Plumbing to Garage

[desert4wd]

Question: In the photo, there is a reduction in the pipe size from 1-1/4" to 1" then back to 1-1/4". Doe's this perform a function such as increasing pressure? Closer to the house, where the "House In" line goes, it reduces in size again. Anyways, what's more important, pressure or volume? Should I leave it or return it all to 1-1/4"?

Ok, the full story. Prior to moving in, the land was partitioned, with the old well located on the other property. A portion of the old line is still on my property and has a "T" going down to the garage and other areas. Since the line was cut off from the new well and the old well, there hasn't been any water available in those areas- garage etc. I've capped the other end of the line- the old line in. I'm going to reconnect to the new source and add a valve to control the garage etc. Plus I'm going to install another Tee and valve and cap that for future use. ie. spigot or irrigation. Thanks for your help and hope I spelled this out ok.- Doug

 

[Printer Mike]

 

[desert4wd]

... yes, therefore the question.
By the way, try not to think about the second part- it's irrelevant for the most part, except to say that it ties in with getting water down to the garage, which I'd really, really like to have.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

For a single residence, the one inch line will provide all of the water you could possibly want. Where I live, we have a private water system, and people being cheap, put one tap at the street and ran a single one inch line from the street down the property line between two houses, where it T's and goes to the two houses. Thats two houses on a single one inch line that runs as much as 300 to 400 ft from the main at the street. Only one resident complains about water pressure and his neighbor that shares his line doesn't have a problem..... he is a well know complainer, so we just ignore him.

Charles

 

[desert4wd]

Thanks for the insight. I had 3/4" pipe at my previous house which was fine. With this situation, I don't think the diameter of the pipe is as important as why are there two different diameters? (a reduction) It's just a flag that got my attention. Is there a practical reason for the installers to have done this? Is it a method of jacking up the pressure perhaps and would altering it reduce it? Thanks a bunch- Doug

 

[Nealcrenshaw]

"If it ain't broke don't fixit"

 

[Printer Mike]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the plumber didn't have the right hardware and just used what he had to make it work. That's the only reason I can think of.....

 

[desert4wd]

Thanks Mike. That thought had crossed my mind, speculation as it is. The entire household and irrigation system are moderately deficient and adjusting the well pressure and pump duration doesn't seem to make any difference. It's only natural that the deviance in construction has piqued my interest, particularly since I've already got the hole dug and will be working on it anyways.

 

[Wardster]

That would be cheap to convert it all to 1 1/4", especially with the hole open. You may as well have the volume available at the house in the event you need it.

-Wardster

 

[kbs2244]

I wwoud say both mike and Charles are right.
The restriction will reduce flow (it will not effect pressure) but not to the point that you will notice.
Leave it as is.

 

[desert4wd]

Thanks for the good advice. Sorry if the question seemed marginal in importance, but stuff like this seems to like to find and annoy me- lol. If nothing else, the main task of connecting the water down to the garage/shop will be nothing short of completely satisfying. The results are a sink, probably a bathroom (still working on the logistics to the septic), an outside spigot and sprinklers for the lower part of the driveway.
- Doug

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Flow is reduced with the length of the pipe and the number of turns or fittings in it. We have one situation in my neighborhood where we have a sand filter on one of the wells to remove iron. The pipe coming out of the tanks and going into the street was two inch, but the filter installers interrupted that pipe to install the filter, with all one inch pipe. None of this one inch is very long, no more than a couple or three feet, and it doesn't have a measurable difference on the flow in the system, which feeds ten houses. Yes, you read right, ten houses fed by a line that is two inch necking down to one inch near the end of the line, but with this one inch piece or two in the well house at the filter, and it doesn't make any difference. I have an electronic pressure recording device and if the restriction caused a flow problem, the result would be loss of pressure, and I don't see that, even though I'm on the far end of the line. My data recorder records every 15 seconds and has enough memory to go for about five days +. I lose a little bit of the highs and lows of the system pressure at 15 secs. but not enough to notice on the graph. At five second intervals, I get about two days recording time, and can see someone flush the commode down the street in the middle of the nite, by the fluctuation in the graph. This well has four 115 gal bladder tanks, with a drawdown of about 40 gals or so, each (drawdown is the amount of water that you get out of the tank from peak pressure when the pump shuts off, to the low pressure when the pump kicks back in) With ten houses, the pump cycles about 27 times in the average day. The other wells have large 1500 gal tanks and one of them has such low water usage on occasion that the pump will go six or eight hours between cycles with nine houses on that well.

Something to remember, each 90 degree elbow in a pipe is equal to about ten feet more pipe in length, and additional length causes lost flow due to friction (just like the length of a wire causes loss of current flow when it is too long). So keep the bends to a minimum or step them up a size.

Charles

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I wwoud say both mike and Charles are right.
The restriction will reduce flow (it will not effect pressure) but not to the point that you will notice.
Leave it as is.

The necking down will not cause a pressure loss when there is no water flowing (static) (Hydraulics 101, the pressure will equalize, size of the pipe doesn't matter when static) but open a faucet at the end, and demand some water, and if you have a real restriction, say a 1/4 fitting in a 1 inch line a half mile long, then you won't have the flow you need to supply the faucet and the pressure will drop off. Good static pressure, followed by a major loss of pressure when the water is flowing is how you determine you have a restriction.

In the average house, even if you start the dish washer, the clothes washer and then run and jump in the shower, you are not consuming over about 6 or 7 gals a minute of water, out of a pipe that will flow four or five times that amount (unless of course, the pipe is VERY long, which causes friction losses)

Basically, its differential pressure, the difference between the pressure at the source (a known given, especially if a well) and the pressure at the end. Commonly called "Delta P". The greater the difference, the greater the restriction.

Charles

 

[desert4wd]

Thanks for the logic Charles. The only things I need to add are a tee and a valve. The tee to hook all three pipes together and the valve to control the line going to the garage/shop.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Thanks for the logic Charles. The only things I need to add are a tee and a valve. The tee to hook all three pipes together and the valve to control the line going to the garage/shop.

That sounds like the thing to do. If the old well line is cut off further up (at the property line) and capped, your T or whatever fittings it takes to make the lines T together, and the shutoff valve will work just fine.

Is this a deep well? Where is the pressure tank? at the well head? the house?

Just make sure there are no valves that can accidentally be closed between the well head, the pressure switch and the pressure tank. These items always need to be plumbed together at all times, Shutting off, say, the tank, will drive the pump crazy, cycling on and off, on and off, etc very rapidly.

Charles

 

[desert4wd]

I'm not that experienced with the well/pump/tank and stuff. The pump house is maybe 125' down hill from the house - I don't remember the depth off hand, but its all right there, the tank, sub-panel etc. I'm thinkin' that shutting off the electrical and valve down there should suffice. I've been dragging my feet a little and will do it when everyone's gone from the house in the next few days.

 

[desert4wd]

To close this thread, everything worked out fine. Ran 1-1/4 inch for all the replaced line and connections. Water is working well in the house and now the garage too, yahoo! No noticeable change in pressure. Sure was a pain to do but I guess that was half the fun. I'd still rather do that than replace toilet seals-