, and have used it on occasion.

3/8" spinners are a regular go-to for me, and I pick them up when I see them. But, my regular user isn't vintage at all, though it looks it:

I do love it!

 

[Outlawmws]

I've not seen any others in the wild, so you must live in the land of 3/8th's spinners!

 

[bmwrd0]

I will start a thread! I just need to figure out were they all are and coral them.

 

[Provincial]

I will start a thread! I just need to figure out were they all are and coral hoard them.

 

[Smokeshow69]

To Bmwrdo’s credit, he did give me an uncommon Proto 3/8 - betr grip spinner handle so I can say he doesn’t totally hoard them

 

[Mintgrun]

USN NAF 110-12 7/8" extra deep socket . I know, ho hum.

I rarely come across Plomb sockets, so I was excited to find this one yesterday. I a little disappointed that it's such a common one. I was hoping it was special. The reason I'm sharing it is for the sake of comparing it to one that is on ePay right now. Why is that one labeled 1110-16 instead of 1110-12?

I have a WF-22A 7" long 3/8" bar that'd fit this socket nicely, if the BBs were spring loaded. (they're not) I suppose I'd have to cut one end off to be able to use it that way.



Apparently someone cut the head off of their sliding T handle and left a couple of marks as evidence.



I think I can cut that end off with a clear conscience.
I have a hard time leaving Plomb tools behind.
Even the buggered-up ones.

EDIT-- I pulled the shaft out of my counterfeit dual-marked home-made spinner and drilled the hole 1/4" deeper, so now the proportions are better. I'd matched the length of another's shaft, but the smaller handle made it look too long. It's better now.

 

[d42jeep]

I rarely come across Plomb sockets, so I was excited to find this one yesterday. I a little disappointed that it's such a common one. I was hoping it was special. The reason I'm sharing it is for the sake of comparing it to one that is on ePay right now. Why is that one labeled 1110-16 instead of 1110-12?

I have a WF-22A 7" long 3/8" bar that'd fit this socket nicely, if the BBs were spring loaded. (they're not) I suppose I'd have to cut one end off to be able to use it that way.

They are both 6 point sockets and look to me like they could be used interchangeably. The -12 7/8” socket is part of a set described as medium duty. The -16 7/8” socket meets “Spec. W-47” whatever that means. Maybe thicker walls or something. There must have been plenty of aircraft with 7/8” spark plugs because that size is the most popular by far.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

I did a side by side comparison today. The 1110-12 sockets are longer than the 1110-16 sockets. The odd one on the left is 3/8” drive and not NAF but it is a 7/8” PWA marked socket.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

“Spec. W-47” whatever that means.

I've seen it before. In something other than the Class 41. Can't remember where. I'll have to look through the rest of the ASO binder.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

@d42jeep

Follow-up on Spec. W-47...

It does not appear anywhere else in the ASO catalog, and I am sure you noticed that in Class 41 (Hand Tools), it only appears with the socket wrenches. As you have already noted, it is not applied to all socket wrenches. Only those on page 23. There is a 1/4-drive set on page 24 that is Spec. 41-W-10 Type I, Class I, and there are 1/4-, 3/8-, and 1/2-drive sets on pages 24 and 25 classified as "light duty" or "medium duty" that are conspicuously not subject to the Spec. W-47, raising the spectre of its notoriety!

You'll be happy to see that I did find it in my copy of Pitman's Aircraft Mechanic's Pocket Manual, but, unfortunately, only on the NAF 1109 (3/8-drive) series drawing, and, just like the ASO Class 41, only as a reference. Still, I think you'll find it VERY helpful.

See Pic 2, and see especially the notation at the lower left.

Between that notation, your hunch about dimensions, and your empirical observation on an OAL difference between 7/8" sockets marked 1110-12 and 7/8" sockets marked 1110-16, I think we can safely extrapolate that the apparently rather unforgiving "dimension limit" or tolerance (+/- 1/32"!) of Spec. W-47 is indeed the source of the differences.

