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Preliminary discussion on a GALLERY INDEX - Need your input!

shopnut

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Preliminary discussion on a GALLERY INDEX - Need your input!

A thread over in the General forum prompted me to kick this off so here it goes. (Link to Thread)

I’ve been thinking about starting an index for a number of years now and I would be willing to put it together and maintain the master thread for it. This thread is being opened to get the members input on various things and then a second one will be started for the official Master Index after everything is figured out.

Moderators, before spending too much time on this, I would like some indication from you that the final index thread can be added as a “Sticky” if it turns out well, I don't want it to get buried down in the Gallery list as time goes by - what good is an index if no one can find it, anyway?

I've been on here for quite some time and have seen a lot of great places come and go, never to surface again. Many that I'm sure the new members here would love to see. I always thought it would be great to have a consolidated list to capture them forever for all to see.

HERE ARE MY INITIAL THOUGHTS:

1 – Invitation to Participate - All members wishing to be included in the Index will be asked to post a reply in the index thread with a link to their garage and a set of keywords to help categorize it. In their reply, they will also be encouraged to submit a couple of their favorite shop pictures so people just wanting to scroll down through this summary of builds can do so. If they see something interesting, the thread link will be right there in that reply to make it easy to jump to. I would love to add picture links in the top index, but unless the rules for the forum can be changed (at least the way I insert images), linking 100's this way will be nearly impossible.

2 – Master Index - These build links/keywords will be copied into a full index listing at the beginning of the thread. My goal is to keep each entry limited to one line for a nice concise list, but that may not be possible – I will be playing with the format in this thread until you folks give the thumbs up.

3 – Reserved Replies - The first 10 or 20 replies in the thread will be initially reserved for expansion of the Master Index List (note: each reply is limited to 10,000 characters and each link alone is about 100 characters so it burns replies up quickly). It might even be smart for another person to be a backup and reserve some of the early replies too, in case I get hit by a bus or something - the master list could live on!

4 – Categories – Initially, I think it might be best to start simple and have main categories based on overall size (square footage) of the garage. Examples are: under 200, 201-400, 401-600, 601-800, 801-1000, 1001 and above. I can get fancy later on and add more categories for garages with specific themes, architecture, or whatever. Replies are easy to edit, and I will be doing most of the work offline anyway. I would like your input on categories.

5 – Keywords – These will be used to help members find what they’re looking for. I will need a lot of input to figure this out before the official thread is launched. Falcon67 had some good suggestions in the other thread that I evolved into that shown below as a starting point for discussion. Besides giving the size of their garage, I will ask the members to pick from a list of keyword choices when submitting their garage to the index. This will make it easier to categorize and sort the bunch later on. Chances are, there will still be a few that don't fit and I will have to deal with that.

Type - Attached/Detached
Thread Build Type – Renovation, New construction
Construction Type - examples: Wood (stick) Frame, Metal, Pole, Concrete/Block, Other
Theme/Style – examples: Harley-Davidson, Gas/Oil, Retro, Modern
Primary Function – examples: General Use, Storage, Auto, Fab, Woodworking, etc.
User defined - any other words that will help describe their place

Again, I will need a lot of help defining the keywords.

6 – Other Related Links - Additional links could be provided to the other massive threads out there already like the "Motorcycle Garages Only" or "Let's See some 2 Car garages" threads. These are always fun to peruse.

7 – Historical Builds - I will try to go back and dig up as many buried threads as I can when time permits.

8 - Popular Threads - I really don't want to touch this topic with a ten foot pole, so instructions will be given for sorting the Gallery thread list on "Views" or "Replies". These sorts basically display up-to-date lists of the historically most popular threads over the years. (Yeah - no additional update work for me either!)

SO WHAT DO YOU THINK?
I'm hoping you folks give me lots of input so we can make this work for all of us. Ask questions if you don't understand anything I explained above. Tell me what types of things you try to search on right now and find difficult. Let me know if you would like to see this actually happen or if it is just a waste of time. All input is welcome.

I'm looking forward to hearing from all of you!
 
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UN4GTBL

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Good idea. Especially for members like me that haven't spent as much time on here and maybe missed some more awesome garages.

