Porcelain Tile Questions

[OJ Bartley]

Well it looks like I'm going to go with tile! I hope these will do the job... Home Depot had them on for $0.85/sq ft.

They are glazed porcelain, not through body, but I don't think I'll have much chipping to worry about. Hardness should be decent at PEI 4, and the coefficient of friction is less than ideal (0.5 wet), but I laid a few down in the store, poured water on them, and slid my foot around to test. I think they'll be fine for parking and getting out of the car even when wet.

One funny thing is that the colour is VERY similar to concrete, so it may look like I didn't do anything in the end! I'll go with a dark grout to make the tiles stand out more I think. I kind of impulse-bought them when I saw them in the flyer, but less than $250 (after tax) for 16 boxes to do the garage floor and lower walls... that's a great price.

Now I just need to learn how to tile.

 

[Dakota00]

I saw the flyer as well, I was very tempted to buy them!!

 

[Jack Olsen]

That's going to be a great floor.

 

[OJ Bartley]

Thanks guys. I'm not sure if I'll be able to do the work before it gets too cold out? It might have to wait until spring. I don't want to ruin it by trying to tile when its too cold out. And since I'll probably need a couple of weekends to finish the job, it might just make more sense to wait at this point. Either way, I'll keep this thread updated if anything changes.

 

[stanleyoutdoors]

I'm looking to tile in a couple weeks. What is minimum temperature for laying the tile?
Thanks

 

[PT Doc]

Cof might be an insure. One fall and injury and you ill negate your up front savings. Thru body might be an issue but time will tell. By once, cry once.

 

[Todd.Brock]

I have a maxjax that I have yet to actually install and use. Well, I have the holes drilled but that is as far along. I am really thinking about using this dark grey tile I found that is Porcelain, PEI 5, made in the USA (Daltile) and about 1.50 sq/ft. I have about 450 sq ft. Any thoughts on how a lift with bolts going through tile would act?

 

[Dakota00]

^^ If the tile is installed properly with no voids, there's absolutely no issues bolting the lift through the tiles.

 

[OJ Bartley]

Cof might be an insure. One fall and injury and you ill negate your up front savings. Thru body might be an issue but time will tell. By once, cry once.

Thanks for the concern, PT Doc. I had some initial concerns about the COF too, but to make sure it felt OK I laid down a few tiles on the store floor and poured water on them. I walked, twisted, scuffed my shoes, and had my wife try too.

If it were a large, high traffic area then I would want to be on the safe side with more grip, but since this is a small garage I think it will be fine. The only time I'll be walking in there would be {A} when parking or getting into the car (it is a small 1 car garage with literally barely enough width to park the car - I have to shimmy in and out); or {B} when I do get the garage finished and a workbench built, if I'm working on a project with the car out in the driveway. In this case, I'll probably rarely have a wet floor to deal with.

I did put some thought into it, and I think after testing the tiles with a wet surface they'll be plenty safe for us in this application.

I was out last night showing my neighbor the tile and explaining my plans, and he pointed out that it would be a huge pain to grind down the uneven areas on the walls. It seems that the forms weren't done very well and the sections of concrete aren't all straight, as well as having lots of excess material where the joints were. I have decided that my best bet will be to clean up the worst of it, and paint the exposed concrete on the walls instead of trying to tile it and probably making a mess of it. I'll probably try to tile the small section on the back wall where the tap comes out (this will be behind/under my future workbench) for a little extra protection and cleanliness.

 

[PT Doc]

Thanks for the concern, PT Doc. I had some initial concerns about the COF too, but to make sure it felt OK I laid down a few tiles on the store floor and poured water on them. I walked, twisted, scuffed my shoes, and had my wife try too.

If it were a large, high traffic area then I would want to be on the safe side with more grip, but since this is a small garage I think it will be fine. The only time I'll be walking in there would be {A} when parking or getting into the car (it is a small 1 car garage with literally barely enough width to park the car - I have to shimmy in and out); or {B} when I do get the garage finished and a workbench built, if I'm working on a project with the car out in the driveway. In this case, I'll probably rarely have a wet floor to deal with.

I did put some thought into it, and I think after testing the tiles with a wet surface they'll be plenty safe for us in this application.

I was out last night showing my neighbor the tile and explaining my plans, and he pointed out that it would be a huge pain to grind down the uneven areas on the walls. It seems that the forms weren't done very well and the sections of concrete aren't all straight, as well as having lots of excess material where the joints were. I have decided that my best bet will be to clean up the worst of it, and paint the exposed concrete on the walls instead of trying to tile it and probably making a mess of it. I'll probably try to tile the small section on the back wall where the tap comes out (this will be behind/under my future workbench) for a little extra protection and cleanliness.

