Power in Shed

[Sevenhills1952]

Forgot to mention code. You'll get all kinds of replies about that. Code shmode!
Even if you had a 3 wire hot, neutral, ground to outer doesn't matter...the a.c. adapter will have two prongs anyway.

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[RKCRLR]

I didn't read through all 37 replies but solution is simple.
Going out to my well house for submersible pump is 240v three wire. Two hots and neutral. So 120v each hot wire to neutral (that are 180deg out of phase). So what I did was wire from one hot leg to neutral to outlet. That I plug in a 60 watt lamp for a little heat in winter. Off of cut out relay, pump side, I ran two wires again 120v out through a hole drilled in side mounting a lamp socket, 25 watt red bulb. This way light on means pump's running. Over the years it's shown me I have a leak somewhere, a faucet left on, etc.
My point is simply wire one hot to neutral to an outlet box. There's your 120v source. Plug in the standard a.c. adapter, 120v to 12v. Or for a trouble light, heat light, etc.

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Get ready to get jumped on. While that is tempting (and works) it isn't code compliant (and potentially unsafe). I'm trying to do something that is code compliant (or close) for when (if ever) I go to sell.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I saw that - an AC transformer is what was suggested - a much different thing.

They were meaning the same thing.

 

[mike93lx]

Forgot to mention code. You'll get all kinds of replies about that. Code shmode!
Even if you had a 3 wire hot, neutral, ground to outer doesn't matter...the a.c. adapter will have two prongs anyway.

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

You aren't going to do well here...

 

[MattT]

I wasn't going to take a neutral from another circuit. I would re-purpose my existing insulated ground wire as a neutral wire by connecting it to the neutral bars at both ends. But then I would need a ground wire. That is what I would run from the outlet that has a ground. Is this allowed?

Changing the existing ground to neutral would be an insulation color code violation for sure. You're not allowed to use phase tape, or better shrink sleeving, on smaller conductors. The ground wire may also be too small to use as a neutral.

A new spliced ground certainly wouldn't be best practice but I'm not sure whether it'd violate code?? Wylie can probably answer that. And again the ground wire running to your receptacle may not be large enough to use for the well??

Is there a practical way to hard wire a 12VDC power adapter into the 240v circuit?

There are plenty of hard wireable options you could mount in a box with fuses for the 240V input legs. I'd also fuse the +12V DC output. Link is just for reference not a recommendation of the vendor or their products.

https://www.trcelectronics.com/12-volt-dc-power-supplies

BUT a word of caution on using a ~100-250V input power supply. They're designed to work globally on L1 & Neutral not US L1 & L2. There is a risk the DC voltage could be floating at a dangerous level when used on US 240V. Personally I'd ground the DC 0V then see if the power supply blew up.

 

[nh_yota]

You would buy a small 240/120v transformer and use that to power a 120v 15a outlet.

That's probably the route I would take.

 

[slow]

If it was me, and code/permitting was an issue, I would go simple, little solar panel and a battery and forget about it. I happen to have these parts laying around, so cost would be minimal

 

[RKCRLR]

Changing the existing ground to neutral would be an insulation color code violation for sure. You're not allowed to use phase tape, or better shrink sleeving, on smaller conductors. The ground wire may also be too small to use as a neutral.

A new spliced ground certainly wouldn't be best practice but I'm not sure whether it'd violate code?? Wylie can probably answer that. And again the ground wire running to your receptacle may not be large enough to use for the well??



There are plenty of hard wireable options you could mount in a box with fuses for the 240V input legs. I'd also fuse the +12V DC output. Link is just for reference not a recommendation of the vendor or their products.

https://www.trcelectronics.com/12-volt-dc-power-supplies

BUT a word of caution on using a ~100-250V input power supply. They're designed to work globally on L1 & Neutral not US L1 & L2. There is a risk the DC voltage could be floating at a dangerous level when used on US 240V. Personally I'd ground the DC 0V then see if the power supply blew up.

The existing ground wire is the same gauge as the other wires. However the insulation is green. I didn't realize I wouldn't be allowed to use white tape on the exposed ends to identify them as a neutral wire.

Is this an item you were referring to in your link?
https://www.trcelectronics.com/View/Mean-Well/APV-12-12.shtml
What is the significance of it being purposed for LED lighting?