Interestingly, most of the 1109 tools (speeder, ratchet, hinge handle, sliding tee, and all the sockets and swivel sockets) are annotated with the symbol that indicates "standard stock." Only the tommy bar (1109-7) for the hinge handle and the universal joint (1109-9) do not have that symbol, and I am reading that as meaning they have to meet Spec. W-47.

I also think that means that we can interpret all the tools in the "light duty" and "medium duty" sets in Class 41 to be analogous to "standard stock."

Oddly, the Pitman manual is a 3rd edition (1944), which is the same year the Class 41 in my ASO Catalog was published. One would think they would agree, but the manual obviously did not carry the Spec. W-47 through to the 1110 tools. It does have an annotation at the bottom that says the drawing is for stock purposes only, and directs readers to another drawing ("68272 ALT. 4", if you want to go fishing...) for manufacturing details. Why Pitman included the drawing with manufacturing details for the 1109 3/8-drive series and not the 1110 1/2-drive series (and why they included no drawing at all for the 1108 (1/4-drive) series) is a mystery and just our bad luck. But again, I think it's enough to confirm your suspicions. Maybe the 1st (1941) and 2nd (1942) editions would have more or different info.

All,

I intended to find a more generic NAF place to put this instead of the Plomb thread. NAF sockets and tools do show up from other mfgrs (Snap-on, Bonney, etc), but the other threads we have where NAF is the main topic are very specific to machines with USN and NAF tags, the NAF 1156-1 fastener chest I found and restored, the prewar NAF 399xxxx stock numbered tools that preceded the wartime 11XX-** stock numbers, or whatzits. It would lose its salience separated from Don's examples. My apologies for the esoteric mini-deep dive.

 

[d42jeep]

It seems odd to me that both the NAF 1110-12 and the NAF 1110-16 are included in the Medium Duty R41-T-3419-150 set.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

@d42jeep

Follow-up on Spec. W-47...

It does not appear anywhere else in the ASO catalog, and I am sure you noticed that in Class 41 (Hand Tools), it only appears with the socket wrenches. As you have already noted, it is not applied to all socket wrenches. Only those on page 23. There is a 1/4-drive set on page 24 that is Spec. 41-W-10 Type I, Class I, and there are 1/4-, 3/8-, and 1/2-drive sets on pages 24 and 25 classified as "light duty" or "medium duty" that are conspicuously not subject to the Spec. W-47, raising the spectre of its notoriety!

You'll be happy to see that I did find it in my copy of Pitman's Aircraft Mechanic's Pocket Manual, but, unfortunately, only on the NAF 1109 (3/8-drive) series drawing, and, just like the ASO Class 41, only as a reference. Still, I think you'll find it VERY helpful.

See Pic 2, and see especially the notation at the lower left.

Between that notation, your hunch about dimensions, and your empirical observation on an OAL difference between 7/8" sockets marked 1110-12 and 7/8" sockets marked 1110-16, I think we can safely extrapolate that the apparently rather unforgiving "dimension limit" or tolerance (+/- 1/32"!) of Spec. W-47 is indeed the source of the differences.

Interestingly, most of the 1109 tools (speeder, ratchet, hinge handle, sliding tee, and all the sockets and swivel sockets) are annotated with the symbol that indicates "standard stock." Only the tommy bar (1109-7) for the hinge handle and the universal joint (1109-9) do not have that symbol, and I am reading that as meaning they have to meet Spec. W-47.

I also think that means that we can interpret all the tools in the "light duty" and "medium duty" sets in Class 41 to be analogous to "standard stock."

Oddly, the Pitman manual is a 3rd edition (1944), which is the same year the Class 41 in my ASO Catalog was published. One would think they would agree, but the manual obviously did not carry the Spec. W-47 through to the 1110 tools. It does have an annotation at the bottom that says the drawing is for stock purposes only, and directs readers to another drawing ("68272 ALT. 4", if you want to go fishing...) for manufacturing details. Why Pitman included the drawing with manufacturing details for the 1109 3/8-drive series and not the 1110 1/2-drive series (and why they included no drawing at all for the 1108 (1/4-drive) series) is a mystery and just our bad luck. But again, I think it's enough to confirm your suspicions. Maybe the 1st (1941) and 2nd (1942) editions would have more or different info.