Goo to see you are doing your homework up front. This should be a great floor. Don't rush. Good luck.

 

[JamieK]

What's your location? Our local Home Depot doesn't show anything like that in the sales paper.

 

[Steves32]

Getting ready to tile my floor in a few weeks.
I have expansion joints tooled into the slab. Very few cracks in my slab- been down for 18 months now. The cracks are in the bottom of the joints.
I'd like to tile right over them. My tile guy says shouldn't be an issue but for peace of mind- recommended this stuff. Not cheap!!!

http://www.custombuildingproducts.c...-underlayments/spiderweb-uncoupling-mat.aspx#

Garage is 20x21 & tile will be 8x16 porcealin tiles.

Overkill or not?



Here's pics of the floor.
1/2 rebar on 18" centers, 6-8" thick, monolithic pour.

 

[Dakota00]

What's your location? Our local Home Depot doesn't show anything like that in the sales paper.

It was in the Ontario area Home Depot flyer.

 

[OJ Bartley]

What's your location? Our local Home Depot doesn't show anything like that in the sales paper.

Yep, sorry Jamie, this was in Toronto.

Really nice garage, Steves32.

 

[slickgt1]

You can tile as long at is stays above freezing in there.

Oj, that's going to look awesome.

As far as slipping, just use caution. I slipped yesterday. Didn't fall, but got caught by surprise. I have a huge step by my rear door. I have to step over it to get into garage. I just walked through a puddle, and my door was open so it was really wet inside. Once I slipped, I went to see WTF. Never happened before. I see a nice trail of mud. So I am thinking I need to clean my floor more often. I just built a kitchen in there, so sawdust, regular dust, plus water made it slippery enough. I think anything would be slippery with that combo. Maybe I'll put a door mat by that door. I always leave it open for air.

 

[Todd.Brock]

Home Depot sells a rubber membrane "decoupling" solution. It's thick, gooey, bright red and smells like hell. I used it in my basent bathroom where the floors had been cut up and repoured from moving drain pies around.

 

[OJ Bartley]

**** UPDATE ****

Well, the weather is finally getting warmer, so I hope to tackle this fairly soon. I'm trying to put together as comprehensive a list as I can, so I don't get into it and make a stupid mistake. I have the tiles, but that's all. So far the plan is:

1) Start with an antifracture membrane (maybe? see questions below)
2) Use a high quality, highly modified thinset. (Mapei Kerabond/Keralastic system? FlexBond?) "Burn" thinset on the floor (scrape it in various directions with the flat side) before combing it in straight line with the notched side.
3) Back butter tiles.
4) Ensure use of the correct notch, which depends on the size of the tile
5) Ensure complete coverage under the entire tile, pay attention to corners.
6) Use a dark exterior rated grout (I don't want to use epoxy in this case).

I have a relatively small area (about 10 x 20) with no seams or cracks (maybe a few small hairlines). Pitch seems fine, as water drains from the back wall to the door. I live in Toronto, so it will see freeze, thaw, salt, and snow.

Questions:
- Is it a good idea to use an antifracture membrane underneath the thinset or is it unneccessary? RedGard or Mapei Mapelastic HPG or similar?
- Is there a specific grout to use with a specific thinset? (if I used the Mapei modified thinset above, should I look for a matching grout?)
- As far as tile patterns, any reasons to go with either a straight lay or a brick/offset pattern? I think I'd like the look of the offset a little more, if there's no real difference.
- I can't decide about using the Schluter Reno Ramp on the front lip, has anyone else used it in this application? The lip would be outside 24/7, should that be a concern? Should I just form a beveled edge with thinset, or would I need to get something more sturdy?

I think that's it for now... it will be my first time doing tile and I'm a little nervous about diving in.

 

[Rolls 912]

I spend a lot of time on a creeper + many of my tool chests etc are on wheels. Is there any concerns re. Getting stuck in the grout?

 

[JimVonBaden]

I spend a lot of time on a creeper + many of my tool chests etc are on wheels. Is there any concerns re. Getting stuck in the grout?

Use rectified tile, or flat edge tile. Even if not it isn't a big issue.

