Above 1200 Sq/FT PNW off grid compound

[sjvicker]

Hello,

About 5 years ago my wife and I purchased a timber property in the PNW with the intention of slowly building it out as our retirement compound and paying cash as we went. We started off with a plan to build a modest barndominimum and over time expanded into a plan to build 3 pole structures that include a house, shop and shed.

5 years in and we finally have some garage journal worthy progress!

 

[sjvicker]

The first few years were spent camping on the property, exploring and figuring out where we wanted to build the compound. The entire place is on a hill side so we we're expecting to do quite a bit of grading. Once we had a place we had a contractor come out and clear for a few days so we could verify this is where we wanted to build.

The tree stump in these photos is absolutely massive and the trunk coming out of it spirals around the tree leaving no safe spot to cut from. We decided to leave this for a future removal project.

 

[sjvicker]

After the 2021 grading we took some time planning how we could manage our build on the hillside and ultimately decided this was the spot for us as its in the middle of the property and in an area that isn't too steep. With a decision made it was time to call our contractor back and go bigger on the grading in 2022. We agreed on a T&M contract for one weeks worth of clearing and grading.

This left us with a pad that will fit the 16x24 shed and most of the 58x72 shop. The shed will be built first and from there we'll dial in the shop location exactly and plan our 2023 grading accordingly to account for the shop, a buffer area, hillside drainage and a fire break.

 

[sjvicker]

Earlier this year we also had our well drilled. It was a bit anxiety inducing to say the least since this is one of those costs you can't really budget and plan for as closely as building materials or grading. The two closest wells to the property are neighbors with one being 75' and the other being 400'. We came in at 200' with a static depth of 26'

Our original plan was not to be completely off grid and since there is power poles run to the closest neighbor, connecting to electricity was the first option. A call to the power company resulted in an estimate of $40k to run poles to our driveway and there are no options to share the cost or spread it out over time. We currently have solar at the camp site and on our trailer and love it so that combined with a break even on day 1 made it an easy decision to plan for fully off-grid.

I was researching traditional well pumps and found that they have a huge power draw on start up and somewhere along the way I found RPS solar pumps. After a bunch more research we settled on a plan to use a solar well pump to feed a cistern at the top of the property and then gravity feed our camp area and our build site from the cistern. We were fortunate that we have enough elevation gain to feed camp good-enough and I haven't checked yet but we should be right around 60psi for the house. A 1500gal cistern from Home Depot, 900' of 1-1/4" poly pipe, 9 hrs of trenching through clay and countless trips for that "one" fitting I forgot and we have a temporary water system. I will eventually need to add a float to shut off the pump once the cistern is full, mount the panels and controller properly and redo the inlet/outlet of the cistern but for now its good enough.

Lessons learned:

1. the trenchers is fast through everything except wet clay. I should have waited another month or two to do the trench and I would have saved about 5hrs of work.
2. having a good road for the well driller in place meant we were bumped to the top of their list in the spring when it was too wet to drill anyone elses well.
3. the poly pipe will expand and contract as it heats up in the sunlight. At the joints I initially started with really nice compression fittings but found they leaked after the contraction. Standard plastic barbs and stainless steel hose clamps are what I'm using from here on out
4. with some creativity and a whole lot of ratchet straps you can fit a 1500gal cistern on a smaller uhaul trailer
5. I have one pipe running up the hill that water will flow 2 directions in. I initially planned a check valve at the bottom of the cistern to force water to fill from the top which would then hit a float valve and shut off the solar controller through a pressure control switch at the pump. The check valve required just enough pressure behind it that it wouldn't flow unless over 600gallons of water was in the cistern and giving up 600gal of capacity wasn't acceptable to me. RPS makes a solar powered check valve that can transmit a wireless signal to the controller to shut off the pump. I'll be trying this next.

 

[Chrisb62]

Wow...... this looks very interesting, will keep my eye on this.

 

[BORING HOP YARD]

Looking good!
Nice work.

 

[sjvicker]

Permitting and getting materials from the kit supplier slowed down the build on the first structure just enough that the rains have come and we have to fight through them to get it dried in. This building will be a 16x24 that will house our batteries, charge controller, inverter, water filtration and be a dedicated gym. For now it will serve as a dry spot to store materials while we build the shop

 

[ChefRex]

Interesting, watching, best of luck to you and yours!