All,

I intended to find a more generic NAF place to put this instead of the Plomb thread. NAF sockets and tools do show up from other mfgrs (Snap-on, Bonney, etc), but the other threads we have where NAF is the main topic are very specific to machines with USN and NAF tags, the NAF 1156-1 fastener chest I found and restored, the prewar NAF 399xxxx stock numbered tools that preceded the wartime 11XX-** stock numbers, or whatzits. It would lose its salience separated from Don's examples. My apologies for the esoteric mini-deep dive.

I like that picture 2 shows some of the unique spark plug sockets we’ve found in various brands including the sleeved sockets.


I hope it’s okay that these Snap-on examples have snuck into the Plomb thread.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It seems odd to me that both the NAF 1110-12 and the NAF 1110-16 are included in the Medium Duty R41-T-3419-150 set.

For sure. There's something weird going with how they non-sequential way they assigned numbers to begin with, and maybe it has to do with that somehow.

 

[Provincial]

Aircraft spark plugs were not standardized until WWII brought the government deeply into the market. Up to that point, manufacturers were experimenting with various types of electrode insulation and radio shielding was evolving at a rapid rate. The 18MM thread became the dominant size for installation, mostly because of the choice of engine manufacturers. The 14MM thread remained in use for some smaller engines, but Franklin was the only hold-out for above 100 horsepower.

The hex size for the base, meaning the installation/removal gripping point, was not standardized pre-WWII. It was determined by the design of the spark plug, with "unshielded" (exposed insulator) plugs generally using a smaller base hex, and radio shielded plugs using larger base hex sizes. The diameter of the shielded barrel kept getting larger, and by the end of the war required at least a 7/8" hex to enable the socket to clear the shielded barrel.

The thread size of the shielded barrel also got larger, until the largest options required 3/4" and 7/8" hex nuts, with 7/8" being used on high-altitude applications. This is because the thinner air at high altitudes provided allowed spark to jump easier, requiring greater gaps between conducting parts prior to the electrodes.

 

[Smokeshow69]

I like that picture 2 shows some of the unique spark plug sockets we’ve found in various brands including the sleeved sockets.


I hope it’s okay that these Snap-on examples have snuck into the Plomb thread.
-Don

I think it’s totally fine but maybe others would disagree. It directly relates to the topic and helps provide other perspectives to the discussion!

 

[RubiconJK]

It seems odd to me that both the NAF 1110-12 and the NAF 1110-16 are included in the Medium Duty R41-T-3419-150 set.
-Don

I don't get that either, but if I understand Lugz findings and your thoughts on dims then perhaps it was easy to include them since the -16 with the W-47 spec would exceed the medium duty rating?

My apologies for the esoteric mini-deep dive.

Glad you did it. We (or someone) are going to have this question again sometime.

 

[RubiconJK]

Here's another one in the category of "just when I thought I'd seen it all" and "you can never have too many variations of the same ratchet". Yet another version I found of the WF-38 1/2" drive Plomb ratchet. This one has no text on the handle and just the "Plomb" brand on the drive cover. No p/n's, just the brand. This time I limited the group photos to just the different versions I have of just this specific style.

 

[Vintagenut]

Plomb starter wrench.

 

[Ricky Joe]

Plomb starter wrench.

Specifically for flathead Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge/DeSoto.

 

[four.cycle]

completely off-topic, but to underscore Provincial's comments above -
one picture says a thousand words:

 

[RubiconJK]

Three of the mysterious S.R. arrivals for today. 1/2" and 9/16" standard and a 13/16" deep.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

One Friday afternoon About 5:30, old Alphonse was sitting in back of the shop with his foreman and having already downed a few stiff ones, he says "We need to troll that punk Fayette." So they made this.

Vintage Plomb Los Angeles A branded hand axe | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Vintage Plomb Los Angeles A branded hand axe at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Anyone got a better story? Is the Plomb drama hyped enough there are counterfeits? Cool piece though.

Not mine, and I didn't bid

 

[Outlawmws]

Anyone have a tool catalog showing it?

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

I don't think I've seen any A Plomb catalog