Thanks

 

[RKCRLR]

That's probably the route I would take.

I must be missing something.
Wouldn't a 240VAC to 120VAC transformer have the same issues for wiring as a 240VAC to 12VDC power adapter?
This thing would need to reliably run 24/7/365 in an unconditioned environment. If I'm using both a transformer and power adapter it just seems like more problems.
How much power do these transformers consume when idling (only producing enough power to run the internal clock on the filter)?

Thanks

 

[nh_yota]

I must be missing something.
Wouldn't a 240VAC to 120VAC transformer have the same issues for wiring as a 240VAC to 12VDC power adapter?
This thing would need to reliably run 24/7/365 in an unconditioned environment. If I'm using both a transformer and power adapter it just seems like more problems.
How much power do these transformers consume when idling (only producing enough power to run the internal clock)?

Thanks

Yes they would achieve the same result but with the 240/120 transformer you would also have the outlet that you can use for tools or a light or other things rather than just a hardwired converter.

 

[RKCRLR]

Yes they would achieve the same result but with the 240/120 transformer you would also have the outlet that you can use for tools or a light or other things rather than just a hardwired converter.

I get that. And it would be nice to have power there (mainly for a light). But it is a small shed (8x10) and is used to house the well components and garden tools. I have a power outlet 50' away and just run an extension cord (stored in the shed) when I need it.

Thanks

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I didn't read through all 37 replies but solution is simple.
Going out to my well house for submersible pump is 240v three wire. Two hots and neutral. So 120v each hot wire to neutral (that are 180deg out of phase). So what I did was wire from one hot leg to neutral to outlet. That I plug in a 60 watt lamp for a little heat in winter. Off of cut out relay, pump side, I ran two wires again 120v out through a hole drilled in side mounting a lamp socket, 25 watt red bulb. This way light on means pump's running. Over the years it's shown me I have a leak somewhere, a faucet left on, etc.
My point is simply wire one hot to neutral to an outlet box. There's your 120v source. Plug in the standard a.c. adapter, 120v to 12v. Or for a trouble light, heat light, etc.

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This is completely wrong. You should not be doing wiring anywhere.

A 240v motor does NOT need a neutral. The wires going to your well are 2 hots and an EGC aka GROUND.

So now that youre using the ground wire as a neutral return, youve created a shock potential.

If someone touches a grounded surface or pipe and the pathway is less resistant than the wire then they will get shocked.

Good job with your hacked up wiring.

Forgot to mention code. You'll get all kinds of replies about that. Code shmode!
Even if you had a 3 wire hot, neutral, ground to outer doesn't matter...the a.c. adapter will have two prongs anyway.

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Yeah code shmode until someone gets hurt.

Your poor shocking advice is not gonna last here.

Best to take it somewhere else.

 

[Sevenhills1952]

This is completely wrong. You should not be doing wiring anywhere.

A 240v motor does NOT need a neutral. The wires going to your well are 2 hots and an EGC aka GROUND.

So now that youre using the ground wire as a neutral return, youve created a shock potential.

If someone touches a grounded surface or pipe and the pathway is less resistant than the wire then they will get shocked.

Good job with your hacked up wiring.



Yeah code shmode until someone gets hurt.

Your poor shocking advice is not gonna last here.

Best to take it somewhere else.

Man...goofy statement.
Here's why. Residential wiring comes into the house 240v. It's 240v center tapped transformer secondary. So two 120v hot legs 180 degrees out of phase.
Open your panel box. From power meter into your main breaker. Two hot leads, 240v measured across them, 120v measured from center (neutral) to each hot leg.
Now! Where does that neutral go? To neutral buss bars all tied into or I should say connected along with a driven ground. Therefore neutral and ground all tied together. Looking in your box you see two rows of breakers. Black (hot) wires going each side. The neutral busses will have white neutral wires ALONG WITH BARE GROUND WIRES. So the 3 wire system, again, residential guess what...white neutral and bare driven ground one and the same...they're connected together. Neutral =ground.
Now...in my well house (where your ******* get all waded up!) That outlet has the hot (one 240v leg) and neutral. The ground I ran over to a copper pipe (old house, buried copper and galvanized pipe). But remember...look into your panel box if you don't believe me...neutral and ground are tied together. The only shock hazard would be if you have a voltage differential between neutral and ground! Again, neutral =ground!
Now...(phew!)...about that brilliant 240v to 120v dropping transformer idea. Yea, that would work also. There's one little problem...you have to be sure you're getting one more than the VA (i.e. wattage) rating of whatever tool, light, appliance you'll ever use there.
Now my """dangerous, rigged, death defying """ system I have I'm using a 30 amp breaker. A 60 watt (or 1/2 ampere or 500mA) incandescent lamp has miniscule effect.
Now! It's your chance to eviscerate me with your nonsense, explain to the OP how/what to do, how I know nothing of residential wiring and spend his money.
Explain to him the "right" way to do it.

