Pole Garage...Do's and don't

[Certified Drunk]

I'm having Permabilt come over this Saturday to quote me on a pole garage..
I looked at a stick build, but the price is 2.5x more.
If you had to do it again, what would you change?
Anything I should avoid?

My Idea was..
24' x 30'
8" lap siding
3 tap roof to match the house.
6" concrete floor
16' x 8' roll up door
36" man door

 

[Radix2]

If it is 2.5x the cost for stick built, you are not comparing similar specs.

At that difference it sounds like you are comparing a bare metal box to a finished or ready to finish building. A basic polebarn will need quite a bit added to take lap siding, 3-tabs...what interior finish?

So anyway, the don't is...don't be fooled by what you want vs something to keep the rain off a tractor.

 

[larry_g]

If you want a ceiling and finished inside then make sure that your trusses are rated for the ceiling load, most are not.

Do not get your OH door to close to the end wall as it prevents you from having storage along that wall if you have a vehicle in there.

If you want a mezzanine plan it into the framework now.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[astroracer]

Like Larry said, keep the OH door at least 4' off the INSIDE of the nearest wall. 6' is better. Centered in your 30' wall will give you about 6 1/2' on either side of the door.
Remember... Your building is 24' x 30' to the OUTSIDE of the framing. You will lose a foot on the inside due to the wall thickness.
If you put that OH door in the long side you will be pretty cramped for working room with a vehicle parked in there. 23' doesn't leave much room for benches or storage in front of a vehicle. 26' would be better, 28' would be best.
If you specify 32' residential trusses they will give you a 1' overhang AND they are rated to carry the ceiling load.
The lap siding will require the building be enclosed with OSB. If your girts are on 2' centers this will not be an issue.
After the OSB is up have the building wrapped with Tyvek or a similar house wrap. You will be surprised how much it will cut down on the drafts.
It all depends on what you will be doing, working or storage both need room around vehicles.
Mark

 

[n20junkie]

I believe that like most guys have said, all expenses acounted for to make a pole barn look like a stick build externally, have proper construction for insulation and interior walls, and the correct trusses for a ceiling, your getting pretty close to a stick build. Add in the extra space the attic trusses can add (or utility space for air compressors, HVAC, water heaters...... and the stick build is looking pretty damn nice.

The pole barn that is to be uses as a work shop (vs am agriculture storage building) is all about avoiding a poured foundation, thats it. The floor is the same cost, and the exterior is slightly cheaper if you are ok with a tin exterior. If you can afford the proper foundation for your area, go stick build IMHO.

 

[Disturbed]

I have had two pole buildings, one I built, the second was already built when I moved, same problem with both, they used standard trusses. My opinion, NEVER use standard trusses, you are wasting too much space. Go with scissor truss for a higher ceiling if you are going got 10' wall so you can get a lift in if you choose to do it in the future. If you don't need the height put attic trusses in, you gain lots of storage.

 

[espolebarn]

8ft door is way too short for toys (rv boat camper) my pole barn is 24x40x16 with a 14ft tall door. It is cheap to go up in height and I love having the interior height, swing a ladder or 2x4 around without hitting anything my door is 16w14high. for a door that size you have to have a commercial lifter, I chose to open it myself (hand power) saved me 1000 bucks, and it is easy to pull open.

Things I did that I like:
floor drain
pre-piped it for a sink and hose reel, use this all the time
woodstove and propane heat
electrical outlets on every pole
Ice machine tied into the drain
the poles they used are glued and laminated, the bases in contact with the ground are treated and also wrapped in special plastic.
4' concrete pad on outside of personnel door and in front of garage door (it wraps around)
built a lean too because i ran out of room inside!

Things I wish i did:
GO BIGGER
plumb for a toilet

remember to plan for insulation, it makes the barn. I did tyvek ceiling like they do in chicken houses, it worked well.

