Propane shortage? Anyone having problems?

[Dick in Wisconsin]

The Milwaukee area TV stations and newspaper have been running stories about a shortage of propane. Prices up, many customers on allocation.

Anyone hearing that in your areas?

 

[anthony666]

The Milwaukee area TV stations and newspaper have been running stories about a shortage of propane. Prices up, many customers on allocation.

Anyone hearing that in your areas?

any excuse to jack the price .. what are they blaming it on, polar vortex ??

 

[p_mori7]

Same here.

Started back in December, when southern Ontario had the big ice storm and many areas were without power for up to 10 days. Apparently a propane plant was affected by the loss of grid power, and it really set back production & delivery.

After that was the extreme cold snaps that hit most of the US & Canada which caused demand to go way up.

I called my supplier last week, price was $1.03 / liter.

That comes out to $3.90 a gallon delivered.

 

[mygarageone]

We are @ just shy of $6.00 a gallon and they are saying it's because of the corn farmers using so much gas to dry corn for Ethanol , what a ********* joke.
We can only get a couple hundred gals at a time right now.

 

[MScott]

I thought it rather unusual that a few days after I received a letter from my propane supplier telling me that there was a shortage and that there might be delays in tank filling, their truck pulled into my driveway and they filled my tanks. I don't use a lot of propane since I installed my outdoor wood furnace so the tank was at 75% before they came. I thought I was on a "call if you need a fill" arrangement.

 

[mygarageone]

I am thankful we have a great pellet stove , it saves us money.

 

[CARS]

April-May 2013 $1.22 a gallon

Dec 20th 2013 $2.02 a gallon

Jan 20th 2014 $2.52 a gallon. While I was in the office the call came through to raise it to $2.75 a gallon.

Jan 24th 2014 $4.78 a gallon.

The two Co-Ops I deal with aren't rationing yet, but a 3rd in the area is limiting to 100 gallons.

Funny, every time I need LP they always told me it was a 200 gallon minimum!

So fine, a pipeline is shut down. Why no warning??? For what I spent on the 20th for LP I could have bought a cheap electric boiler and tied it in with my LP boiler! I suppose electric rates will be next

 

[jdieter]

Northern Indiana, $5/gal. maximum 200gal and only if urgent, no top-offs. And I just switched furnace from fuel oil do to high price vs. cheaper gas this summer.

 

[rvr6000]

Buddy of mine said a co-worker of his just paid almost $5.00/gallon. The tank up at our cabin is gonna need more soon but I think I'll be draining it down for the remainder of the winter.

 

[moto367]

exports...that burns me. Also, why don't the farmers let nature do most of the work before using the driers?

 

[rodm1]

Wow some high prices! What month is usually the cheapest for the year?

 

[TractorJeff]

Farmers don't control the weather. Areas that used propane to dry Corn was due to wetter than normal Fall weather!
Personally, I'm bummed because my tanks were down, I'll TRYto ride out this out till Spring before refilling.
Thats what happens when you don't stay on top of the News!

 

[rvr6000]

Just called my buddy at the Co-Op up home (Siren, WI).....$4.80/gallon and they are rationing it out. I'm draining the cabin down this week. But I'm lucky I have that option....feel bad for the folks that have no other options.

 

[Fueler]

Local supplier tried to blame it on the farmers also. I told him ********. Come up with something better. You know every year to the gallon how much they use. It's not like there is a sudden gold rush on farm start ups and corn drying.

 

[CARS]

I was talking to the coop manager as I was handing him the check, trembling...

He stated that they are blaming it on drying too. Fall of 2011 and 2012 the crop was too dry and drying wasn't needed. I wonder if that isn't why they cut production. You know, make up a shortage to make up some coin.

