Porcelain Tile Questions

[OJ Bartley]

I’ve done a fair amount of research into epoxy coatings, and now I want to look into porcelain as an option for my garage floor. Its not something I was originally considering, but after seeing and reading about it more on here, it seems like a great way to go.

My garage is a small single-car, at a little over 200 sq ft, and will be used for tool storage, regular car parking, and I hope to build a small workbench at the back. I want this floor to be “do it right and do it once” kind of thing, so durability is key.

Living in Toronto, we do go through hot summers and cold winters, so temperature will have an impact on whatever I decide to use. Also, water and salt resistance will be key because during the winter we drive right into the garage and can end up with a slushy mess. I’m not too concerned about the slip factor, but a tile with some amount of nonslip would be good. Glazed vs. unglazed? Textured vs. smooth? I assume there are pros and cons to each.

From what I’ve seen so far, I think ideally I’m looking for rectified porcelain tiles, for the increased uniformity and ability to have thin grout lines. I would like to also tile the concrete border around the perimeter of the garage below where the drywall starts, which varies in height, increasing from back to front. I think I have read not to grout the corner joint between floor and wall, but to caulk it to allow for expansion or movement.

Another concern is the lip at the front of the garage. There is an existing lip (maybe ½ inch) going from the asphalt driveway to the concrete pad and I don’t want it to become an issue after adding more height with tile. I have read that some people use something like this Schluter-RENO-RAMP to go from the tile to the concrete. Is this a good outdoor solution (or are there others like it)?

My thoughts were that I could have the transition ramp right at the edge of the concrete (which is outside the garage door), and build up the asphalt a little bit where the driveway meets the concrete, using that asphalt filler that comes in a bag. This should give me a nice smooth(ish) ramp inside. Something like this:

There are a lot of tile stores in the city, and I assume many would have some kind of clearance or liquidation stock so I could hopefully pick up a good tile for a great price. Since I’m not set on a particular size, pattern, or colour, I could look through what they have and choose the best. Does it sound like tiles are for me? Any thoughts or advice from those with experience?

Here’s a quick sketchup model of how I picture the garage to end up with the workbench. I think either tile or epoxy coating would add a lot to the space, I’m just not sure which way to go.

**** EDIT: PROJECT HAS ACTUALLY STARTED HERE ****

 

[JimVonBaden]

I am all over the porcelain tile idea for all the reasons you stated. Unfortunately I realized it was better after installing VCT. I like my VCT, but think tile would be better.

As for the lip, on my garage, that lip keeps out rain water because my drive slopes into my garage!

My lip is about 1-1.5" tall and I would not consider using any kind of ramp to the lip. I do not find it hard to roll over it pushing my motorcycle or my cart for gardening.

Jim

 

[dngo]

I am 99% certain I'm going with porcelain tile as well for my new garage though I will probably have Scotty come out for a professional installation estimate. The edge transition is a concern for me as well. The Reno Ramps seem like a good solution (I've seen others here use it or something similar.) I am not convinced that years of rolling things over that transition (especially if I ever decide to roll the 4 post lift out of the garage on its casters) will not damage that aluminum trim.

Schluter makes a different edge trim called RENO-V that they specifically say is suitable for garages where the trim is backfilled with mortar. That seems to be a much more durable solution.

http://www.northlandconstruction.com/product/schluter-reno-v/

Dave

 

[JimVonBaden]

I am 99% certain I'm going with porcelain tile as well for my new garage though I will probably have Scotty come out for a professional installation estimate. The edge transition is a concern for me as well. The Reno Ramps seem like a good solution (I've seen others here use it or something similar.) I am not convinced that years of rolling things over that transition (especially if I ever decide to roll the 4 post lift out of the garage on its casters) will not damage that aluminum trim.

Dave

Absolutely! I wasn't advocating the aluminum trim, it isn't that durable. I was more attempting to disuade the use of a ramp on the outside lip. The inside lip would be fine.

On the other hand, if his driveways slopes away from his aarage, the ram would be fine.

Jim

 

[bdamico]

You're overthinking it. The tile will be fine. I have a 1-inch lip. The tile sits on top of that. My cars drive over it fine. The concrete didn't crumble on edge from the traffic. Neither will the tile

 

[dngo]

Absolutely! I wasn't advocating the aluminum trim, it isn't that durable. I was more attempting to disuade the use of a ramp on the outside lip. The inside lip would be fine.

On the other hand, if his driveways slopes away from his aarage, the ram would be fine.

