preventing cam-out on Phillips screws

[BTL-A4]

I've been having issues with cam-out on Phillips head screws lately. After searching around a bit, I found this verbiage on toolguyd.com:

"...there are a multitude of screws that look like they are phillips head screws but in actuality are not. Posidrive, Recex, J.I.S., Frearson, not to mention the many variations of the Phillips brand, Phillips II, Phillips Square-Driv, Phillips Square-Driv 2, ACR Phillips, ACR Phillips Square-Driv, All look like they work with your standard Phillips screwdriver, but they don’t work well."

Does anyone have any recommendations for screwdrivers that are less likely to cam-out? I currently have US-made Craftsmans that I bought in the 90's. Seems like more and more, they don't really fit. I'm not sure I want to buy a bunch of different screwdrivers then hunt for the right one when I come across a fastener.

Thanks!

 

[jd_1138]

I've been trying to buy Torx fasteners the last decade or so -- much better holding power. They are available in like 4 common sizes, and most packs of fasteners will come with the correct size Torx bit, plus most of the bit sets will come with the various sizes.

 

[rlitman]

For all screws where insertion force is required to keep the tool in the socket (i.e. turning forces will cause the tool to rise), an impact driver is the #1 best way to prevent cam-out.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

IMO the cheapest option is usa made Williams with the black hard handles. High quality, low cost.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002NH5X2I/?tag=atomicindus08-20

One of a few packages they offer with various combinations.



I use Vessel for my JIS drivers for Japanese stuff (JIS works well on phillips as well in the cars since JIS expired). Vessel also makes a ball-grip driver, which is awesome. It looks odd, but you can put all your force right down onto the screw. I have a #2 phillips and flathead flipable blade model as my main home screwdriver. They do add a bit to the overall diameter of the tool though; but in home use it's great for digging into pained over hardware.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QK2V9X3/?tag=atomicindus08-20


_______________________

What applications do you need? What are you stripping out?

 

[dnschmidt]

Use a JIS screwdriver. Not only are they the bomb for Japanese screws they also work much better in normal Phillips screws as well. The Phillips screw was intentionally designed to cam out. It's a design feature.

 

[paulsomlo]

If you're using the common blue/clear hard handle Craftsman Philips drivers, do yourself a favor - toss them and get some good ones; PB Swiss and Vessel are what I have personal experience with, either is a much better choice.

 

[Dave455]

OP - what are you working on that gives you problems.

If you have a Pozidriv but don’t realise it, you will need a different driver. But, these are not common in the U.S. - you will probably only find them on British or European vehicles and equipment.

Pozidriv and JIS are fairly easy to recognise, by the extra ‘star’ marking, and a small dot, respectively!

If you have neither of these, then a better driver is probably the way to go. Any of those mentioned above..!

Snap On, and I think Zephyr, offer Phillips bits with “Anti Cam out Ribs”. These seem to help.

 

[Ilikeike]

Sometimes the tips just get worn,and don't hold as well as they once did.

 

[BTL-A4]

Thanks for the responses so far! I'm not trying to drive anything in particular; I've just noticed that my Phillips aren't cutting it anymore whenever I try to use them on anything. They are not worn, either. I've used an impact driver on wood screws and that works fine. It's when I'm dealing with fasteners that need to be turned by hand that I have issues.

I'd like to avoid Amazon because they don't police for fakes; I'd rather buy from a reputable tool seller or direct from the company. Vessel's website is a little funky and I can't seem to find information anywhere about where to buy.

I found the Williams set mentioned above at zoro.com, but they don't have the Vessels. Anybody got a source for the Vessels besides Amazon?

Any other brands for JIS? What about the German stuff?

 

[DHCrocks]

second the PBswiss and Vessel recommendations. One of those two screwdrivers will snugly fit a phillips. I usually try the PBswiss first and if that feels sloppy I'll grab the Vessel. I would say about 75% of the time the PBswiss fits great and 25% the Vessel.

 

[paulsomlo]

https://toollady.com/store/Screwdrivers-c15803515

 

[Mechanical Noise]

I'll second the suggestion to get JIS spec drivers. They work well for both Phillips and JIS screws, which is mostly what's around in the US. As an aside, I wish the stupid Phillips head screws would have faded away with the introduction of the superior JIS pattern but Phillips heads soldier on due to some sort of industrial inertia.

If you don't mind Harbor Freight, you could consider the Pittsburgh Pro or the Quinn screwdrivers. They're decent drivers, fit JIS screws well and are a good value for the money. I'd avoid the other HF screwdrivers, which range from mediocre to junky.

You could also consider getting a bit driver and an assortment of the oddball bits. The bits are usually quite good and easily replaced.

