Pool construction in MN

[Husky79]

I've always wanted to learn how to build a pool.. Today I decided I am going to start the research on how to build a pool on my property in middle of no where.

Pool size 16x32 maybe? Possibly inground? End goal in the future will be to upgrade it into a indoor with sliding or retracting walls like airplane hangars. Will have some sort of home made boiler system, design is still in works.

Here's some info on my ground, its all loamy sand in north central MN. When I got the report back from the well company when they drilled the well. It was all loamy to where they hit the water at 66 ft.

I will not hire, I want to do it myself. I am well self taught and built a lot of things. I have a lot of tools, I have skidsteer, laser tools, mixer, sawmill, cnc, and more.

What type of material is recommended for my type of ground?

Some one once told me just to use my skid and make a rectangular sloped pool with one end at 8 ft deep and drop liner in, fill it up with water, drop piping in for the filtration system, with suction at bottom and recycled water out from top, do another one for the heating. pull pipes out for winter leave water in the pool over winter as there's no plumbing in there. I am not sure how that would work with liner because ice contracts and expands, so there's risk of tearing up the liner? Or has it actually been done and works that way. I'm told its cheapest, but I'm just sketchy about it due to the ice and liner thing and also not to forget that the ground being sand and sand shifts easily from foot traffic?

educate me or point me somewhere.

 

[mike93lx]

The trouble free pool forum is regarded as a fantastic resource.

You don't drain a pool for the winter, just the equipment and blown out the lines.

Liner pools are fine, but you don't dig a hole and drop in a liner like a pond, unless you want a pond. You install walls and a floor, then the liner goes over that.

Fiberglass shells are also an option and have the benefit of extremely fast installation.

I did a concrete (gunite/shotcrete) pool a couple years ago. Its not a fun or cheap process, but the end result is nice. If you have kids look at an auto cover. From a safety perspective, it's second to none, but it also keeps the pool so much cleaner

 

[Stuart in MN]

I'd think more along the lines of building a pond, but you mention eventually enclosing it so that's probably not an option.

 

[BombShelter]

Old issues of Popular Science and Popular Mechanics (found free on google books or archive.org) always had pool building articles back in the 70's.

 

[jetranger]

@mike93lx is correct with troublefreepool being the best pool resource, specifically the Under Construction subforum.

We just finished our pool here in Vegas last summer, and we're just now finishing the landscaping aroudnd it. We dug it, did the electrical and plumbing, but hired out the shotcrete, tile, plaster, and decking.

I figure we saved about $15-20k by doing a lot of it ourselves. Overall, the pool cost us about $40k, not including landscaping. It is 15,000 gallons, and the surface is 600 sq ft.

Day 1 of the dig -



Currently -





Happy to help if you have any questions!

 

[Ak Jim]

In Minnesota wouldn’t you want to insulate the pool from the ground? What does the soil temp get to there? Maybe 55°? It will take a **** load of energy ($) to heat the water.

 

[mike93lx]

In Minnesota wouldn’t you want to insulate the pool from the ground? What does the soil temp get to there? Maybe 55°? It will take a **** load of energy ($) to heat the water.

I've thought about this for even my pool in VA. I'd I built one again, I'd seriously look at it

 

[AdamMopar]

Following along.

 

[Nodakdad]

I don't think a guy would need to heat it.
I knew a number of people with outdoor pools, they don't heat them.
Just take a but ti warm up in the spring.

 

[mike93lx]

I don't think a guy would need to heat it.
I knew a number of people with outdoor pools, they don't heat them.
Just take a but ti warm up in the spring.

I happily heat my pool and would not have one without a heater. To each their own, but it makes the pool so much nicer, IMO

 

[MongoTA]

Before I put my pool in I saw DIY pool builds that were truly DIY done from ICFs, or stacked CMU, even using the same principles as a poured concrete foundation for a house. Typically waterproofed, coated with marcite or something similar. Can't speak to the longevity of such, but they got them done. Someone did a large one with EPDM or pond liner, with concrete/stone/brick/tile inside of it for the finished surfaces.

There are liner and shell kits you can install yourself. Or as I saw mentioned, a fiberglass shell.