Jim :brow

I certainly did not intend to imply that you did.

Dave

 

[Jack Olsen]

I just beveled some concrete along the edge. It's held up without any issue. (Although, full disclaimer: I'm in sunny Southern California where it never freezes.)

All tiles have ratings for moisture content (which determines resistance to freeze/thaw cycles), coefficient of friction (slipperiness when wet) and hardness (PEI's rating of 1-5; most porcelain is 5). Get the tile that's rated for your freeze/thaw situation and the rest should be fine.

Glazed tile will be easy to clean up. Unglazed tile -- if I'm understanding right that it's like terra cotta tiles -- would not be a good choice, since it will absorb oil and other liquids just like concrete. One of the nicest things about tile is being able to clean up oil spills with a paper towel and not having any mark left behind.

 

[noweare]

You may want to use epoxy grout between tiles because epoxy has good chemical resistance. Cement grout will not do well with salts.

 

[OJ Bartley]

Thanks everyone. Jim, I think I saw pics of your floor in another thread. It looks great, and I had considered VCT too, but then decided that porcelain is probably better for me.

dngo, thanks for the link to that lip, I'll do some more research around those.

Jack, your comments are very much appreciated. Seeing what you were able to do with ceramic (including the hammer video) was a large inspiration for going to tile.

bdamico, I could probably get away with leaving the lip, but I'd feel more comfortable with a transition of some kind. Maybe just a beveled cement is the way to go, I'm not sure yet.

And noweare, I have heard good things about epoxy grout, but also seen a few people say that it is much more expensive, was a huge pain to work with, and it still soaked up stains. Are those just bad applications do you think?

 

[sam_i02]

I just picked up 13 x 13 porcelean tile on the cheap (relatively speaking, of course) at Home Depot about 3 weeks ago. They had it on sale for 85c/sq.ft and had it sitting by the cashiers in the front of the store. Dark beige color too - exactly what I wanted. I noticed that it was not advertised in their weekly fliers, so best is to stop by the store and check it out.

I have a one car garage too and plan to begin my flooring project this weekend. Currently working on getting the tools I will need for the project along with the thinset, grout, spacers...etd. Will update you all with pics when I make some progress.

My plan is lay out and install all the full pieces this weekend and rent a tile saw next weekend and finish off the cut pieces and the bottom sections of the walls (where missign drywall).

You are welcome to swing by and give me a hand!

 

[JimVonBaden]

I just picked up 13 x 13 porcelean tile on the cheap (relatively speaking, of course) at Home Depot about 3 weeks ago. They had it on sale for 85c/sq.ft and had it sitting by the cashiers in the front of the store. Dark beige color too - exactly what I wanted. I noticed that it was not advertised in their weekly fliers, so best is to stop by the store and check it out.

I have a one car garage too and plan to begin my flooring project this weekend. Currently working on getting the tools I will need for the project along with the thinset, grout, spacers...etd. Will update you all with pics when I make some progress.

My plan is lay out and install all the full pieces this weekend and rent a tile saw next weekend and finish off the cut pieces and the bottom sections of the walls (where missign drywall).

You are welcome to swing by and give me a hand!

Post up some photos of your progress. I expect that I will eventually do this too.

Jim

 

[Jack Olsen]

And noweare, I have heard good things about epoxy grout, but also seen a few people say that it is much more expensive, was a huge pain to work with, and it still soaked up stains. Are those just bad applications do you think?

Epoxy will resist stains better than the regular stuff. But the greater expense and more-difficult install parts are true.

I used a dark brown regular grout, and all my efforts to stain it have failed. It's dark brown. However, they don't salt the roads where I live.

 

[slickgt1]

For the edge, get SS. Look for my Garage Renovation post. I used it everywhere. And the link in my sig, is the durability thread for tile. In front of the SS tile edge, I put a rubber threashold, which the door closes against. Keeps water and all the nasty stuff out. My garage is below street level. 2 years now, in the North East, and no issues at all.

 

[Dakota00]

I have heard good things about epoxy grout, but also seen a few people say that it is much more expensive, was a huge pain to work with, and it still soaked up stains. Are those just bad applications do you think?

You don't need epoxy grout, use an exterior grout it's just as good. It's so much easier to work and clean, plus it's cheaper than epoxy. If you need the extra protection (maintain grout color) you could seal the grout.

 

[Turbota]

Since we are talking about porcelain tiles here ... many of this type of tile are "rectified".

Since rectified tiles can be set very close together, the grout lines are so narrow that it really don't make alot of difference what color grout you use.