To the guy wondering why they don't let mother nature take care of drying. Today farmers are using genetically modified seed that I am sure has a window of opportunity for peak production. Add that to the fact that most farmers these days farm thousands of acres instead of my grandpas hundred acres, you need to get out in the field asap and git er done. my 2c

 

[LennyTheLizard]

I read the blame in local newspaper as too many exports. The Missouri Attorney General is investigating a couple companies for price gouging. But we'll probably never hear another word about it.

 

[Shop Specialties]

Here in Montana I paid $ 2.44/gal last week which was $1.00/gal higher than last year at this time. The price started going up when temps were -20* in early Dec. We do not have any shortages here but people are worried the propane companies will start jacking the price just because of what is going on in the Midwest and East coast.

 

[Xtrom]

We got a call about midnight last night to turn our thermostat down to 60 degrees from the natural gas provider. Apparently a pipeline has burst in Canada. It never ends. There are pictures of empty shelves where electric heaters were once located as the population outside of town that doesn't have the natural gas option are stocking up.

 

[D.J.]

Work for a Co-Op been real busy this week. Putting in 200 gallons in all 500 gal tanks, price increase three times this week hope you all had signed a contract this year. P.S. try not to piss off your delivery guy!

 

[sprntpshr]

Found this the other day while reading an article from Bloomburg News thru gcaptain.com. Lots of coin being made shipping propane, butane and NGL (natural gas liquids) to Asia and Europe in 2013 and still going on.

""A net importer of LPGs until 2010, the U.S. exported a record 427,000 barrels a day in October, more than twice as much as a year earlier, the latest Energy Department data show. Total NGL exports surged 105 percent to 678,000 barrels a day, according to the department’s figures.

The profit from trading one 46,000-ton propane cargo from Houston to Europe is about 20 cents a gallon, or $5 million, based on market prices and the freight and terminals costs, Phillips 66’s James said in the Dec. 12 presentation. For butane, the profit is 61 cents a gallon, or $15 million. Shipping a cargo to Asia makes about 21 cents a gallon, or $5 million, for propane and 77 cents a gallon, or $17 million, for butane, according to the presentation.""

Credit to Bloomberg for the article.....

 

[danv]

I heard on the news here a while back a local (ontario)had run out of propane between Christmas and new years and was 6 days without heat. Got the run around from his contracted supplier. No one was notified about the shortage till people started to run out. I heard the shortage had to do with a lot of propane going south to run the corn driers as they had a particularly wet season this year. What burns my $^(^# is why the price goes up so much. Just gouging as far as I am concerned. No one is going out and using more propane than they have to so why the big problem. Maybe a planned shortage to jump the price. Sorry just my conspiracy loaded mind playing with me hear.

 

[tdkkart]

The corn was all dried here 2 months ago..........try another excuse people.

 

[walrus]

Europe pays much higher prices for propane so the glut in the US market headed over there, then we had a real winter and oops no more glut and the price went up. In Maine its a real issue supplies are very tight, the railroad ***** in getting it here so suppliers are hurting and then so are customers

 

[tdkkart]

They were talking shortage here during harvest this fall. At the time there was talk about it being not so much a supply shortage as a delivery bottleneck caused by all the infrastructure being used up by the North Dakota oil fields.

Who knows, but limiting delivery amounts to people that had contracted prices is sure to raise some eyebrows at the statehouse. Sounds like price fixing to me.

 

[Farmall450]

exports...that burns me. Also, why don't the farmers let nature do most of the work before using the driers?

By then prices are low.

 

[jomobco]

That's what happens when the government dictates energy policy instead of the free market.

http://www.businessinsider.com/propane-shortage-2014-1

It's the free market which caused this. A sound energy policy would have reserves for this type of situation and not be shipping all of our domestic product overseas for higher prices and higher corporate profits. A sound policy might also help diversify us from being so reliant on a single commodity. I didn't see anything in your link related to energy policy though.

It's simple supply and demand at work.