To the moderators/admin, if this site is like the sites that I am a moderator on, after the initial few posts are "reserved" by shop nut, you can delete them, so that they are hidden from view. That would make it a bit "cleaner" for others to look at. Then when needed, they can be un-deleted, and they maintain their low post number near the top of the thread.

Also, maybe make shopnut a section moderator, so that he can manage the deleted posts himself, if moderators/admin aren't able to be around much?

Just a couple ideas based off my experience.

For categories, can I suggest "One Car" "Two Car" "Three Car" and then for larger, go by square footage?
 

Omphaloskeptic

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Shopnut,

Man, are you ever a glutton for punishment! I mean you would be the sole worker for the army of architects designing a new 'Tower of Babel'. lol It is a great and noble task you want to take on, but oh what a headache it's going to be in setting it up.

When I purchase a 'reference' type of book, I always try to buy the one with the best (largest) index so I can find what I need when I need it. Making a dynamic forum index would be challenging to say the least! Building it so Joe Blow can find all the ways to make a widget, or a tool bench, or whatever without data mining techniques might be an insurmountable task. Maybe I'm over-analyzing the scope of the project, but for this forum, I tend to read for enjoyment and not necessarily historical reference.
 

Speedfreakbbc

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Shopnut,
I think this is a great idea! As Omphaloskeptic said I read these mostly for enjoyment but I do tend to pick up alot of ideas. I think it would be great to have an index for finding similar garages to mine. For example, I love the HUGE shops like yours and I am getting ideas for the future, but if I am looking for ideas on installing lights in my 3-car attached this would make it easy to just thumb through examples of 3-car attacheds. I don't know if anyone else would find it helpful but I would like to see the region that the garage is in (at least in the keywords). I enjoy looking at builds from all over but this could help for someone looking into construction. I have noticed many things in the foundations of the builds up north (and over seas) that would not apply to down south here. Thanks for taking this on and let me know if I can help.
 

vartz04

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I would also ad to the info a "car size" to it

1 car
2 car
3 car
4 car
undefined

or something like that. I know i search through stuff like that.
 

UN4GTBL

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You know, the other thing, is to just use the "tags" feature of the forums.
 
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shopnut

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Thanks for the input guys - I'm taking note of all of it.

I'm glad Jeff brought up the other types of buildings (vartz04 alluded to it as well with the "undefined"). Many of us think of garages in terms of how many cars will fit, and I was thinking along those lines with the ideas I originally listed in that other thread (I added a link up in post #1 for it, btw). Then I realized it didn't cover these other types of buildings so I gravitated towards thinking in terms of square footage because most people can still easily relate to that and it covers any type of place.

To be fair to everyone (including our friends using the metric system), how about something like these for the initial four main categories?

Under 300 SF (28 square meters), Typical 1-Car Size

301-500 SF (28-46 square meters), Typical 2-Car Size

501-800 SF (47-74 square meters), Typical 3-Car Size

Over 801 SF (74 square meters), Typical 4-Car and Larger Size


Based on the size info submitted by the owner, it will be easy for me to insert it in the appropriate SF category. Whether it is a barn, garage, basement, carport, or whatever, it won't matter. Even the member posting his scale model creations should have a spot (although, its likely they will be first on the list 1 or 2 SF :) )
 
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shopnut

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You know, the other thing, is to just use the "tags" feature of the forums.
Interesting. I added tags to my thread long ago. I remember 5 being the limit the thread starter can insert, but I have seen other threads with what appears to be tags from other members. Perhaps I can insert up to 5 in any thread? I never tried. I don't think many people use them, currently.

I'm not signing up for inserting tags in everyone's thread, but if we could get each owner to do it themselves based on some pre-defined lists, the tag searches (if that's how it works) might actually be useful.

Can anyone tell us more about tags?
 

jam0o0

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if you did this it would be a huge help. this forum has very little organization. that is great for getting to see things you wouldn't have thought of. but it does make it hard to find something you remember seeing.

many of the other forums i use have build lists would links to those be helpful?

please don' put pictures on the index. it makes it very hard to skim through it.

breaking it up by size seems like the best way. and using keywords for uses is good. as categorizing uses always ends up messy.
 

jlckmj

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I love the idea,
Another category might be the approximate cost to build per square foot if it was a new build.