These are rectified porcelain tiles on my garage floor. They could have been installed much closer together, but as you can see, the grout line width is still pretty narrow (these are 20" x 20"):

 

[OJ Bartley]

Sam, I'll be watching your thread for updates! I should start looking for sales on tile as well since I'm not in a huge hurry. I do plan to visit several tile suppliers and see what they have on clearance special.

Jack/Dakota, I think I would go with a regular dark exterior rated grout too, and probably seal it for good measure. I'm sure there will be appropriate products that can stand up to the elements. Staining isn't a big worry, but it would be nice to keep things looking clean. Hopefully if I can find rectified tiles I can keep the gap to 1/8". Always nice to get input from a pro, Dakota (especially a local one!).

Slick, I just read through your renovation thread, great work!! Really nice job on the floor. I had seen your thread about the durability before, and it helped to push me in this direction, but I hadn't seen the full reno. It looks like you had a big job overall but it all came out great. Beautiful baby too! I see you're in Brooklyn, we were just in NYC last weekend and we made our traditional trip to Grimaldi's at the new location. Can't wait till Juliana's opens up to see how it compares.

EDIT: Turbo, thanks for the pic, you sneaked that in while I was writing this post... I think finding rectified tiles will be a definite goal for this project. What is the width of the grout in that floor?

 

[slickgt1]

Thanks for the comments. Still not done with the garage though. I get very little done since the baby. Like an outlet a week. lol.

Rectified tiles cost a lot more, so not sure you want to budget it that way. And yes, epoxy grout is a huge ***** to apply. Huge. Like really annoying. I was so sick of it, but decided to stick it out. In the end I am happy with it. Never have to deal with it again. Although, I personally feel that regular grout would do the same job.

 

[OldNeons]

If you do tile, do it right and use epoxy grout. I used regular grout in my kitchen with $100/gallon top of line sealer and in a year it looked like ****. I used epoxy in my utility room, mud room, and master bath and it looks like new. Yes it's harder to work with and tough to clean while grouting, but I'll never use regular grout again. Do it once, do it right -then epoxy grout especially in a garage. If not, go with dark brown or black grout and live with the dirt smudges and stains. Epoxy wipes clean easily EVERY time.

 

[OJ Bartley]

I'll price out the difference and see how bad it is. I'm with OldNeons on wanting to do it once, do it right, but at the same time I'll have to cap the cost of this project somewhere, and if the only substantial difference is stain resistance then the epoxy might not make the final cut. My garage won't be in pristine showroom condition, so I doubt that it will take much away from the project as long as the actual strength of the regular grout won't fail on me.

 

[OldNeons]

If you go with regular grout just make it very dark as jack said and staining won't be a big issue, it won't wipe clean like epoxy but won't look terrible either.

 

[slickgt1]

It is true that the epoxy grout takes a beating in my garage. I'll put up more pics where I spilled diff fluid all over it, saw dust, the works. It always wipes up nice and easy. I only use brake cleaner on it to get the oily film off.

Epoxy grout will cost 4 times more than regular grout. I forget exactly how much it cost, but I payed over $120, for about 450sq-ft.

I have used epoxy grout a number of times now. The trick that I found to it, is to get it clear, and leave that tacky residue on the tile. Just don't walk on any of those tiles, as all your footprints will show up. Leave it like that, and all will be golden. Do not let it haze. It does not haze like regular grout. If you let it haze, you will kick yourself in the nuts.

After my garage, the epoxy grout became a lot more friendly to me. I have done a couple of little jobs with it, and it is easy. Just you need to plan ahead, no one can walk on that section. I think you can see in my reno thread where there was blue tape on the floor. Those were the markers, where I was not allowed to cross.

 

[OJ Bartley]

Assuming the cost would be similar here, it sounds like the difference can't be too great for my ~200 sq ft garage. But my next concern would be actually doing it properly, since I have never done tile work before. This will probably be my "training" job for doing our kitchen backsplash, but starting out with epoxy on my first job sounds a little intimidating.

Actually, on a side note, would epoxy be better suited to the kitchen backsplash too? That's an area where I really WOULD want better stain protection.

 

[slickgt1]

Assuming the cost would be similar here, it sounds like the difference can't be too great for my ~200 sq ft garage. But my next concern would be actually doing it properly, since I have never done tile work before. This will probably be my "training" job for doing our kitchen backsplash, but starting out with epoxy on my first job sounds a little intimidating.

Actually, on a side note, would epoxy be better suited to the kitchen backsplash too? That's an area where I really WOULD want better stain protection.