 

[astroracer]

One aspect with a pole style build is, you can hold off on finishing the inside until you can afford it. Buy the studs, insulation and drywall and do it one wall at a time if cash is tight. With a stick built you pay for everything up front, structure wise, whether you want it or not.
Mark

 

[Outnumbered76]

Everything they said and
I have eve vents, wish I would have done a ridge vent also when the building went up. Don't waste money on decorative cupolas.
Do put up snow birds over doors that exit from the sides of the building
Don't pay the extra for a different color on the under side of the steel
Do get insulated doors right from the start
Do check that the concrete where the overhead door seals is level - no hills or valleys

 

[RPH]

Pay attention to where the snow and ice slides off the roof. Don't want to shovel to get in and out every time it snows.

 

[marty_p]

There have been some very great suggestions presented.

Also, if possible future plans include a lift, prepare footing space beneath the slab accordingly...

 

[Voi]

My Idea was..
24' x 30'
8" lap siding
3 tap roof to match the house.
6" concrete floor
16' x 8' roll up door
36" man door

I agree with the suggestion from others that if you want lap siding and shingled roof that a foundation/stick build might be better.

But I will add that there have been a couple of build threads on GJ using a hybrid approach. Start with poles in the ground and a skirt board but then the poles are cut off and a stick build is done on from there up. I'll edit my post with a thread link if I can find it.

If you go forward with a traditional pole build and want the interior finished too then have the bid done with bookshelf (aka commercial) girts.

[EDIT] Here's the link:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=196027

 

[Certified Drunk]

Thanks

 

[TractorJeff]

I was playing with Menards Garage and Pole Barn Calculator Design websites. A 30 by 40 by 10 with all the same insulated door/window layouts and ceiling with insulation came out to be about $600 difference. Pole Building would have 8 foot spacing on posts to allow for wall covering at a later date.
As much as I would like stick built for another $2k I can go 14 foot walls and 12 foot insulated doors with identical layout.
Then pour concrete after construction, If I go stick built, then I would pour a floating slab which would raise the concrete cost due to thickened edges.

 

[Fyrme]

If you go with a low ceiling, have your trusses build as attic trusses. That way you can deck it and have additional room for storage. If you don't want storage, then go with scissor trusses, even if you never plan on a lift. Oh, and pour your slab BEFORE the siding goes on.

 

[rburke65]

I did a pole barn foundation and then stick built, studded shop. I did poles every 4' rather than 8'. I know it all costs but not something you can do later. Build it high so you don't have water coming into your garage/shop. You don't HAVE to concrete the floor BEFORE the siding.....unless I'm missing something! There are lots of things to plan BEFORE you break ground. Keep reading.

 

[Fyrme]

I did a pole barn foundation and then stick built, studded shop. I did poles every 4' rather than 8'. I know it all costs but not something you can do later. Build it high so you don't have water coming into your garage/shop. You don't HAVE to concrete the floor BEFORE the siding.....unless I'm missing something! There are lots of things to plan BEFORE you break ground. Keep reading.

You are correct, you don't HAVE to, but it is easier for your concrete contractor and he will likely charge you less. I learned the hard way.

 

[sanddan]

One caution with metal roofed buildings. My pole barn shop is now about 23 years old and the rubber seals on the screws are starting to fail. It is a huge job to replace the screws with new but I am getting leaks here and there. Very bad when you have equipment like lathes and mills, lots of bare metal that would rust in a heart beat if water hit them.

 

[astroracer]

One caution with metal roofed buildings. My pole barn shop is now about 23 years old and the rubber seals on the screws are starting to fail. It is a huge job to replace the screws with new but I am getting leaks here and there. Very bad when you have equipment like lathes and mills, lots of bare metal that would rust in a heart beat if water hit them.

He specified 3 tab shingles in his Original post. Moot point though as he will be replacing shingles in 20 years anyway...
Mark

 

[sanddan]

One of the best things I did when I built my shop was to run the electrical under the concrete. After the shell was up and the floor was leveled using 3/4" minus, we ran plastic pipe buried in the gravel to all of the major locations for electrical. I think we covered 80-90% of the wiring runs that way. After the concrete was done the wires were run and hooked up. I also ran pipe to areas I thought might be needed later down the road, one run remained empty for 18 years until I installed my 2 post lift. It does take planning and things change over the years but in my case I was always adding more circuits. Ended up filling a 200 amp panel and still had to use some thin breakers to get it all to fit.