Jim
 
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shopnut

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Let me address the other comments that came up so far:

UN4GTBL - It would be nice to temporarily hide the unused replies. Maybe the Mods can chime in and let us know if this is possible. If not, I had planned on having a link at the end of the Index that jumps them to the start of the individual member replies.

Omphaloskeptic - "Thank you sir, may I have another" comes to mind :). I think more time will be spent in this thread trying to figure out what everyone wants and how it should be formatted than actually doing it in the real thread. I plan for the members wanting to be in the Index to do most of the work for me. My job will be simple copy-paste actions and maybe a bit of sorting.

Speedfreakbbc - Adding a region or location is a great idea and will be worked in.

jeffmoss26 - If you don't remember how to use that tape measure, there is a whole Tool section to search on for instructions :). Seriously, I hope it will not be too much to ask for the SF value from the members. I'm not sure what to do if their thread is about a whole compound of buildings, however :dunno:. (OldCarGuy and Amazzen come to mind)

ebfabman - I'm still trying to figure out keywords that would cover the full range of places you see on here. This is probably the hardest part of this whole thing.

jam0o0 - Post up some links to these other forums that seem like they would be a good example. I would like to see what others are doing. I don't think the pictures are practical in the main list. I hope that members will submit a few pictures in their individual replies, however, below the main listing.

jlckmj - Interesting idea with the cost thing. They could tend to get outdated as the years go on, but maybe the owner also submits the year it was built as reference to keep it in perspective.

Speak up if I didn't capture your idea.

Keep them coming!
 
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shopnut

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Thanks. Good food for thought.

The first one is nice and clean, but I picture ours being very close to the third one having separate replies for the SF 1-Car/2-Car/3-Car categories, except with 1-line short description (keywords) following each link.

Here's a quick example of what my entry would look like (repeated a few times to give you a sense of what a list would look like):

Over 801 SF (74 square meters), Typical 4-Car and Larger Size

The ASYLUM - Happy 40th Birthday to Me!
.....1250 SF, New, Det, Pole, USA-FL, 2005, Barn, None, Auto/Motorcycle/General/Apt
The ASYLUM - Happy 40th Birthday to Me!
.....1250 SF, New, Det, Pole, USA-FL, 2005, Barn, None, Auto/Motorcycle/General/Apt
The ASYLUM - Happy 40th Birthday to Me!
.....1250 SF, New, Det, Pole, USA-FL, 2005, Barn, None, Auto/Motorcycle/General/Apt

The Blue text would be links. I'll explain what all the keywords mean in a bit.
 

Shoottx

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Let me address the other comments that came up so far:


jeffmoss26 - I'm not sure what to do if their thread is about a whole compound of buildings, however :dunno:. (OldCarGuy and Amazzen come to mind)

Keep them coming!

I was thinking "Holy Cow" (or some other less appropriate word) which is my typical response when stumbling on to these garages.

You could add the 1930' garage, the Pecan Baron's palace, the Hanger, the ranch in Wichita Falls, the Minimalist Garage in Manila, Nighttrains palace in Spring and several others to these spectacular builds.

I was thinking of a couple other criteria, Use of the garage, like a couple are commercial auto shops, some are fab shops, a few are wood shops, some are storage, museums. Of course you could go by styles, like the old gas station in Texas, 1950 Craftsman, etc etc.

What a great undertaking. I think if you started a draft list several others could add to the list.
 
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shopnut

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Proposed INDEX ENTRY FORMAT / KEYWORD DEFINITION

I envision instructions being listed in the first thread post telling members how to build up their index entry so they're all consistent and easy to scan through. Something like this will be given:

Index Entry Format (two lines):
<Thread Title> <Member Name>
<1>, <2>, <3>, <4>, <5>, <6>, <7>, <8>, <9>

Where the owner substitutes the appropriate values from the following:
<1> = *** SF - Size in square feet (including storage and office space)
.........*** SM - Size in square meters
<2> = New – New construction (new building in process or just recently finished)
.........Exist – Existing structure (including renovations and upgrades)
<3> = Att - Attached to house
.........Det - Detached or Standalone structure
<4> = Wood – Stick frame construction
.........Pole – Pole Barn
.........Metal – Metal building kit and similar
.........Conc – Poured Concrete or Concrete Block
.........Other
<5> = US-** (United States with state abbreviation)
.........CA-** (Canada with Province abbreviation)
.........Others should list abbreviated Country and region
<6> = XXXX - Year built (list approximate decade if not known)
<7> = XXXX - Style/Architecture (“None” if you don’t know)
<8> = XXXX - Theme (“None” if there is not one)
<9> = XXXX/XXXX/XXXX - Function (list various activities performed in building)

(Sorry, I had to use periods to tab the items over - still working on that.)
 