 

[Rickcnc]

It's all my fault... I spent a year trying to decide how to heat my shop, Had a propane heater installed in Sept.. now the price has gone through the roof.
Had I selected Wood or electric... I bet there wouldn't be a shortage


Sept 1. I paid 403.00 to fill two 420 lb tanks. (not sure how many liters that is)

The supplier was out Nov 1 to fill the tanks.. did need any

Dec 1st they filled the tanks.. total 127.1 Liters at $0.69

One tank reads 35% the other 55% (is this normal or is there a gauge problem) I'm hoping this will last me the rest of the season.

 

[Chetter]

Here in Northern Ohio when I went to fill my 40lb tank price jumped a lot and they were rationing how much they would give their customers to 100 gals. All energy companies raise their prices and the consumers don't have a choice, they know they have to pay it. Look at what the gas retailers do, I've been standing there filling my tank and the price will have changed upwards by 10-30 cents a gallon and sometimes a couple of times a day. Consumers will never get a break as long greedy energy companies are allowed to continue these practices. JMO...

 

[ishiboo]

Filled my 1000 gallon and 120 gallon tanks in November for 1.79/gal, won't have to worry about refilling unless something goes very wrong!

Stay warm all!

 

[tdkkart]

exports...that burns me. Also, why don't the farmers let nature do most of the work before using the driers?

Most years if you let the corn stand long enough to dry far enough to store it would still be in the fields getting snowed on.

 

[Fueler]

exports...that burns me. Also, why don't the farmers let nature do most of the work before using the driers?

We will forgive you that you don't know how that works. Up until the late 60s most corn was harvested as a complete ear and stored in Cribs. Cribs, most of which are a memory now, are those barn looking structures with gaps between the siding to let the air come through and dry the corn. Very slow process. Farmers generally sold some at harvest to pay the bills and cribbed the rest hoping the price would go up.

These days all corn is shelled and the kernals sold off or stored in the round metal bins with propane fuel hot air blowing through them.

Wet corn won't sell or sells for way less than dry corn. That's the real reason behind the conspiracy.

 

[jnyost]

Wet corn will rot and mold also.

I'm happy that I'm on a yearly contract that renews every year in August. Luckily they just filled my tank the end of November. Hopefully it'll last long enough for the strain to lift so I'm not adding to the strain.

 

[NASTYZEN]

Oh ****. I just checked my tanks and there at 10%..

 

[Randy in Maine]

This from Wikipedia is pretty accurate....

"Propane is produced as a by-product of two other processes, natural gas processing and petroleum refining. The processing of natural gas involves removal of butane, propane, and large amounts of ethane from the raw gas, in order to prevent condensation of these volatiles in natural gas pipelines. Additionally, oil refineries produce some propane as a by-product of cracking petroleum into gasoline or heating oil. The supply of propane cannot easily be adjusted to meet increased demand, because of the by-product nature of propane production. About 90% of U.S. propane is domestically produced. The United States imports about 10% of the propane consumed each year, with about 70% of that coming from Canada via pipeline and rail. The remaining 30% of imported propane comes to the United States from other sources via ocean transport.

After it is produced, North American propane is stored in huge salt caverns. Examples of these are Fort Saskatchewan, Alberta; Mont Belvieu, Texas and Conway, Kansas. These salt caverns were hollowed out in the 1940s, and they can store 80,000,000 barrels (13,000,000 m3) or more of propane. When the propane is needed, much of it is shipped by pipelines to other areas of the United States. Propane is also shipped by truck, ship, barge, and railway to many U.S. areas."

 

[D.J.]