Jim

 

[cbracer]

I've been looking at underlayments as well. The rubber based products appears to be quite good:
http://www.nacproducts.com/ECB.htm
http://www.proflex.us/wordpress/products/elastomeric-membranes/maxxim-series-sim-40/

Then there is just a fabric type decoupler:
http://www.prospec.com/products/productdetails.aspx?menu=3&acc=10&id=1094

 

[JimVonBaden]

I've been looking at underlayments as well. The rubber based products appears to be quite good:
http://www.nacproducts.com/ECB.htm
http://www.proflex.us/wordpress/products/elastomeric-membranes/maxxim-series-sim-40/

Then there is just a fabric type decoupler:
http://www.prospec.com/products/productdetails.aspx?menu=3&acc=10&id=1094

Why would you put a flexable underlayment under tile that will receive heavy loads? Wouldn't that cause the tile to crack? Seems counterproductive to me.

Jim

 

[OJ Bartley]

I spend a lot of time on a creeper + many of my tool chests etc are on wheels. Is there any concerns re. Getting stuck in the grout?

Not once it has dried, Rolls. Ha! Really though, the best bet is tiles with a rectified edge and thin grout lines. I still don't think you'd have too much trouble with regular tiles and grout, unless the crawler has very thin wheels.

Why would you put a flexable underlayment under tile that will receive heavy loads? Wouldn't that cause the tile to crack? Seems counterproductive to me.

Jim, I was just looking at the "paint on" type of antifracture membranes in case they would add some stability, or if the waterproofing was necessary (but I don't really care about unless it would be bad for the tiles). If I'm good to go on a single piece of concrete, I'll happily skip that step and the expense. I think I'd prefer to have everything secured as solidly as possible to the concrete, as close to one solid slab of rock as I can get it.

 

[slickgt1]

Skip the membranes. Its a waste of $$$$. Think of it this way. For the expense of a couple of hundred bucks, you could break a tile a day every year, replace it, and still come out on top without spending $$$ for the membrane. And the paint-on ones, are crazy expensive.

I still haven't broken any tiles by the way.

 

[duneslider]

Membranes are hardly a waste of money. That's the kind of comment someone makes that doesn't know what they are talking about. They may not always be needed but they are not a waste of money. That's like saying you don't need to wax your car because it has a clear coat. Sure, you may not have to wax it but waxing it will make it last longer, look better, prevent some type of damage and be a good investment.

A membrane won't help with breaking one tile, that happens from heavy impact. Membranes help prevent a 20' crack from forming through your whole garage. That would mean you would be chipping out 20' of tile every year, doesn't sound fun to me.

Most membranes carry a heavy commercial rating, so they are used in locations that will have pallet jacks and forklifts rolling around. Even the ones that aren't heavy commercial rated will probably hold up just fine in most residential garages.

 

[duneslider]

One that is fairly affordable is Fracture Guard 5000 by Merkrete. I think it is around $100 for a 3.5gal pal and that covers about 300 ft.

 

[SapesOfIndia]

Redgard at HD is $128. If you can swing 20% off competitor's coupon (Harbor Freight), like I did , you come close to $100.

 

[OJ Bartley]

Thanks for the input guys. If the membrane is mostly just to seal existing cracks and prevent them from getting worse (or causing tile damage above), I should be fine, but if they're a good "general practice" in all cases, I could swing another $100 to make this project more durable. If I did go for it, is the membrane paintable as well? I'll have sections of exposed concrete about 1' up each wall that I won't be tiling, and if I did seal, I'd prefer to go right around and then paint the remaining exposed areas. Keep in mind, this is a 10' x 20' single car garage, just a comparatively small slab and it seems pretty stable and crack free. Poured maybe 6 or 7 years ago.

Edit: Wow, HD has the 1gal buckets for $90. That is supposed to cover 35-40 sq ft, and I've seen comments that people were falling short of that. Could get expensive fast.

 

[SapesOfIndia]

Edit: Wow, HD has the 1gal buckets for $90. That is supposed to cover 35-40 sq ft, and I've seen comments that people were falling short of that. Could get expensive fast.

HD has 3.5 Gal Redgard for $128

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/100678063#.UUflxhyPOss

and 1 Gal for $48.97

unless you are talking about Gal of something else.

There is also FractureFree and it is basically redgard without waterproofing qualities. Good enough for the garage.
See Custom's website for where you can get it. I checked and it was $88 for 3.5 gal locally but because HD was just convenient for just few bucks more I went for RedGard.

http://www.custombuildingproducts.com/products/surface-preparation/membranes-underlayments.aspx

 

[OJ Bartley]

Thanks Sapes... looks like it is more expensive here in Canada (as usual). Maybe I'll go by HD, Lowes, etc. on the weekend and see if they have the FractureFree or RedGard in the larger size that doesn't show on the ".ca" website. I'm still reading around to see if its something that I want to do.