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[DC73]

Man...goofy statement.

wyliesdiesels knows his stuff. You should listen to him. Neutrals and grounds are only allowed to be tied together at the main service entrance point. Otherwise neutral currents can flow on the ground conductors which is a major safety hazard.

DC

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Man...goofy statement.
Here's why. Residential wiring comes into the house 240v. It's 240v center tapped transformer secondary. So two 120v hot legs 180 degrees out of phase.
Open your panel box. From power meter into your main breaker. Two hot leads, 240v measured across them, 120v measured from center (neutral) to each hot leg.
Now! Where does that neutral go? To neutral buss bars all tied into or I should say connected along with a driven ground. Therefore neutral and ground all tied together. Looking in your box you see two rows of breakers. Black (hot) wires going each side. The neutral busses will have white neutral wires ALONG WITH BARE GROUND WIRES. So the 3 wire system, again, residential guess what...white neutral and bare driven ground one and the same...they're connected together. Neutral =ground.
Now...in my well house (where your ******* get all waded up!) That outlet has the hot (one 240v leg) and neutral. The ground I ran over to a copper pipe (old house, buried copper and galvanized pipe). But remember...look into your panel box if you don't believe me...neutral and ground are tied together. The only shock hazard would be if you have a voltage differential between neutral and ground! Again, neutral =ground!
Now...(phew!)...about that brilliant 240v to 120v dropping transformer idea. Yea, that would work also. There's one little problem...you have to be sure you're getting one more than the VA (i.e. wattage) rating of whatever tool, light, appliance you'll ever use there.
Now my """dangerous, rigged, death defying """ system I have I'm using a 30 amp breaker. A 60 watt (or 1/2 ampere or 500mA) incandescent lamp has miniscule effect.
Now! It's your chance to eviscerate me with your nonsense, explain to the OP how/what to do, how I know nothing of residential wiring and spend his money.
Explain to him the "right" way to do it.

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

Im a union electrician and been doing electrical for decades. Work on residential, commercial and industrial electrical including 480v 3 phase.

I know far more than you as evidenced by your verbal diarrhea comments.

I will not waste my time reading your novels.

Have a good day

 

[The Cobbler]

sevenhills1952, I'm glad you don't work on my house, and I am thankful that all of my electrical has been inspected. unlike your your description above where it no way would pass and be potentially dangerous to the homeowners .

but hey. look at the money saved by buying cheaper wire, and it works ( insert sarcasm)

and yes,I'm certain WD knows his stuff, as already been mentioned

 

[Sevenhills1952]

Rather than pointing out where I'm wrong (what I said is true), I'm trying to assist, cyberbullying ensues with a feeble attempt of I'm supposed to be impressed by credentials?
It's like having a meaningful dialog about global ecology with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez! [emoji23][emoji38]
Fix OPs problem...I can't wait!

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[alfredeneuman]

cyberbullying ensues with a feeble attempt of I'm supposed to be impressed by credentials?

Kind of like your comment in another thread (My background in electronics engineering far surpasses his) when talking about an electrician?

 

[nh_yota]

Neutral and ground should only be tied together in one place (the first disconnect after the meter) otherwise you create parallel paths and a shock hazard.