Their is also a little known pipeline that runs from Texas to the East Coast. It is nown as the Texas Eastern pipeline now Tepco that runs thru a bunch of little towns like Norris City IL and so forth. This pipeline transports various products lie diesel fuel, all grades #2, #3 #4 etc gasoline all grades lp gas have heard that they also push coal slurry through it but don't know if that is factual or not, maybe someone that wors for them could post up some info. Oh and as a side note rumor has it someone around here harvested some corn last week and it was still at 19% moisture and it needs to be about 15% moisture to get a fair price for it. This high moisture is a combination of various factors incluing lots of moisture in the fall as well as application of fungicide that makes the stalks of the plants greener and stronger longer which keeps the plants standing longer so they can be harvested later in the growing season or beond. This is how I understand it.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

for once I actually did something right.

last may i pre-purchased 1000 gallons for $1.49/gal.

filled my 500 gallon tank in june and when it came time to fill it before winter instead of using my pre-buy because i knew i would need at least another 300 gals to make it thru the winter, i went out and got the best price i could find ($1.79/gal) and filled the tank with that..............now I have enough gas left to last me till may, but wait the way this winters going come may it'll probably still be in the single digits.

I try not to buy any gas in the winter, been there before and it ain't fun

 

[moto367]

I was talking to the coop manager as I was handing him the check, trembling...

He stated that they are blaming it on drying too. Fall of 2011 and 2012 the crop was too dry and drying wasn't needed. I wonder if that isn't why they cut production. You know, make up a shortage to make up some coin.

To the guy wondering why they don't let mother nature take care of drying. Today farmers are using genetically modified seed that I am sure has a window of opportunity for peak production. Add that to the fact that most farmers these days farm thousands of acres instead of my grandpas hundred acres, you need to get out in the field asap and git er done. my 2c

While there may be truth to that I don't doubt. But what irks me is the fact that these farmers are getting subsidies (my neighbor gets $900k+/yr) and they have crop insurance. I still believe they can let the corn dry naturally longer than they are. So the rest of us end up paying for it in the end one way or another.

 

[jnyost]

While there may be truth to that I don't doubt. But what irks me is the fact that these farmers are getting subsidies (my neighbor gets $900k+/yr) and they have crop insurance. I still believe they can let the corn dry naturally longer than they are. So the rest of us end up paying for it in the end one way or another.

I help my father farm and can tell you that you cannot always let it dry naturally. Obviously farmers do let it dry as much as they can in the fields but there are other things to consider.

- You have to get into some fields while you can. Due to ground conditions, etc, you may have to pick when less than optimal.
- Letting all crops get to optimal moisture content would be like trying to get 2 months worth of harvesting done in 1 week. You have to spread it out so that means some might get picked a bit early.
- Leaving it in the fields too long damages crops. The longer it sits in the field the more likely it is to be knocked down and damaged.
- You can't pick while it's snowing or if there is too much snow on the corn. Snow plugs up the combine, which is why you may have to start early.

Farmers don't necessarily WANT to dry their crops. It's wasted money to them too. Any money spent on propane for drying is coming right off the top. Sometimes it's a choice between paying a little for some propane to dry your corn or losing a big % of yield for some of your crops.

Over last several months (year) we've seen corn go from about $8 a bushel to $4 a bushel. It costs the same to plant it and harvest it so their profit is A LOT less. They're not wasting money just to do it.

 

[jdieter]

It's the free market which caused this. A sound energy policy would have reserves for this type of situation and not be shipping all of our domestic product overseas for higher prices and higher corporate profits. A sound policy might also help diversify us from being so reliant on a single commodity. I didn't see anything in your link related to energy policy though.

It's simple supply and demand at work.

Can somebody explain a 200+% increase when the cost to manufacture or distribute has not seen that jump. I get rationing do to a shortage. But this much of an increase when supply/demand gets out of balance escapes me. Who is raking in this disproportionate profit? What additional 200% cost increase in the production/distribution occurred? I'd like the simple answer to the simplicity of supply and demand at work. If the manufacturing and distributing sectors are working 120 hours a week (a 200% jump) why do we have a shortage?

 

[NASTYZEN]

Just got filled up at $0.95 a Liter + 5 bucks for delivery..
691.5L $661.93 before taxes. Taxes are another 14.975%...
I keep both shops at 16C. I think I may turn them down a little further.