Lots of ways in addition to those mentioned, it's really up to you to match one of them up to your abilities, tool, and aesthetic you are looking for.

I'm in CT so we have freezing in winter. When it came time for my build, I hired a company to put in a gunnite shell. They excavated and did the shell, waterline tile, and plaster coating. I did everything else. Pool is 20x40, kidney shaped to fit into the space we had for it.



I have a heater, propane, 400kBTU. I'd heat the pool if the kids had and early spring or late fall sports team pool party. But other than that the only thing that gets heated is the spa.

Plaster is a dark gray, with no supplemental heat the sun alone heats the water to the high 80s and sometimes low 90s. Low 90s is too damn warm though. Bath water. I open the pool usually in April, sometimes May. Close it in November.

Winterizing, pitch your pipes so they drain due to gravity versus having to pump 18 or 24" of water out of the pool each fall. Winterizing take me about 3-4 hours. Opening the pool in the Spring takes 2-3 hours. Water is ready for swimming a week after opening. For opening I add muriatic to bring the pH down. Shock with chlorine. Add baking soda and calcium. As I wrote, takes a bout a week to get the parameters where they need to be.

I'm a liquid chlorine guy. I use 12% pool chlorine. I have a 15gal bucket for bulk storage, the chlorine is automatically dispenses into the pool using a Stenner peristaltic pump. Best thing I ever did right there. Once the water chemistry is squared away my pool is pretty much hands-off regarding water quality. I test once a week...maybe. Might have to add a touch of muriatic to lower pH. But the Stenner keeps the chlorine where it needs to be, and the alkalinity, calcium, and CYA stay pretty steady through the swimming season.

A heavy rainfall can throw things off sometimes. Or urine after a pool party.

 

[Improved700]

I know you said you want to build and DIY this, but consider purchasing an above ground pool, and burying it to ground level, or almost ground level. That is what I did, and have been very happy with it.

The top of the pool rail is about 24 inches above ground. Perfect height for sitting on.
This is a Doughboy brand pool, that is approved for burial. Not sure if there are others that approve that.

 

[rooster59]

if I lived somewhere near Bemidji, I would study how people near me do it. A pool that works great in Tennessee might be a total disaster in Minnesota. Your winter is going to put a lot of constraints on the design and operation. Expenses as well.

 

[mike93lx]

Before I put my pool in I saw DIY pool builds that were truly DIY done from ICFs, or stacked CMU, even using the same principles as a poured concrete foundation for a house. Typically waterproofed, coated with marcite or something similar. Can't speak to the longevity of such, but they got them done. Someone did a large one with EPDM or pond liner, with concrete/stone/brick/tile inside of it for the finished surfaces.

There are liner and shell kits you can install yourself. Or as I saw mentioned, a fiberglass shell.

Lots of ways in addition to those mentioned, it's really up to you to match one of them up to your abilities, tool, and aesthetic you are looking for.

I'm in CT so we have freezing in winter. When it came time for my build, I hired a company to put in a gunnite shell. They excavated and did the shell, waterline tile, and plaster coating. I did everything else. Pool is 20x40, kidney shaped to fit into the space we had for it.



I have a heater, propane, 400kBTU. I'd heat the pool if the kids had and early spring or late fall sports team pool party. But other than that the only thing that gets heated is the spa.

Plaster is a dark gray, with no supplemental heat the sun alone heats the water to the high 80s and sometimes low 90s. Low 90s is too damn warm though. Bath water. I open the pool usually in April, sometimes May. Close it in November.

Winterizing, pitch your pipes so they drain due to gravity versus having to pump 18 or 24" of water out of the pool each fall. Winterizing take me about 3-4 hours. Opening the pool in the Spring takes 2-3 hours. Water is ready for swimming a week after opening. For opening I add muriatic to bring the pH down. Shock with chlorine. Add baking soda and calcium. As I wrote, takes a bout a week to get the parameters where they need to be.