 

[sjvicker]

The real reason to build the small building first was to learn and be more confident when it came time to build the shop and house. Lessons learned from the shed build so far are as follows.

1. If you have to get a permit, plan for it to take 2x longer than any estimates you're given.
2. Start with a level pad. We drop about 18" from corner to corner so by the time we drilled the holes and sunk the poles we lost some roof height. We could have ordered new poles but at the end of the day the building will look better with less height so we made the call and moved onward
3. Nothing has been overly difficult but it all takes 2x the time I think it will. If the building was any bigger I'd want a scissor lift.
4. We marked the purlin locations on the trusses while they were on the ground. This was good but we should have taken it a bit further and put all of the hurricane clips and any other things we possibly could have while they were on the ground. In the future, with a larger building we'll build the truss assemblies on the ground with the purlin blocking and fly it all in to place as an assembly.
5. The M18 circular saw and framing nailer are the way to go. I went into this thinking I needed a generator, miter saw and air nailer and really none of them were necessary.
6. I have my shop engineering complete and will be prepping all of the truss blocking ahead of time for that build. It seems small but that's easy week night stuff and then I dont have to think about it when I'm on site.
7. Find a kit supplier who's familiar with the quality of building you want to build. My supplier is regarded as one of the best in the area but he more typically provides simpler ag buildings. I could tell fully sheathing the building, standing seam and enclosed soffit's put him out of his comfort zone.
8. I went with a 3/12 pitch because I knew I'd feel more comfortable up there than a 4/12. It doesn't look as good as 4/12 but if I ever have to walk it when I'm elderly I think I'll be happy I went with 3/12.
9. all the help and advice from friends and family was much appreciated!

Next up is to finish the standing seam (snap lock) on the roof.

 

[Toolfool]

Looks like a great project. Where in SW Washington ?

 

[sjvicker]

Looks like a great project. Where in SW Washington ?

South of Olympia and West of the Cascades.

 

[billconner]

Your well is lower, near the buildings, and you pump up the hill to fill cistern? No worries about cistern freezing? I assume pipe is below frost? Approx evevation of cistern above house? I thought 50 to 60' was necessary for enough pressure.

Thanks for sharing this! Neat project.

 

[Adaylate]

Sj,
Toolfool moved from the PNW to FL. and I am just down the road from you in the Toledo area.
You have beautiful piece of property and an interesting build!
Good luck with your build.

 

[sjvicker]

Your well is lower, near the buildings, and you pump up the hill to fill cistern? No worries about cistern freezing? I assume pipe is below frost? Approx evevation of cistern above house? I thought 50 to 60' was necessary for enough pressure.

Thanks for sharing this! Neat project.

Yeah, that's correct. The well head and pump solar is at the build site and I pump up hill to the cistern. I'm not worried about the cistern freezing since we rarely drop below freezing and only have a 12" frost depth here, but I do have concerns about the PVC inlet and outlet pipes freezing. Since I want to replumb that area I'm going to just let it ride this winter and see what happens.

I have 40psi measured at a hydrant that's at the same elevation as the build site so with some losses I probably have 95-100' of elevation change.

So far I'm pretty happy with how the system is working but I think when I'm drawing on it full time I'll probably need to add another 1500gal capacity and another 4 solar panels to get through the grey winter days.

 

[sjvicker]

Sj,
Toolfool moved from the PNW to FL. and I am just down the road from you in the Toledo area.
You have beautiful piece of property and an interesting build!
Good luck with your build.

Thanks! I'm actually just across "the road" from you.

I did a river float on the Cowlitz last year from the hatchery to downtown Toledo the day they opened up the dam. It was an experience for sure.

 

[billconner]

Yeah, that's correct. The well head and pump solar is at the build site and I pump up hill to the cistern. I'm not worried about the cistern freezing since we rarely drop below freezing and only have a 12" frost depth here, but I do have concerns about the PVC inlet and outlet pipes freezing. Since I want to replumb that area I'm going to just let it ride this winter and see what happens.

I have 40psi measured at a hydrant that's at the same elevation as the build site so with some losses I probably have 95-100' of elevation change.