 

[exranger06]

Man...goofy statement.
Here's why. Residential wiring comes into the house 240v. It's 240v center tapped transformer secondary. So two 120v hot legs 180 degrees out of phase.
Open your panel box. From power meter into your main breaker. Two hot leads, 240v measured across them, 120v measured from center (neutral) to each hot leg.
Now! Where does that neutral go? To neutral buss bars all tied into or I should say connected along with a driven ground. Therefore neutral and ground all tied together. Looking in your box you see two rows of breakers. Black (hot) wires going each side. The neutral busses will have white neutral wires ALONG WITH BARE GROUND WIRES. So the 3 wire system, again, residential guess what...white neutral and bare driven ground one and the same...they're connected together. Neutral =ground.
Now...in my well house (where your ******* get all waded up!) That outlet has the hot (one 240v leg) and neutral. The ground I ran over to a copper pipe (old house, buried copper and galvanized pipe). But remember...look into your panel box if you don't believe me...neutral and ground are tied together. The only shock hazard would be if you have a voltage differential between neutral and ground! Again, neutral =ground!
Now...(phew!)...about that brilliant 240v to 120v dropping transformer idea. Yea, that would work also. There's one little problem...you have to be sure you're getting one more than the VA (i.e. wattage) rating of whatever tool, light, appliance you'll ever use there.
Now my """dangerous, rigged, death defying """ system I have I'm using a 30 amp breaker. A 60 watt (or 1/2 ampere or 500mA) incandescent lamp has miniscule effect.
Now! It's your chance to eviscerate me with your nonsense, explain to the OP how/what to do, how I know nothing of residential wiring and spend his money.
Explain to him the "right" way to do it.

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

Soo, if neutrals and grounds are the same thing, then explain why receptacles have a separate screw to connect the ground conductor. While you're at it, explain why we have 3-prong receptacles now instead of 2-prong. Why do we need a separate ground prong if it's the same thing as a neutral, when we already had a neutral prong on 2-prong receptacles?
You should read up on "voltage drop." When you carry current on a wire, the voltage is NOT the same at both ends of the wire. Just because a neutral is connected to ground and is at the same potential as ground at the panel, does NOT mean it's at the same potential at the outlet. The voltage can absolutely be higher and more than enough to shock you.

 

[Sevenhills1952]

Soo, if neutrals and grounds are the same thing, then explain why receptacles have a separate screw to connect the ground conductor. While you're at it, explain why we have 3-prong receptacles now instead of 2-prong. Why do we need a separate ground prong if it's the same thing as a neutral, when we already had a neutral prong on 2-prong receptacles?
You should read up on "voltage drop." When you carry current on a wire, the voltage is NOT the same at both ends of the wire. Just because a neutral is connected to ground and is at the same potential as ground at the panel, does NOT mean it's at the same potential at the outlet. The voltage can absolutely be higher and more than enough to shock you.

Finally some polite dialog!
A few pictures may help explain. This is a simple receptacle tester. First picture shows ok. (35 years ago here I had home 200A service installed professionally and inspected as before retirement I had my Company to run as an electronic technician/ troubleshooter. Afterwards in evenings I wired garage, other buildings...yes to code). Of course... "You should read up on "voltage drop." When you carry current on a wire, the voltage is NOT the same at both ends of the wire." Yes, I know a little bit about voltage drop. Ohm's
Law is the cornerstone of it all. Voltage drop directly relates to resistance of the conductor wire (length, composition, size) and amount of current flow through it.
Second picture shows a faulty 6 plug adapter, open ground...3rd picture slight twist and it makes contact...all is well. (I'm tossing that adapter though).
Fourth picture I simply clipped in hot, neutral and tester shows open neutral. Last I clipped in a jumper from neutral to ground...tester shows all is well.
FYI I just now got off the phone with our local service provider speaking with an engineer, I explained scenario to him, he agreed I was correct.
Why the 3 vs 2 prong plug?
Years ago the a.c. outlets weren't polarized. You could plug an appliance in either way. Tremendous shock hazard since the metal case could be hot with respect to ground (metal water pipe).
Three prong polarizes , can only plug in one way. Hot, neutral, ground.
As I said...agreement with provider engineer...ideally you want zero volts (again...ideally) or close as possible between neutral and ground.
For what the OP wants to do, installing a 2 prong 12v a.c. adapter this will be fine.
For a little more expense and work sure, he could put in a driven ground rod wired into an GFCI receptacle ground, one leg of the 240v (120v hot) then center neutral.
I simply wired in a 3 prong outlet, since there was already a metal buried pipe going out I used that ground.

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[theoldwizard1]

Why the 3 vs 2 prong plug?
Years ago the a.c. outlets weren't polarized. You could plug an appliance in either way. Tremendous shock hazard since the metal case could be hot with respect to ground (metal water pipe).
Three prong polarizes , can only plug in one way. Hot, neutral, ground.
As I said...agreement with provider engineer...ideally you want zero volts (again...ideally) or close as possible between neutral and ground.