I'm a liquid chlorine guy. I use 12% pool chlorine. I have a 15gal bucket for bulk storage, the chlorine is automatically dispenses into the pool using a Stenner peristaltic pump. Best thing I ever did right there. Once the water chemistry is squared away my pool is pretty much hands-off regarding water quality. I test once a week...maybe. Might have to add a touch of muriatic to lower pH. But the Stenner keeps the chlorine where it needs to be, and the alkalinity, calcium, and CYA stay pretty steady through the swimming season.

A heavy rainfall can throw things off sometimes. Or urine after a pool party.

despite being in a much warmer climate than CT, my heater still runs at times in the summer due to the significant shading from nearby trees. but the heater allows us to have a party for my son's birthday in April and keep the pool open all the way through September

one big added benefit to an auto cover is that rainwater doesn't impact chemistry at all. haven't figured out how to stop people from peeing in it though...

 

[CombatNinja]

If people piss in your pool, stop inviting them over. Simple.

 

[mike93lx]

If people piss in your pool, stop inviting them over. Simple.

Lol

What approach has worked for you? I've struggled with what age to start asking the kids directly vs their parents.

Survey after the party?

Its a reality of using a pool and having kids. Just something to deal with and it's not even really a problem

 

[MongoTA]

haven't figured out how to stop people from peeing in it though...

For the most part I guess I have to say it probably doesn't matter. We're empty nesters nowadays so it's not something we have to deal with anymore, however...I say fake 'em out.

Last September I hosted a family reunion, we were all out by the pool for the majority of the day. We might have had around 15 young kids. I said nothing ahead of time, but a couple of the parents did indeed take their kids inside to pee before swimming.

I have a SONOS sound system in the house as well as a few outdoor zones with the pool area being one of them.

The kids had been in the pool for maybe five minutes and I used my phone to have SONOS play a loud generic wailing siren sound through the speakers. Everyone, adults and kids, sort of stopped in their tracks. I muted the system and asked "Okay, the alarm went off, who peed in the pool?" Blank stares from the kids. Some worried looks from the parents. "Okay then, just to let you know if the alarm goes off again I'll have to ask you all out get out of the pool. Use the bathroom inside."

Throughout the rest of the afternoon the kids got out and ran into the house to go potty. Pool chemistry the next day was good.

 

[Skooterj]

I didn't construct my pool, but I watched the guys do it twice, once in the 80's and once 5 years ago. Now, this is a vinyl pool, so that's all I really have information about. It really was a quite simple process. The side panels for a vinyl pool are 3 foot wide by 4 foot? deep that get bolted together. They come in either stainless steel or composite polymore. I guess they also make galvanized. They come pre-cut for a skimmer or a light. You dig a big hole. You assemble the panels into whatever shape and size you want. They have inside and outside corners. They can be rounded or square corners. You then plumb all your pipes. At least 2 main drains and a skimmer return the water to a filter/pump location. Return lines bring the water back to the pool. You can have as many as you want. My current pool has 3 plus 2 deck jets for a water feature. Once all the plumbing is done, you bring in the concrete truck and pour the floor of the pool. Anything below the side panels is formed up and poured, as well as the floor. Once that is all set up, you backfill around the walls and pour the deck. Now, back in the 80's, instead of concrete, the floor was a thick sand called vermiculite. You can still use it, and it is softer, but it always moves no matter how hard you try to keep it smooth. Once all the concrete is dry, you custom measure and order a liner. Once the liner comes in, you place it, **** the air out from behind it and fill it with water, all at once. The water keeps the liner down while sucking the air out forces the liner to better adhere to the proper shape and eliminate rinkles. Then you hook up the pump and filter, and boom, time to swim. NEVER EMPTY or liner will float up and need replaced.

Supposedly, fiberglass pools are even easier. Dig hole, hook up plumbing, backfill, pour concrete deck, fill with water, swim. NEVER EMPTY or pool will float out of ground.

Now concrete (gunite) pools are another matter and I don't think anyone should be DIY. But if you have the skills, maybe. My knowledge of gunite pools is limited to Insane Pools. ALWAYS EMPTY if it is gonna freeze.

 

[dcg9381]

We just finished our pool here in Vegas last summer, and we're just now finishing the landscaping aroudnd it. We dug it, did the electrical and plumbing, but hired out the shotcrete, tile, plaster, and decking.