Just approach it like I did.

1. It is a garage, and not a fancy showroom.
2. Don't try this in the kitchen, garage is your canvas. Learn there, the wife will like you more.
3. Do it in the area where your cabinets will be first to get the hang of it. It will be covered anyway, so unless it's a huge mess, you will never be able to tell.
4. If you screw up, and you put down through body porcelain, it is tougher than the epoxy on it. I have used a wire brush attachment on my drill to clean up lots of super sticky **** off my floor.
a. Oil Based Stain
b. Oil based furniture poly.
c. Dap, expanding foam, the yellow one. Don't ask.
d. Hilti expanding foam. Don't ask again.
e. This is the worst that has glued itself to my floor, and I had to scrape it off, then cut it down with a razor, then wire brush. PL Premium construction adhesive. I hate and love this stuff at the same time.

All of the above dried, as I didn't notice it when working, and only realized it when the project was moved from that location, or finished.

 

[Dakota00]

Actually, on a side note, would epoxy be better suited to the kitchen backsplash too? That's an area where I really WOULD want better stain protection.

People fail to understand that epoxy grout is really only suited for extreme wet areas.

Regular grout and exterior grout is more than enough for a garage floor and has stain protected properties in it.

If you have money and time to burn give epoxy grout a try.

 

[OJ Bartley]

Thanks everyone. I think I'll price it out and see, but will likely be OK with plain old exterior grout. I will try to get out and price some tiles over the next few weeks and I'll update when I make some progress.

 

[Grimlock]

Hey everyone! I love this site! We're buying a new home (we close 9/11 of all days...) and was wondering about what flooring options I could do with our new garage! This thread has convinced me to go the porcelain route. I'm hoping to do glossy black tile, with black epoxy grout.

One minor question. Does this kind of application stand up to the occasional motor/****** oil spill? I'm hoping this type of flooring will be easy to clean up.

Thanks!!

 

[Jack Olsen]

Super easy to clean any kind of oil or solvent up. Even dried-on paint comes up with a razor blade.

The downside with black tiles will be the amount of light it absorbs and also the frustration of trying to find anything you drop on it. To my mind, the cool thing about ceramic or porcelain tile is that you can go with a light color and not have to worry about the normal types of stains. The grout is a different story -- the darker the better for that.

 

[OJ Bartley]

And make sure that if you want to go glossy that you check the coefficient of friction for the tiles. You don't want to end up with tiles that will be a death trap when wet.

I'm patiently watching sales and checking the odd tile place for clearance items, and am hoping to pull this project together before the fall, but you never know. I want to make sure I do this right, even if it means I can't do it right NOW.

 

[slickgt1]

Guys, do you ever see those huge pallets of wrapped building supplies by the home depot stores? By me, there is one Home Depot that always does this. I just saw a guy get a pallet, 4' high, full of Porcelain tile for $85. WTF. I couldn't believe it. He was even negotiating and got it down from $120. Even at $120, it is a steal. I got a pallet full of paint, new paint, for $15 once. I always check these pallets out when I see them. I would have purchased that tile one if it wasn't for the guy already there.

 

[OJ Bartley]

I have never seen that, but I'll be on the lookout now! 2 of my neighbors have painted their garage floors in the last couple weeks and I'm itching to start.

 

[CamarosRus]

Any tile experts here who can reply about my current water vapor transmission issues AND installing tile on this slab.

Spoke with a MAPAI sales rep yesterday about their sealing chemicals. Cant quote costs of prep and products but thinking the mositure issue (8.5#) wil not be cheap to treat.

He suggested I used certain MAPAI tile adhesives and QUARRY tile as it would breathe.

MAPAI rep implied his suggested products and methods would eliminate my need to treat the mositure issue. I asked him, would not the same efforvessence appear on top of tile
as now appears on ceratin areas of my 29' x 50' slab.

MAPAI rep to visit my bldg/slb this coming Friday (8/31/12) and look the situation over.

My shop will not be a museum nor a full on industrial weld shop. I do want a NICE cosmetic look as the rest of my bldg and home is pretty "nice"

Thanks for your comments.

 

[slickgt1]

CamaroRus, don't over think this. My slab was a mess. No moisture barrier. I used to have a pit in front of my garage for water. So basically all the water would drain into the soil under my garage. I fixed this issue just recently. Mainly because it made my slab crack in the front of the garage. I re-inforced the slab, and tiled it. My floor also had some sort of garage paint, that was only in a few areas. Kerabond is great stuff. I added it to my thinset. Also my garage is below street level. So sometimes, in heavy rain, I get about a foot of water against the door. Not funny when I have to get the car out. Not funny at all, especially when I have to leave, and the damn water stays in garage, on my tile till I come home and let it drain outside.