That is not exactly the story as I heard it !

"Back in the day" (pre WW-II) many appliance had metal exteriors (case). The insulation used on small appliance wiring was typically rubber cover by cotton. With age, the rubber would dry out and crack and the cotton would wear. A short to the "case" was possible and the operator could provide the path to ground.
With a ground attached to the case, it meant that if there was a short from hot to the case, the fuse would blow, instead of the operator providing the "path to ground".

 

[nh_yota]

That is not exactly the story as I heard it !

"Back in the day" (pre WW-II) many appliance had metal exteriors (case). The insulation used on small appliance wiring was typically rubber cover by cotton. With age, the rubber would dry out and crack and the cotton would wear. A short to the "case" was possible and the operator could provide the path to ground.
With a ground attached to the case, it meant that if there was a short from hot to the case, the fuse would blow, instead of the operator providing the "path to ground".

That's correct. Polarized outlets and equipment grounds are two different things.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

And connecting a ground rod to a ground terminal on an outlet is COMPLETELY incorrect.

Grounding electrodes will not establish a low impedance fault current pathway.

Some very wrong info on this thread.

 

[DC73]

Some very wrong info on this thread.

Agree. The OP (and everyone else as well) would do well to ignore any electrical advice given by 7hills1952.

DC

 

[mm08822]

OP, the easiest solution is to buy a power supply with these specs:
240vac input
12 vdc output, 1 amp (I assume this covers your current wall wart output. Not sure if it was ever confirmed. Adjust output specs as needed.)

Put this in a 4-11/16" sq x 2-1/8" box. Feed it from your pump disconnect.

Cut the wall wort off of your device's cable and wire it into the power supply output.

Mail wall wort to 7hills1952.

To be 100% correct, you would also need a few bussman fuseholders installed in the box to protect the tap conductors off of the disconnect.

 

[exranger06]

Finally some polite dialog!
A few pictures may help explain. This is a simple receptacle tester. First picture shows ok. (35 years ago here I had home 200A service installed professionally and inspected as before retirement I had my Company to run as an electronic technician/ troubleshooter. Afterwards in evenings I wired garage, other buildings...yes to code). Of course... "You should read up on "voltage drop." When you carry current on a wire, the voltage is NOT the same at both ends of the wire." Yes, I know a little bit about voltage drop. Ohm's
Law is the cornerstone of it all. Voltage drop directly relates to resistance of the conductor wire (length, composition, size) and amount of current flow through it.
Second picture shows a faulty 6 plug adapter, open ground...3rd picture slight twist and it makes contact...all is well. (I'm tossing that adapter though).
Fourth picture I simply clipped in hot, neutral and tester shows open neutral. Last I clipped in a jumper from neutral to ground...tester shows all is well.
FYI I just now got off the phone with our local service provider speaking with an engineer, I explained scenario to him, he agreed I was correct.
Why the 3 vs 2 prong plug?
Years ago the a.c. outlets weren't polarized. You could plug an appliance in either way. Tremendous shock hazard since the metal case could be hot with respect to ground (metal water pipe).
Three prong polarizes , can only plug in one way. Hot, neutral, ground.
As I said...agreement with provider engineer...ideally you want zero volts (again...ideally) or close as possible between neutral and ground.
For what the OP wants to do, installing a 2 prong 12v a.c. adapter this will be fine.
For a little more expense and work sure, he could put in a driven ground rod wired into an GFCI receptacle ground, one leg of the 240v (120v hot) then center neutral.
I simply wired in a 3 prong outlet, since there was already a metal buried pipe going out I used that ground.

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Everything you just said is completely wrong. The 3rd prong on receptacles has nothing to do with polarization. Notice how the neutral slot on a receptacle is bigger/longer than the slot for the hot leg. THAT'S how plugs are polarized. I have plenty of appliances and tools with 2-prong polarized plugs. The longer neutral prong ensures I can only plug it in one way.
So you were able to fool an outlet tester by joining the neutral and ground together. All you did was point out a flaw in the tool, not that it was wired correctly. They're not foolproof.