I figure we saved about $15-20k by doing a lot of it ourselves. Overall, the pool cost us about $40k, not including landscaping. It is 15,000 gallons, and the surface is 600 sq ft.

That looks amazing.. I'm surprised you could find a concrete crew to do it through.
That pool would cost $150k-175k here all day long.

I've considered a "pre-cast" (concrete) pool, just had a buddy do one, seems like a simple way to do it if you want a hole in the ground with water of moderate size.

 

[rayra]

In Minnesota wouldn’t you want to insulate the pool from the ground? What does the soil temp get to there? Maybe 55°? It will take a **** load of energy ($) to heat the water.

There's a great big ball of fire in the sky

The Definitive Guide to DIY Poly Tube Solar Pool or Spa Heaters - by a Thermodynamics Expert

The Definitive Guide to DIY Poly Tube Solar Pool or Spa Heaters - by a Thermodynamics Expert

www.ecoonline.com.au

 

[mike93lx]

I didn't construct my pool, but I watched the guys do it twice, once in the 80's and once 5 years ago. Now, this is a vinyl pool, so that's all I really have information about. It really was a quite simple process. The side panels for a vinyl pool are 3 foot wide by 4 foot? deep that get bolted together. They come in either stainless steel or composite polymore. I guess they also make galvanized. They come pre-cut for a skimmer or a light. You dig a big hole. You assemble the panels into whatever shape and size you want. They have inside and outside corners. They can be rounded or square corners. You then plumb all your pipes. At least 2 main drains and a skimmer return the water to a filter/pump location. Return lines bring the water back to the pool. You can have as many as you want. My current pool has 3 plus 2 deck jets for a water feature. Once all the plumbing is done, you bring in the concrete truck and pour the floor of the pool. Anything below the side panels is formed up and poured, as well as the floor. Once that is all set up, you backfill around the walls and pour the deck. Now, back in the 80's, instead of concrete, the floor was a thick sand called vermiculite. You can still use it, and it is softer, but it always moves no matter how hard you try to keep it smooth. Once all the concrete is dry, you custom measure and order a liner. Once the liner comes in, you place it, **** the air out from behind it and fill it with water, all at once. The water keeps the liner down while sucking the air out forces the liner to better adhere to the proper shape and eliminate rinkles. Then you hook up the pump and filter, and boom, time to swim. NEVER EMPTY or liner will float up and need replaced.

Supposedly, fiberglass pools are even easier. Dig hole, hook up plumbing, backfill, pour concrete deck, fill with water, swim. NEVER EMPTY or pool will float out of ground.

Now concrete (gunite) pools are another matter and I don't think anyone should be DIY. But if you have the skills, maybe. My knowledge of gunite pools is limited to Insane Pools. ALWAYS EMPTY if it is gonna freeze.

Even a gunite pool needs care when empty. Mine has 2 or 3 vents on the floor to allow ground water to enter if the pool is emptied. That said, I haven't heard of needing to drain gunite in freezing conditions, but my experience in cold weather was with a vinyl liner. We'd drop the water level to just below the skimmers, drain the lines and cover it up.

In my pool (in VA) , I don't drain it, but I blow the lines out and plug all the inlets/outlets.

 

[BombShelter]

I was looking up something else and saw they're using ICF to build pools now.

ICF Pool Construction in 25 Steps

BuildBlock's ICF Pool Construction in 25 Steps training course is now available via the BuildBlock online training portal.

buildblock.com

 

[dcg9381]

I was looking up something else and saw they're using ICF to build pools now.

Interesting, but that looks like a lot of work and doesn't end up much different from a pre-cast concrete pool...

I see a lot of ppl advertising "container pools" but I've seen very few (actually completed) in real life:

 

[BombShelter]

In one of my many jobs we built big square plastic tanks for chemicals. We had to have a lot of steel bracing wrapped around them, I'm sure those containers need support, especially if they aren't below grade.

I watch the youtube videos on why containers aren't really good for much outside of storage, they really need all four sides to be structurally complete, when you start cutting stuff off, you better reinforce it.