Then there's the old standby of putting some valve grinding compound on the driver tip to ensure a better grip. Usually works well.

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

I work on all continent built power tools, and I use Vessel screwdrivers specifically on phillips screws for this reason ( reduce cam out ), I believe they are JIS. I have complete sets of German made screwdrivers at hand, but I always grab the vessels for phillips, I learned that here years ago !

Good luck !

 

[CJM8515]

Vessel user here too. I LOVE them, they make it easy not to cam out phillips head screws. I got them because they work well on my japanese atvs and bikes. also, thye make a really need impact screwdriver that works-smack with a hammer and your good to go with it.

 

[dagofast]

An old machinist trick: Try putting a little dab of lapping compound on the end of your Phillips bit. It works surprisingly well on tough, high torque jobs.

 

[M6erfan]

Yup, Vessel. Been using them for decades.

Also, if you run in to stuck screws use a hand impact driver. Best money you've ever spent.

 

[Aqua-Andy]

OP - what are you working on that gives you problems.

If you have a Pozidriv but don’t realise it, you will need a different driver. But, these are not common in the U.S. - you will probably only find them on British or European vehicles and equipment.

.

Actually all GM and Chrysler (or whatever they call themselves these days) have Pozidriv screws.

 

[BTL-A4]

I could buy one of each of the Vessel, Williams and PB Swiss #2 Phillips and give them a try. Or, I could get a small set of maybe one brand. I'll wait and see if anyone else chimes in with other brand recommendations.

In any case, maybe it's time to get a new set of screwdrivers. I have the big C-Man set and don't really use the big ones that much. I use the #2 Philips and the 3/16" flat all the time and am tired of them not working as well as I think they should.

The Vessel ones are reasonably priced for the set of 4 that has what I use most of the time. You all seem to like them. I could keep the big C-Man ones for the few times I use them and add some of the smaller Phillips (I use #0, 1 a lot as well) and a few flat ones to round out a set. I'm just concerned I might not like the handles. They have "normal" handles as well. I'd like to find a retail store that has these so I can hold them.

BTW, I called Vessel Tools. I got a real live person and he told me he'd send me a list of distributors retailers. He told me that they have everything on Amazon with a few stores in LA, New York and San Francisco.

How are the flat bladed screwdrivers for these brands? My C-Man have a tendency to bend. I can bend them back, but it seems this should not happen in the first place. I've bent them twisting hard on stuck screws, too, and when prying (to be expected; I should use something else, but still...). I don't think the ends of these are hardened.

 

[GeoRoss]

Vessel. I find the JIS reduces cam out. If I can't do it by hand, I move to the impact driver before I mess up the screw head.

 

[Paul_The_Builder]

I like the Bosch Phillips/Square tips. They still work in regular phillips screws. They cam out less in my experience. I use them in a magnetic multi-driver.

 

[ZRX61]

An old machinist trick: Try putting a little dab of lapping compound on the end of your Phillips bit. It works surprisingly well on tough, high torque jobs.

Rubber band also works, just put it over the screw head & insert screwdriver.

 

[Wamsutta]

I think the most important thing is making sure you know which size Phillips head you're dealing with. There are at least 6 sizes of Phillips heads. #00 thru #4. A #6 screw size will more than likely take a #1 Phillips driver, but that pertains to machine screws. A drywall #6 screw will still take a #2 Phillips. A #8 and #10 machine screw will take a size #2 Phillips. A 1/4 inch machine screw will always take a #3 Phillips.

I despise cam-out and won't have it. I make sure my screwdriver fits the screw head perfectly. The two brands of screwdrivers that always seem to fit the best are Snap-on and Klein. Witte makes a good fitting Phillips, but I despise the hole they put through the handle.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Thanks for the responses so far! I'm not trying to drive anything in particular; I've just noticed that my Phillips aren't cutting it anymore whenever I try to use them on anything. They are not worn, either. I've used an impact driver on wood screws and that works fine. It's when I'm dealing with fasteners that need to be turned by hand that I have issues.

I'd like to avoid Amazon because they don't police for fakes; I'd rather buy from a reputable tool seller or direct from the company. Vessel's website is a little funky and I can't seem to find information anywhere about where to buy.

I found the Williams set mentioned above at zoro.com, but they don't have the Vessels. Anybody got a source for the Vessels besides Amazon?

Any other brands for JIS? What about the German stuff?

Toolpan and JB tool have vessel. Ebay too.