If you could just connect the ground and neutral together, then why does Romex cable have a separate conductor in it specifically for ground? Why not eliminate it and just have everyone pigtail the neutral wire and connect it to both the ground screw and the neutral screw? For that matter, why even have a ground screw? If the 3rd prong is just for polarization as you say, why not leave it and just not connect it to anything?

You cannot connect the 3rd prong to a ground rod. The purpose of the 3rd prong is NOT to send fault current to the literal ground. It sends the current back to the SOURCE (the transformer). The idea is to have a low impedance path back to the source, which is going to send a ****-ton of current through the wires in the event of a fault. This causes the circuit breaker to open as fast as possible, clearing the fault. The ground rods at the panel serve an entirely different purpose and has nothing to do with the grounding of the receptacles.

I already told you the reason you can't use neutral as ground: voltage drop. You can have one piece of wire that's 0V with respect to ground at the panel, and that SAME piece of wire can have 30V or more at the other end where it connects to the outlet. If you touched it at that end (or you're touching the "grounded" case of an appliance that's actually connected to neutral instead of a REAL ground) and touch something that's actually grounded at the same time, you're gonna get a shock!

 

[mm08822]

Man...goofy statement.
Here's why. Residential wiring comes into the house 240v. It's 240v center tapped transformer secondary. So two 120v hot legs 180 degrees out of phase.
Open your panel box. From power meter into your main breaker. Two hot leads, 240v measured across them, 120v measured from center (neutral) to each hot leg.
Now! Where does that neutral go? To neutral buss bars all tied into or I should say connected along with a driven ground. The connection to a grounding electrode has nothing to do with the equipment grounding conductor run along with the intentional current carrying conductors of a circuit.

Therefore neutral and ground all tied together.
Looking in your box you see two rows of breakers. Black (hot) wires going each side. The neutral busses will have white neutral wires ALONG WITH BARE GROUND WIRES. So the 3 wire system, again, residential guess what...white neutral and bare driven ground one and the same...they're connected together. Neutral =ground. Neutral ≠ ground. The separately purposed conductors happen to return to the same point since this is the main panel.

Now...in my well house (where your ******* get all waded up!) That outlet has the hot (one 240v leg) and neutral. What color is the neutral or is it bare?

The ground I ran over to a copper pipe (old house, buried copper and galvanized pipe). That’s a dependable low impedance branch circuit fault path! NOT!

But remember...look into your panel box if you don't believe me...neutral and ground are tied together. The only shock hazard would be if you have a voltage differential between neutral and ground! Again, neutral =ground!
Now...(phew!)...about that brilliant 240v to 120v dropping transformer idea. Yea, that would work also.
There's one little problem...you have to be sure you're getting one more than the VA (i.e. wattage) rating of whatever tool, light, appliance you'll ever use there. Now my """dangerous, rigged, death defying """ system I have I'm using a 30 amp breaker. A 60 watt (or 1/2 ampere or 500mA) incandescent lamp has miniscule effect. A 30 amp cb for the pump circuit is protecting a 15 or 20 A recept? Well, you earned another star! Do take pictures of that masterpiece - with the covers off of course.

Now! It's your chance to eviscerate me with your nonsense, explain to the OP how/what to do, how “I know nothing of residential wiring” and spend his money. Let me quote you out of context, I agree. You know nothing about electrical safety and less about the code. Your methods are no more advanced than a junior high school kid in science lab hooking up a few batteries on a breadboard trying to get the little light to light up for the first time.

Explain to him the "right" way to do it. People are. What you are pontificating is pure dangerous BS. No one wants an unsafe practice given as advice. You don’t make an equipment grounding conductor an intentional current carrying conductor EVER. Why you could be the Rev. Jim Jones in GJ. Get them to drink the Kool-aide and then wham - lights out.