 

[Kadeweva]

I had similar concerns about pool size and insulation in cold climates, so I went with a plunge pool setup. They use way less energy to heat and are quicker to cover. I got some great layout and insulation ideas from https://www.masterbuiltpools.com.au/plunge-pool-designs/—helped me figure out how to build something cost-effective without losing all the benefits of having a pool up here.

 

[hobie18]

Any updates?

 

[Rc_Guy]

I don't think a guy would need to heat it.
I knew a number of people with outdoor pools, they don't heat them.
Just take a but ti warm up in the spring.

You put a heater in a pool in Minnesota to open it earlier in the season and close it later in the season. I think our son opened it 3 weeks earlier with heat and close it 2-1/2 weeks later than normal.

 

[PWC Repair]

I guess if these guys can do it in the jungle,......anyone in a first world country should be able to LOL!!

 

[mike93lx]

You put a heater in a pool in Minnesota to open it earlier in the season and close it later in the season. I think our son opened it 3 weeks earlier with heat and close it 2-1/2 weeks later than normal.

I havent tried to run my pool without the heater in VA, but my folks pool in MA that had some solar heating wasn't getting really warm til late June and we'd be closing it at labor day.

I opened mine (in VA) this past weekend with it at 50 degrees. The kids jumped in but it's too cold for me.
Running the heat pump during the day has it at 65 already.... 20 to go.

The forecast is cool the next couple weeks, so I won't run the heat pump much, but last year I had it up to 80 in the second week of April. That's a lot more than an extra 3 weeks of swimming

We'll close it at the end of September when it's losing more heat overnight than I can efficiently put back into it during the day with the heat pump

 

[ddurrett896]

I havent tried to run my pool without the heater in VA, but my folks pool in MA that had some solar heating wasn't getting really warm til late June and we'd be closing it at labor day.

I opened mine (in VA) this past weekend with it at 50 degrees. The kids jumped in but it's too cold for me.
Running the heat pump during the day has it at 65 already.... 20 to go.

The forecast is cool the next couple weeks, so I won't run the heat pump much, but last year I had it up to 80 in the second week of April. That's a lot more than an extra 3 weeks of swimming

We'll close it at the end of September when it's losing more heat overnight than I can efficiently put back into it during the day with the heat pump

Do you cover at night to retain the heat? What's it cost to tun the heat pump?

I'm close to you and the kids were swimming this weekend at 65 degree water temp, but everything I read on heaters is that you lose it all at night unless covered.

 

[mike93lx]

Do you cover at night to retain the heat? What's it cost to tun the heat pump?

I'm close to you and the kids were swimming this weekend at 65 degree water temp, but everything I read on heaters is that you lose it all at night unless covered.

Yes, we have a safety cover on it, so it's covered unless we are using it. I'm sure it helps, but I'm also sure that a lot of heat is lost to the ground as well.

I just turned the pump on to see temp. It was 65 yesterday afternoon and is showing 63 right now but it's still circulating a bit so that might come up another degree.

My heater is 126k btu and costs about $1/hr of run time. Two years ago, I hit it hard for spring break week (this week) and got it up to 80 for something like $70-80. My emporia Vue is telling me that all of last season (late march to early September) was 4100 kwh, or $722ish. We have a lot of shade over the pool, so minimal sun gain. It means I run the heater a bit even in the middle of the summer, but I'll trade that for shade without question.

Are you heating yours?

 

[mike93lx]

Yes, we have a safety cover on it, so it's covered unless we are using it. I'm sure it helps, but I'm also sure that a lot of heat is lost to the ground as well.

I just turned the pump on to see temp. It was 65 yesterday afternoon and is showing 63 right now but it's still circulating a bit so that might come up another degree.

My heater is 126k btu and costs about $1/hr of run time. Two years ago, I hit it hard for spring break week (this week) and got it up to 80 for something like $70-80. My emporia Vue is telling me that all of last season (late march to early September) was 4100 kwh, or $722ish. We have a lot of shade over the pool, so minimal sun gain. It means I run the heater a bit even in the middle of the summer, but I'll trade that for shade without question.

Are you heating yours?

After two days of not running the heater since the ambient temps only got to about 60, I was surprised to see what water temp hadn't dropped. Still sitting at 63 as of this morning