 

[sanddan]

He specified 3 tab shingles in his Original post. Moot point though as he will be replacing shingles in 20 years anyway...
Mark

Good point.

The worst thing about getting old is your stuff gets old too.

I remember putting up my first 30yr roof, I didn't think I'd ever have to do that again. HA!

 

[rburke65]

Place the floor after its built and the finishers aren't sweating their butts off, sun isn't beating down on the Concrete, don't have to worry about rain, it dries slower, and the roof will help in slowing the cure.....IMO

 

[n20junkie]

My concrete guys prefered to do the floor before the walls went up. It allowed them to access the entire pad from the perimeter for finish work.

Plus it allowed them to use a pumper to move the product fast.

 

[Fyrme]

One caution with metal roofed buildings. My pole barn shop is now about 23 years old and the rubber seals on the screws are starting to fail. It is a huge job to replace the screws with new but I am getting leaks here and there. Very bad when you have equipment like lathes and mills, lots of bare metal that would rust in a heart beat if water hit them.

I'd much rather replace a couple hundred screws after 20yrs than an entire shingled roof, or even write the check to hire it done.

One of the best things I did when I built my shop was to run the electrical under the concrete. After the shell was up and the floor was leveled using 3/4" minus, we ran plastic pipe buried in the gravel to all of the major locations for electrical. I think we covered 80-90% of the wiring runs that way. After the concrete was done the wires were run and hooked up. I also ran pipe to areas I thought might be needed later down the road, one run remained empty for 18 years until I installed my 2 post lift. It does take planning and things change over the years but in my case I was always adding more circuits. Ended up filling a 200 amp panel and still had to use some thin breakers to get it all to fit.

Oh yeah, I did that too. It will save you on wire expense in the long run. PVC is cheap.

Place the floor after its built and the finishers aren't sweating their butts off, sun isn't beating down on the Concrete, don't have to worry about rain, it dries slower, and the roof will help in slowing the cure.....IMO

I bet they'd rather sweat from the sun than have to hand jag wheel barrels full of concrete inside a building with no air circulation in Aug. You have a point on the curing process though. But they have additives for that, and/or a hose, lawn chair and a 6pack of beer is effective too.

 

[justanengineer]

As mentioned, something is wrong with your estimating if there is a significant price difference between stick and pole-barn construction for a common garage. Pole-barns start to make financial sense above 2k+ ft2, below it not really.

I'd much rather replace a couple hundred screws after 20yrs than an entire shingled roof, or even write the check to hire it done.

If you're replacing a shingled roof at 20 years you should educate yourself on roofing so the next contractor doesnt screw you as bad as the last guy. Most cheap shingles come with a 25 year warranty and having them go out to 30-40 is pretty common. Higher grades have 50 year/"lifetime" warranties.

 

[zmotorsports]

I'm having Permabilt come over this Saturday to quote me on a pole garage..
I looked at a stick build, but the price is 2.5x more.
If you had to do it again, what would you change?
Anything I should avoid?

My Idea was..
24' x 30'
8" lap siding
3 tap roof to match the house.
6" concrete floor
16' x 8' roll up door
36" man door

Something doesn't seem right with your original quote if you say 250% more for a stick built garage vs. a pole building, especially in the size you are talking about.

My new shop will be 3k square feet when completed and was only 40% more for footings, foundation, brick, stucco and asphalt shingles vs. a pole building. I would get a quote from another contractor if they are telling you it will be 2.5 times the cost for a stick built 720 square foot shop.

Mike.

 

[kj_mustang]

Check with your pole building builder to see how far they space posts and trusses first. Then decide on type of trusses needed for attics or mezzanines or if you will attach ceiling to bottom chord. The types of trusses, spacing of trusses and the number of posts will affect your build strength and pricing. Going with standard lengths of lumber (multiples of 8') for your sizing of the building and spacing of posts will get you more building with less waste. For the thread starter, I would suggest going 32' instead of 30'.

 

[Fyrme]

As mentioned, something is wrong with your estimating if there is a significant price difference between stick and pole-barn construction for a common garage. Pole-barns start to make financial sense above 2k+ ft2, below it not really.