So far I'm pretty happy with how the system is working but I think when I'm drawing on it full time I'll probably need to add another 1500gal capacity and another 4 solar panels to get through the grey winter days.

thank you!

 

[Adaylate]

SJ,
I' m a mile from the Mission boat launch. Last summer my brother, sister and a cousin floated from there to downtown Toledo....I ran shuttle. They had a great trip!
I'm doing the foundation work on my car barn now. Hope to have concrete placed soon. It will be be about half the size of your shop.

 

[sjvicker]

The shop engineering was completed a few weeks ago. It's a pretty standard pole structure with a lean-to except I decided to build on a stem wall with drill set anchors and had the columns specified as nail laminated 2x6 and 2x8.

I've probably been watching too many RR buildings YouTube videos but that's what inspired me to look more into a stem wall pole building style of construction. I went this route primarily because I didn't want to be wrestling 25'+ poles and fighting them to get the building square. Second to that is for spark and water control inside.

The goal next year is to finish grading and get the stem wall in and then dry in the structure in 2024.

 

[jarhead]

going to be nice

 

[billconner]

What are your drawings showing if anything for lateral bracing since you are using drill set anchors instead of embedding poles.

 

[sjvicker]

What are your drawings showing if anything for lateral bracing since you are using drill set anchors instead of embedding poles.

There isn't anything in particular (45deg girts, knee braces, etc) for lateral. I did have to step down to 8' post spacing where 12' is the standard in this area. I'm also sheeting the roof in OSB before installing standing seam metal. I've read a bunch of threads on here regarding it in the past and I know this might seem strange but I'm not really too worried about it.

2 out of 4 sides of the building will be blocked from wind by either trees (Rear Elevation) or cut hillside (Left Elevation), I'll likely finish the inside with OSB or rough sawn boards at a 45deg angle and I'll have a mezzanine along most of the right elevation.

 

[TiFJ]

Beautiful site and thanks for including so much detail. I'm currently in the design phase for a garage-suite on Vancouver Island and I am also thinking about going off-grid and dealing with significant slopes (about 180ft drop over 500ft from top to bottom). Will be watching to see how this goes. Good luck!

 

[sjvicker]

Beautiful site and thanks for including so much detail. I'm currently in the design phase for a garage-suite on Vancouver Island and I am also thinking about going off-grid and dealing with significant slopes (about 180ft drop over 500ft from top to bottom). Will be watching to see how this goes. Good luck!

That's quite the slope you have to work around. Are you planning to cut in and build your foundation into the hillside?

 

[sjvicker]

Rain and other weekend commitments have slowed progress over the past few weeks. The roof metal panels are on and it generally went well but I had one significant issue. My kit supplier had the panels run slightly too long and I didn't find out until I was starting the second side so it left me with the dilemma to either delay while waiting for new panels or to make the best of it. I decided to make the best of it.

On the first side everything installed fine but due to the panels being slightly too long the second side doesn't have full 3/4"ish engagement where the panel folds over the drip edge.

 

[sjvicker]

Aside from building the property I've been restoring a 1990 Toyota Supra. The 2022 project was a complete rear diff rebuild with 4.11 gears. Next winter's project is to restore the rear subframe. Here's the before and after

 

[four.cycle]

If those are your Doug firs in the background I sure hope you'll consider thinning them out.

Good luck with your project down there.

 

[sjvicker]

Those small ones behind the shed are going to be removed during the next round of grading.

The current plan is to buy a saw mill next spring and start thinning the rest.

 

[TiFJ]

That's quite the slope you have to work around. Are you planning to cut in and build your foundation into the hillside?

There are portions of the property that are significantly steeper (practically cliff) than others but there is a relatively flat spot for the garage and eventual house. The garage spot will definitely need some cutting to get it level - based on the countour map I have, it looks like one side is about 12ft higher than the other.

 

[sjvicker]

Weather has been delaying the build so in the meantime I built a bench with some rough sawn oak and have started building a few 2"x72" belt grinders off of some plans I bought on Etsy.

If the weather holds I might be able to get back to work on the shed this Sunday.

 

[sjvicker]

Kind of hard to believe 2 months have passed already. Since the last update we were able to get on the fascia trim, gable fascia/roof cap pieces, finish framing and get most of the OSB on the walls.