And moss miata:

https://mossmiata.com/2016-2020-mx-5-miata/garage-car-care/garage-tools


I haven't used these guys, but google spits them out:

https://rhinotools.com.au/product/jis-vessel-screwdriver-set/

https://www.vesseltools.com/handtools/screwdrivers


The "Impacta" is a thin profile impact driver. Super cool and can save you in tight places. Obviously it doesn't replace a real impact driver.

 

[m6z]

Vessel

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[nmk_61802]

Wera laser cuts work great when new, they do eventually wear out though. New, they will hold a screw in place upside down like they are magnetic

 

[pizza]

another vote for vessel (JIS) or pb swiss

 

[ThePostman]

Mechanic servicing most vehicles, vessel Impacta for the win. Kid 2 bays down was trying to pull injectors on a 92 240sx. Started stripping them out. Used the impact part of the impactas for the first time, saved the day. Got them off eBay, new. Toolninja or something close to that

 

[SeisMec]

The Phillips screw was intentionally designed to cam out. It's a design feature.

Sounds entirely possible. But have you got a source?

 

[trainer]

Sounds entirely possible. But have you got a source?

Its mentioned in a patent granted to The American Screw co.

https://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?docid...1=2474994.PN.%26OS=PN/2474994%26RS=PN/2474994

 

[tym]

Chapman Mfg

 

[HenryAZ]

I like the Bosch Phillips/Square tips.

Even the Bosch "R" series without the square tip work well. The "R" in the part number means reduced size. The width of the bit is the same as the opening in the screw head, which makes them seat fully and provide a firmer grab on the Phillips head.

 

[brtsvg]

another vote for vessel (JIS) or pb swiss

Agreed. Do yourself a favor and get the P1 and P2 versions of each. You will never buy or use another big-box store screwdriver again.

 

[dubdoc]

Why anyone would ever use a Phillips screw when a Robertson one would do, is beyond me. GET AWAY FROM PHILLIPS !!!

 

[finn]

Why anyone would ever use a Phillips screw when a Robertson one would do, is beyond me. GET AWAY FROM PHILLIPS !!!

Agree. Ditch the Phillips and replace all those obsolete **** fasteners with Torx.

I still find straight blade/slot screws occasionally when doing projects. Ticks me off when I run into them.

 

[SeisMec]

Its mentioned in a patent granted to The American Screw co.

https://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?docid...1=2474994.PN.%26OS=PN/2474994%26RS=PN/2474994

Thanks. Great find. Two paragraphs (left column lines 36-72) is a mention.

 

[rlitman]

If you're using the common blue/clear hard handle Craftsman Philips drivers, do yourself a favor - toss them and get some good ones; PB Swiss and Vessel are what I have personal experience with, either is a much better choice.

The blue/clear Craftsman drivers are minimally acceptable with a non-JIS standard Phillips head that's in perfect shape, assuming you have the right size driver. But they're still soft as cheese.

I think the most important thing is making sure you know which size Phillips head you're dealing with. There are at least 6 sizes of Phillips heads. #00 thru #4. A #6 screw size will more than likely take a #1 Phillips driver, but that pertains to machine screws. A drywall #6 screw will still take a #2 Phillips. A #8 and #10 machine screw will take a size #2 Phillips. A 1/4 inch machine screw will always take a #3 Phillips.

I despise cam-out and won't have it. I make sure my screwdriver fits the screw head perfectly. The two brands of screwdrivers that always seem to fit the best are Snap-on and Klein. Witte makes a good fitting Phillips, but I despise the hole they put through the handle.

I've seen Phillips as small as 0000, but you're right in as much as using the wrong size driver is as bad as using the wrong type (i.e. a #1 Phillips in a #2 screw is as bad as a #2 Phillips in a PZ2 screw).

 

[CoogarXR]

I also switched to JIS and am loving it. I bought the Sunflag set from Japan, just because I wanted them to match my Xcelite collection, lol:

 

[gnpenning]

As mentioned making sure you use the right type for the screw.

Years ago when I was starting out in the auto industry I had craftsman and would round out the head on occasions. One of the guys I worked with kept telling me to buy snap on, I would ignore him. One day after rounding one out he came over with his snap on Phillips and loosened it, he later did it a 2 time. I bit the bullet and bought a snap on set never regret it, cam outs went to pretty much zero.

 

[Rabid Badger]

When I have a phillips driver that cams out I clamp it in a vise and knock 0.5-0.75mm off the tip with a file. Hit it lightly with a wire wheel to get rid of any burrs and viola, instantly improved fastener engagement.

 

[gnpenning]

That's because Snap-On Instinct handles have a vapor blasted tip with ACR (anti-cam out ribs)

https://www.snapon.com/Industrial-Education/Tool-Offering/Hand-Tools/Screwdrivers.htm

They didn't have those in the late 70s. Nice link.