I'd much rather replace a couple hundred screws after 20yrs than an entire shingled roof, or even write the check to hire it done.

If you're replacing a shingled roof at 20 years you should educate yourself on roofing so the next contractor doesnt screw you as bad as the last guy. Most cheap shingles come with a 25 year warranty and having them go out to 30-40 is pretty common. Higher grades have 50 year/"lifetime" warranties.

Why you quotin' be bro? lol. I've got a metal roof on my shop. The OP is the one with the shingles.

As far as the concrete goes, my 30'x40' pole barn slab cost me $5,250, that's $4.38sq ft. My highest bid was $6600, that's $5.50sq ft. My boss just had a 24'x30' stick built done and the slab and footings cost him $10,000, that's $13.90sq ft. That's a HUGE savings imo.

 

[Certified Drunk]

I was told $40k for a 600sf un-finished garage.
Since the contractor was an hour away from the job site, they wanted paid travel time.

 

[GasNSteering]

8ft door is way too short for toys (rv boat camper) my pole barn is 24x40x16 with a 14ft tall door. It is cheap to go up in height and I love having the interior height, swing a ladder or 2x4 around without hitting anything my door is 16w14high. for a door that size you have to have a commercial lifter, I chose to open it myself (hand power) saved me 1000 bucks, and it is easy to pull open.

Things I did that I like:
floor drain
pre-piped it for a sink and hose reel, use this all the time
woodstove and propane heat
electrical outlets on every pole
Ice machine tied into the drain
the poles they used are glued and laminated, the bases in contact with the ground are treated and also wrapped in special plastic.
4' concrete pad on outside of personnel door and in front of garage door (it wraps around)
built a lean too because i ran out of room inside!

Things I wish i did:
GO BIGGER
plumb for a toilet

remember to plan for insulation, it makes the barn. I did tyvek ceiling like they do in chicken houses, it worked well.

Any tips for getting the Tyvek tight and keep from sagging?

 

[GTFiero]

Just did.

30'D x 60'W x 12'H pole building, with 6"x6" (.70) post on 8'centers

2' spacing on the trusses, scissor trusses 14'4" interior height for 24' shop area, standard trusses for 36' storage area

5/8" plywood roof sheathing w/ 30yr. shingles, 6' ice/rain, synthetic underlayment

18'x10' non-insulated door, 10'x10' insulated door

2' eaves, 36" access door, rigid ridge venting, 30" (.60) of kick boards

4" cement floor/apron, 48'x24' apron area, floor drain in storage area: prepped for electric, water, gas: tyvek wrapped walls

Post are in sand down to 54" with 2'w x 2'L x 1' thick pads at bottom. All structure stressed for northern Michigan winters.

Less site prep total was $50,000

It all turned out well. Really don't see need to have done anything different. Will insulate, electrify, gas soon the shop area.

 

[GTFiero]

Tyvek will stretch some with building expansion and contraction. Wrap it as tight as you want when installing, but it will sag some after as you look at it from the inside. To help with drafts tape the seams. Also go right up to the eaves area, but don't interfere with venting areas. Also cover the skirt boards covered by the metal and corners. Yep, wrap it tight.

 

[1966chevelle]

Why you quotin' be bro? lol. I've got a metal roof on my shop. The OP is the one with the shingles.

As far as the concrete goes, my 30'x40' pole barn slab cost me $5,250, that's $4.38sq ft. My highest bid was $6600, that's $5.50sq ft. My boss just had a 24'x30' stick built done and the slab and footings cost him $10,000, that's $13.90sq ft. That's a HUGE savings imo.

I just got 2 quotes for a 40'x40' slab 4" thick and they were $3.00sq ft and $3.50sq ft that was with the gravel installed.

 

[Fyrme]

Was that for a pole barn or stick built with footings?
My cheapest bid was $2.70sqft, but he didn't sell it well, so for once I didn't go with the lowest bidder. I've learned you don't want a contractor that only does slabs for houses. They are used to pouring slabs that will be covered up.

 

[GTFiero]

4" slab for pole building and apron, rerod, wire mesh, thicker at edges of apron for support, roughing for plumbing/gas/water. $3.75 sqft