I know most people wouldn't put OSB on a pole building but for little additional cost it should add quite a bit of rigidity to the building. I'm also not sure if I want to insulate with Rockwool or closed cell spray foam and wanted to make sure it had a good base to spray against if I went the closed cell route.

Lessons learned:
1. buy a few extra pieces of metal in case a mistake is made. I carried a piece wrong and it creased in the middle and didn't have my screws marked correctly on another piece.
2. a spring loaded center punch is a great way to mark for screws, just make sure the metal is resting on wood before you mark it.
3. Cutting and folding metal is tricky and no matter how many RR buildings videos you watch it is not easy doing it yourself.
4. I have some waves in my fascia metal. It's not excessive but I'm not sure how to fix that in the future. I think being black it also shows it more than a lighter color would.
5. I'm not sure I'm a fan of bookshelf girts. If I could do it again I would consider 8' post spacing and face girts. There would have been a couple more trusses and posts but it would have been a lot quicker to frame. The shop will be standard girts.
6. I'm more out of plumb than I'd like on my walls and this shows with how I need to shim the sides of the roll up garage door and when the OSB went on. Its not so much that it will be noticeable when the building is done but I'll need to pay close attention to the metal install to make sure its plumb on install and doesn't follow the wall edge.
7. I'm using a Milwaukee framing nailer and it doesn't like the nails I've used for the OSB. About 1 in 4 will not sink all the way or will sink slightly and bend. I need to find a more compatible nail for the next projects. I should have figured this out before buying a large box.
8. level the ground better before building. So much frustration and time could have been saved if I could have simply set an A-frame ladder down and walked up



7

 

[billconner]

Thank you for the candid lessons learned!

 

[jabberwoki]

#2 on thinning that rear forest out.

 

[sjvicker]

#2 on thinning that rear forest out.

When I have the shed floor poured I'm going to have a slab added behind it for a saw mill so those trees will probably be 30' off the back of the shed when everything is done.

 

[Idle Serge]

Hello Neighbor! Got some nice projects on your hands...look forward to updates!

 

[sjvicker]

Another month of progress and nothing too exciting to show. I'm not really in a hurry and just plugging away at it when there is nice weather on the weekends. OSB is done, wrap is mostly done, door and windows are installed. Next up is to finish the wrap and start on the metal wainscot.

We've also solidified our 2023 project goals.

1. Finish shop grading
2. plumb from cistern to shed
3. permanent location for well solar panels - pole mount or mounted on shed.
4. Shed concrete

If that all goes well and the finances are looking good we really want to get the shop foundation in this year. This would let me do the drill set anchors and nail-lam all of the posts over next winter.

 

[sjvicker]

We've been making some progress over the past few months. The siding is all on and we had our grading contractor come out and remove about 40' of trees behind the shed. I didn't' get a good photo of it but he also made a nice pad behind the shed for a sawmill.

We have a verbal quote for the subgrade and slab and will be scheduling that as soon as we have a contract to review and sign.

 

[sjvicker]

I took some time off the project and now its full speed ahead with the goal to get the final permit signoff in 2 weeks.

The soffit metal has been a challenge and I'm not 100% happy with it. Most of the youtubers I've seen have a soffit that goes on first and then is capped by the fascia metal and wall upper J. The instructions for this metal have it installed in a way that you have to fish it up and into place and then screw it in. This causes some wave to the receiving channel on the building and there's some gaps in the corrugation that are the perfect sizes for wasps and bees to get into. Next time I'll put the soffit on first and staple the flange up to the bottom of the fascia board and to a ledger on the wall. It actually all looks better in person than in the photo. Live and learn.

Also, I had a contractor come in and pour the floor. It's a bit wavy on the back end where they raked it into place but all things considered I think they did a solid job on it and their price was right given that they didn't blow up the quote with a pump.

At this point I have some more soffit metal to finish and a garage door to install and its time to sign off the permit. The doors will get painted after the permit is finalized.

 

[billconner]

Great progress! Congrats.

 

[dmittz]

Its certainly coming along, thanks for the update.

 

[Adaylate]

SJ,
It's looking great!
Hope to get mine dried in before the monsoons hit.