When it snows people get 6" on the street. I get like 4' by the door. I open the main door, and have to shovel the garage out. Also not very funny. My neighbor gets a kick out of it every time though. Even though his setup is similar.

That being said. Don't over think it. Even if a tile decides to come off, replacing it, is not an issue at all. I doubt it will come off though. I mean people tile pools without a problem. I have an outside concrete deck tiled. I am going to tile my backyard eventually, and that still has a pit for a drain. Really not going to think twice about it.

 

[CamarosRus]

slickgt1 You evidently have real experience.....curious if your a DYI or
tile pro ??
I AM over thinking this project
as i need to do this ONLY ONCE CORRECTLY
I have a water vapor transmission issue that
needs to be addressed as I believe the efforvesence
will come through grout w/o treatment
So many companies selling moisture mitigation products
hard to conclude which one to install.
Then need to consider $$$ shot blasting or grinding
to a CSP-3 profile

Yes in deed lot to THINK about...

 

[slickgt1]

I own a construction company. So renovations all the time. lol.

How are you basing your water issues. From the epoxy tests? Does your concrete look wet?

Yes I think you are over thinking it. All the basement reno's that come my way, we push the owner to tiles. Same reason as you. Flooding, no moisture barriers. Most of the houses around here don't have vapor barriers at all. I know this, because there have been multiple houses where we would break the slab to run plumbing. Houses around here are 80 to 100+ years old. Of the 15+ jobs that we have done, not one issue to this day.

And those tiles were not installed like you would in garage. As in no backbutter, or minimal, and only if necessary to get some thickness. And I still don't consider myself a tile expert. I just get dirty when my guys need help.

My garage and family projects, yea those I do myself. I don't overthink it. I figure if I mess up, I will just tear it out. My tile guy can throw tiles down 30x faster than I can. But I give it special care and love. I'll snap some pics of a deck I did out of scrap tiles. Oh and I laid it on top of epoxy. Almost a year now, still sticking. I'll try to get pics on Friday.

 

[Mat Mobile]

I also have have a question in regards to efflorescence. I have a small issue with this in my current garage. It only appears on the edges. Later on (hopefully this fall) I would like to lay tile in this garage.

BUT...

My first home had efflorescence and I did not treat it because I did not know what it was. The surface was really pitted! So I just laid a thin coat of surfacing cement which I ground down with a surface grinder similar to this:

Then I applied U-Coat it.

Well that garage is still mine (rental) and the u-coat it and surface cement lifted in big chunks from what I believe is efflorescence.

I think the application of the U-Coat-it was fine but I hadn't treated my efflorescence issue.

4 years later (last year) I applied ceramic in the basement of my current home. Since I learned from my mistake. I applied this product to some areas of the floor where minor efflorescence was visible:

Is this sufficient?

Because three of those tiles have cracked. These tiles only see foot traffic.

Was it caused by efflorescence? Incorrect back buttering (I used a 1/4" notched trowel to apply on the floor and for the back buttering)?

(sorry if my post is confusing... having trouble on where to start... )

 

[slickgt1]

Take those cracked tiles out and see if the thinset bond is not holding. I don't have a 1/4" trowel, so I use my 1/2", and make sure to squeeze the excess out. I put the tile down, and sort of wiggle it while my weight on it.

 

[Mat Mobile]

Take those cracked tiles out and see if the thinset bond is not holding. I don't have a 1/4" trowel, so I use my 1/2", and make sure to squeeze the excess out. I put the tile down, and sort of wiggle it while my weight on it.

Great idea! I had no intention of replacing them (it's barely visible) but if it can help me improve for the next job with similar conditions it's definately worth it.

 

[CamarosRus]

Anybody explain "thru body porcelain tile" as I saw this term on Seattle CRAIGS LIST.

 

[hughfree]

Anybody explain "thru body porcelain tile" as I saw this term on Seattle CRAIGS LIST.

Through body tile refers to the construction of the tile. The color pattern is consistent through out the thickness of the tile. Much preferred in a shop setting.

 

[slickgt1]

through body as opposed to glazed. Glazed, if you somehow chip it, will be a different color underneath. Through-body, if you somehow chip it, will be the same color under the chip. Through body would be the better option.