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tinbender 66

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I think those last ones have about the right amount of info. It needs to be kinda simple. Too much info or subdivisions and it will get messy in a hurry. I like that you included the type of construction (pole) also. The pole vs. stick question comes up a lot. If more people would index their own threads (like me haha) it would make further exploring much easier.
 
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KPSquared

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This is turning out awesome. . . Love the ideas so far. This is exactly what I was looking for, I just wasn't sure of the logistics.

Perhaps the threads that always inevitably get the "Mother of God" pic from Super Troopers should have their own category. . . like "You Wish" or at least a place of significance for the garages of real honor. . . (Here's looking at you Jack. . .)
 

Jarhead0408

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Who knows?
Lot of work going to be involved on this one but hats off to you shopnut.
Going to be nice to see this progress.
 
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shopnut

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A SAMPLE OF WHAT THE INDEX COULD LOOK LIKE

Again, I would like any input you guys have. I want this to work for all of us.

- I'm struggling with whether "Style" and "Theme" keywords are even worth having a separate keyword for - maybe they're something that can be added in the "Function" set at the end.

- I bolded every other keyword to help when scanning down the list. It's a little more work, but I think it's worth it since the columns will not be perfectly aligned like in a spreadsheet. Colors might even be better, but this is a little harder when it comes to the codes behind the scenes.

- I added the member's name right after the thread title along with the reply in the index thread where there entry was made. Not too sure the reply number really gains anything though.


********************** REPLY #1 ************************
This intro post will include instructions for:
- submitting an index entry of a build thread
- Sorting the gallery list on Views and Replies
- ???

It will list of the general threads in the Gallery like the:
- Motorcycle Garages Only
- Let's See some 2 Car garages
- Garages at Night

This might be a good spot for general tips for the new members like using Google to perform a site search within Garage Journal.

********************** REPLY #2 ************************
Under 300 SF (28 square meters), Typical 1-Car

My Backyard Garden Shed Project (GreenThumbGeorge) Reply#256
- 100 SF, New, Det, Wood, US-WI, 2006, None, None, Storage/Gardening
Bob’s Basement Retreat (RevellBob) Reply#102
- 220 SF, Exist, Att, Block, CA-ON, 1960, Basement, None, Scale Model Building
Seth’s Single Car (MiniCoopGuy) Reply#155
- 250 SF, Exist, Det, Wood, UK-GB, 1890, None, None, Auto
Randy’s Renovation Project (NostalgicGuy) Reply#212
- 275 SF, Exist, Att, Wood, US-AZ, 1985, None, None, Antique Restoration

********************** REPLY #3 ************************
301-500 SF (28-46 square meters), Typical 2-Car Size

Mike’s Motorcycle shop (TwinsForever) Reply#313
- 350 SF, New, Det, Conc, US-NY, 2008, Barn, Harley, Motorcycle Repair
Dieter’s Double in Deutschland (MotoNut) Reply#278
- 35 SM, New, Att, Conc, DE-BY, 1982, None, None, Motorbikes/Fab
Ted’s Twin Car in Tulsa (OldOKdude) Reply#167
- 425 SF, Exist, Att, Wood, US-OK, 2010, None, None, Pedal Car Restorations
Harry’s Hot Rod Heaven (FastHarry) Reply#196
- 450 SF, New, Det, Metal, US-SC, 1988, None, None, Auto Restoration
Freddie’s Fab Shop (SafetyFreak) Reply#126
- 480 SF, Exist, Det, Pole, US-PA, 2002, None, None, Roll-cage Fabrication