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Finally some polite dialog!
A few pictures may help explain. This is a simple receptacle tester. First picture shows ok. (35 years ago here I had home 200A service installed professionally and inspected as before retirement I had my Company to run as an electronic technician/ troubleshooter. Afterwards in evenings I wired garage, other buildings...yes to code). Of course... "You should read up on "voltage drop." When you carry current on a wire, the voltage is NOT the same at both ends of the wire." Yes, I know a little bit about voltage drop. Ohm's
Law is the cornerstone of it all. Voltage drop directly relates to resistance of the conductor wire (length, composition, size) and amount of current flow through it.
Second picture shows a faulty 6 plug adapter, open ground...3rd picture slight twist and it makes contact...all is well. (I'm tossing that adapter though).
Fourth picture I simply clipped in hot, neutral and tester shows open neutral. Last I clipped in a jumper from neutral to ground...tester shows all is well.
FYI I just now got off the phone with our local service provider speaking with an engineer, I explained scenario to him, he agreed I was correct.
Why the 3 vs 2 prong plug?
Years ago the a.c. outlets weren't polarized. You could plug an appliance in either way. Tremendous shock hazard since the metal case could be hot with respect to ground (metal water pipe).
Three prong polarizes , can only plug in one way. Hot, neutral, ground.
As I said...agreement with provider engineer...ideally you want zero volts (again...ideally) or close as possible between neutral and ground.
For what the OP wants to do, installing a 2 prong 12v a.c. adapter this will be fine.
For a little more expense and work sure, he could put in a driven ground rod wired into an GFCI receptacle ground, one leg of the 240v (120v hot) then center neutral. That is useless as an equipment grounding conductor.

I simply wired in a 3 prong outlet, since there was already a metal buried pipe going out I used that ground. Hopefully it was a metallic electrical conduit and not rusted away. Does it even have continuity back to the neutral bar?

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Just pure BS.....

OP, Welcome to GJ.

 

[Sevenhills1952]

Yes! Pure B.S. is what I say as well! < So happy to know both myself as well as our local power company provider engineer is full of it! Coming from you that's quite a compliment.
My assistance as well as my phone call to the power company was directed to the OP which you are not. Enjoy wallowing in ignorance!

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[DC73]

Enjoy wallowing in ignorance!

The ignorance is yours.

To all others: I've reported his posts to the moderators as containing dangerous electrical advice and recommended they delete his info from this thread.

DC

 

[alfredeneuman]

The OP (and everyone else as well) would do well to ignore any electrical advice given by 7hills1952.

Truer words have never been spoken

 

[exranger06]

Yes! Pure B.S. is what I say as well! < So happy to know both myself as well as our local power company provider engineer is full of it! Coming from you that's quite a compliment.
My assistance as well as my phone call to the power company was directed to the OP which you are not. Enjoy wallowing in ignorance!

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Dude, I AM a power company engineer and I say you're full of it. You also have several licensed electricians with probably over a century of combined experience who are saying you're full of it.

 

[Sevenhills1952]

Yes. I'll follow this (advice?) as well to our local power company engineer as he would enjoy that. Have a nice day.

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[wyliesdiesels]

Youre so full of it your eyes are turning brown.

Funny how everyone points out your dangerous BS and you just keep on keeping on with it.

Your advice will get someone killed onenof these days.

And i dont buy that an electrical engineer for a power company thinks your advice and practices are kosher.

 

[theoldwizard1]

OP, the easiest solution is to buy a power supply with these specs:
240vac input
12 vdc output, 1 amp ...

This is post #66. I said the same thing in post #3.

 

[alfredeneuman]

This is post #66. I said the same thing in post #3.

No you didn't>
"Is it 12VAC or 12VDC ? If AC, just buy a 240V/12V transformer." is not the same as "240vac input 12 vdc output, 1 amp ...

 

[mm08822]

This is post #66. I said the same thing in post #3.

No you didn't>
"Is it 12VAC or 12VDC ? If AC, just buy a 240V/12V transformer." is not the same as "240vac input 12 vdc output, 1 amp ...

A transformer is not a power supply.

However, in post 4 the Cobbler suggested a power supply. I missed it as I was focused in the latter bs.

My post however also includes "how" (parts) to accomplish the what.

 

[teamextreme]

What the hell, I'll chime in too. I'm a former electrician with over 15 years experience and an electrical engineer with over 20 years experience and SevenHills, you are way off base and are arguing with several current sparkies that seriously know their stuff.

 

[mm08822]

What the hell, I'll chime in too. I'm a former electrician with over 15 years experience and an electrical engineer with over 20 years experience and SevenHills, you are way off base and are arguing with several current sparkies that seriously know their stuff.

and ee's.

he reminds me of Infinia. What a case he was. Still banned to this day!!

 

[alfredeneuman]

and ee's.

B-b-b-ut in another thread he says he's a retired electronic technician, and with his "background in Electronics Engineering" he knew far more than his electrician did.