********************** REPLY #4 ************************
501-800 SF (47-74 square meters), Typical 3-Car Size

Sam’s “Surfs-Up” Shop (HangTenDude) Reply#234
- 520 SF, New, Att, Conc, US-HI, 2001, None, None, Surf Board Repair
Bill’s 24x30 Barn Build (Trailrunner) Reply#139
- 600 SF, New, Det, Pole, US-AK, 2012, None, None, Snowmobile

********************** REPLY #5 ************************
Over 801 SF (74 square meters), Typical 4-Car and Larger Size

Steve’s Storage Stable (DreamingMuscleGuy) Reply#263
- 920 SF, New, Det, Pole, CA-SK, 2009, None, Retro 1970’s, Musclecar Collection
The ASYLUM - Happy 40th Birthday to Me! (shopnut) Reply#121
- 1250 SF, New, Det, Pole, US-FL, 2005, Barn, None, Auto/Motorcycle/General/Apt
Calvin’s Colossal Shop in Cleveland (OhioCal) Reply#301
- 2500 SF, Exist, Det, Conc, US-OH, 2009, None, None, General
 
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Kevin54

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Sounds good to me. Well sounds great to me. But for you it'll probably be as painful as mashing your thumb with a hammer. :lol:

If you need any help, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you out. I imagine others would jump in also.
 

larry_g

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Another item to consider is Shop/Garage use. Auto repair, auto fab, restorations, machine shop, fab shop, woodshop, parking garage, party room... It would be nice to search for people who are doing similar things as I am doing in my building.

lg
no neat sig line
 

Falcon67

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All sounds good - Epic task shopnut. You'll want to capltalize the "NUT" in your ID :lol: . This could turn into a great reference and idea generator.
 

Omphaloskeptic

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Shopnut (aka Supreme Nerd), if you pull off this massive undertaking without needing an undertaker, I'll doff my cap to you sir! You could very well be treading in the footsteps of Google founders Sergey Brin and Larry Page.

:bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow:
 

Nuts

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From one Nut to another, great idea.

I'm pretty sure if most of us would look at our subscribed threads we could come up with several nominations for your list. My problem is that I have not saved near as many as I should have.

I would like to see a unique feature category section, your thread with some of your custom hand built items comes to mind. Jack of the Green Garage's Porsche lift. I'll think of more.

Nuts aka Doug
 
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shopnut

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Thanks for all the comments and support folks.

Shoottx - As I mentioned in the first post, I really don't want this to be a list of favorites. Inevitably, there will be members that believe their threads are just as good as those featured and will be pissed theirs weren't included. I will not be the one to decide this, nor do I want to be. The index list will be for everyone.

I mentioned the ones I did because they represent both a long-time and new member with a thread describing multiple buildings. There are many like this. One way to handle this is having them list the size of their main building or the one they do most of their work in :dunno: That's probably the one that most members are interested in anyway.

tinbender66 - Thanks for the input. We must have been typing at the same time. Let me know if my latest example got to "busy".
I was hoping we might see an index or two show up in some of the bigger build threads, but it never happened - oh well. My advice - the earlier you start one, the easier it is. Actually it's a nice walk down memery lane when I go back to get topics/reply numbers for the index update.

KPSquared - Thanks. People should know that it was your thread that re-ignited this idea in my head. As to the "Mother of God" list, maybe we need to work on Bull to update that Sticky up there.

Jarhead0408 - Thanks. Chime in with your suggestions.

Kevin54 - Thanks for the offer. Right now, I just need people to answer my questions when I can't figure out something (and I have more coming). Later I will need people that truly understand the format of the index to submit the initial build thread entries into the real Master Index thread. This will set good examples for the rest to follow.

larry_g - Thanks. The ninth keyword set <9> mentioned in Reply #20 was intended for the Shop/Garage use. I labeled it "Function", but "Use" sounds better. I think it would be great to have examples to pick from, such as you list. Of course they can add their own too.

Falcon67 - Thanks for the support. Yeah, pretty crazy undertaking. I hope it becomes useful for many.

Omphaloskeptic - I thought we agreed that name won't leave my build thread. Oh wait, maybe I didn't actually say that "out loud". :) I think Mrs. Shopnut's plan is going exactly as intended. (Sorry folks, inside joke if you don't follow the Asylum thread).

So did they lock Sergey and Larry up in an asylum yet?

Nuts - Thanks. As I said to Shoottx, I'm not real thrilled about singling out various threads - everyone's opinion will be different and I don't want to get into the middle of that battle.

BUT, a "unique feature" category sounds intriguing. It could be about any special feature someone has incorporated. Comments on this, anyone?
 
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Red Leader

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Wow shopnut, very ambitious project. I think it would be a great idea, simply for when I am talking about a specific garage on here with a really cool feature (thinking of 'the Bunker' or 'Garage Condo') but can't quite remember the thread or what it was called or even where it is.

I will sometimes want to show someone a really amazing garage, only to struggle to find it. This could really solve that problem.

If you get the green light, let me know how I can help.

Oh, and one other thing - for some reason, I've seen some incredible garage builds, but they are not in the 'Garage Gallery', they were created in the General Discussion. Those ones, unfortunately, get lost in some of the hussle and bussle of the main forum I feel. It would be great to showcase those as well. One example I'm thinking of is the '1933 Service Station...' thread by member 1948. Awesome build, but I feel it could get more attention in the gallery.

-RL
 

Shoottx

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Shoottx - As I mentioned in the first post, I really don't want this to be a list of favorites. Inevitably, there will be members that believe their threads are just as good as those featured and will be pissed theirs weren't included. I will not be the one to decide this, nor do I want to be. The index list will be for everyone.

I mentioned the ones I did because they represent both a long-time and new member with a thread describing multiple buildings. There are many like this. One way to handle this is having them list the size of their main building or the one they do most of their work in :dunno: That's probably the one that most members are interested in anyway.

Yup, I was just adding other to think about how you classify the builds. Think ya got it covered.

All is good!
 
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shopnut

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Red Leader - Thanks. I think most members will benefit from a concise list to scan down when searching for something. I would think that most times, you might remember the rough size of the place so that should get you in the general vicinity in the index to begin your search. Looking through pages and pages of Gallery lists (that keep changing order) is nearly impossible.

Having it sorted by size will help a newcomer look at similar sized places to their own and see how other people have laid out their work spaces.

Good point about those other threads placed, do I dare say, incorrectly in the General Garage section. Maybe we should work with the moderators to get them moved into the Gallery where they really belong.

Shoottx - I figured your intentions were good, like the rest of the folks making comments here. I just wanted to make it clear to everyone I’m just a “facts” guy - I’ll leave the commentary or ratings to the people in charge here or the members as a whole. I have my opinions just like everyone else and I’m not going to force feed mine to anyone via this index. I’ll be glad to include the results of some properly conducted member poll or something in the real index thread if people wish.

jam0o0 - Love the enthusiasm! (At least, that’s the way I took that comment). I have a few more items to iron out first and then we can look at going live!
 
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shopnut

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CONSTRUCTION TYPES - ARE THESE 5 ACCEPTABLE CHOICES?

Wood – Stick frame construction
Pole – Pole Barn
Metal – Metal building kit and similar
Conc – Poured Concrete or Concrete Block
Other

Let me know either way. Thanks in advance.
 
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Falcon67

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You left out plastic pipe w/tarps and airplane fuselages:D.

Seriously, everything is looking really good:thumbup:.

Well I think tarps, shipping containers and "Steelyard Blues" type construction would be covered under "OTHER" :lol:. Can't think of anything else for that.
 
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shopnut

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
4,237
Location
Florida
Moderators, before spending too much time on this, I would like some indication from you that the final index thread can be added as a “Sticky” if it turns out well, I don't want it to get buried down in the Gallery list as time goes by - what good is an index if no one can find it, anyway?

Any word yet from the mods on this one?

Well, in the other thread, Jack sounded positive about the index idea. Ryan chimed in with "I'm in", but it wasn't clear to me whether he was responding to the whole "Garage of the Month" topic that the thread started out as or the Gallery Index thing that it morphed into. I guess it depended on how closely he read the entire thread.

So Ryan (or any Mod), do we have the thumbsup on the index?
 

NASMAN

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
295
Location
Hills of Arkansas
There is all ready an excellent search engine on this forum. Works very well if you use the options to narrow down your search. Works even better if the poster adds tags to their thread. Due to the size of this forum, and the fact that it is constantly changing, it seems to us that it would be almost an impossible task to do as you suggest without changing the internal software.
 
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