Propane shortage? Anyone having problems?

[lmalcomb]

Filled up today at $2.299/gallon .

 

[D.J.]

Imalcomb: Surely you had a contract?

 

[mlcharlestonsc]

No blue Rhino refills here in SC.

 

[RedBKM]

No blue Rhino refills here in SC.

Same here in Virginia. Small tank top heaters and tanks were wiped out a few weeks ago when we hit -5F and everybody had frozen pipes.

On the bright side... I can get $100 for a delivered load of split firewood. I wish I would have bought all the cheap wood stoves last spring and held them. A good Fisher or Englander is going for $500 and up on CL

 

[Highbeam]

Can somebody explain a 200+% increase when the cost to manufacture or distribute has not seen that jump. I get rationing do to a shortage. But this much of an increase when supply/demand gets out of balance escapes me. Who is raking in this disproportionate profit? What additional 200% cost increase in the production/distribution occurred? I'd like the simple answer to the simplicity of supply and demand at work. If the manufacturing and distributing sectors are working 120 hours a week (a 200% jump) why do we have a shortage?

A product is worth what people are willing to pay. Why do you think the price of anything fluctuates from day to day? Gasoline, groceries, oil? LPG is still mid 2$ per gallon here in the PNW.

 

[Baclay9]

Just paid $3.40 a gal today in central OK.

 

[jomobco]

Can somebody explain a 200+% increase when the cost to manufacture or distribute has not seen that jump. I get rationing do to a shortage. But this much of an increase when supply/demand gets out of balance escapes me. Who is raking in this disproportionate profit? What additional 200% cost increase in the production/distribution occurred? I'd like the simple answer to the simplicity of supply and demand at work. If the manufacturing and distributing sectors are working 120 hours a week (a 200% jump) why do we have a shortage?

Increased pricing usually decreases demand. People usually conserve. The ones who invested in propane "just in case" are now reaping the rewards of their investment (both wholesalers/producers and end users). Next summer you should buy a huge tank, fill it with propane at a summer rate and then pray you need it next winter so all your cash isn't ******* in something that's not being used. I honestly feel for you but it's a sellers market right now.

 

[irregardless]

Glad we're hooking into a natural gas well on the farm... I figured the propane would have been long gone over a month ago. We just use it for the stove and a fireplace, so we don't need it.

But once we get hooked up it will be on 24/7 and our main source of heat. (not to mention a nice furnace in the garage as well)

Everyone I called wanted me to get 200 gal (~$3.25) and $X00 deposit BS... screw that. I'll use a Mr. Heater for a month before I waste that kind of money.

 

[mygarageone]

And you don't think using high priced 20# cylinders will be exspensive ? The actual cost will even be higher per gallon.

 

[jdieter]

A product is worth what people are willing to pay. Why do you think the price of anything fluctuates from day to day? Gasoline, groceries, oil? LPG is still mid 2$ per gallon here in the PNW.

So the gas prices drop because of massive gas reserves tapped do to fracking. The gas companies decide to sell more over seas because of better prices than domestically. Then we have a good grain producing year and a bad winter. So the line consumers are given is a perfect storm and the prices go up 200%. Well this isn't the first time we have record a grain harvest or the first time we have unusually sever winters or the first time the two have coincided, and never before have LP prices jumped 200%. The gas companies created the shortage by selling overseas at the expense of the US consumer to increase their profit margin by 200%. A 200% jump is not a fluctuation.

 

[tdkkart]

Simple solution to this, put in some electric baseboard heaters, once LP hits approx. $3/gallon turn off the furnace and turn on the baseboards. My electric for my shop was just over 10 cents/KW delivered last month, which equals out to about $2.90/gallon propane.

 

[tdkkart]

A 200% jump is not a fluctuation.

Correct, 30 cents is a fluctuation, $4 is a F&*king that we don't have to put up with.
People on contracts here are paying $1.50-1.75, those without contracts are paying as much as $5.50. This **** should be a felony.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

I called yesterday to check on my 310 gallons i have left from my 2013 pre-buy, and she said not worry.
also i asked what the going rate was at the moment and she said 3.94/gal....wow
she said it was because they are sending trucks to texas to pick it up and thats why.

after i got off the phone i thought, how do they get the gas here usually?
isn't it by trucks?..........anybody know?

 

[lametec]

after i got off the phone i thought, how do they get the gas here usually?
isn't it by trucks?..........anybody know?

Probably by train to a closer depot, then trucked from there. So instead of driving 100 miles to get propane, they now drive 1300 miles each way.

I still have over 700 gallons left that I paid $1.45/gal for, so I'm good. I've used just under 400 gallons so far this winter.

 

[sourdough]

Hello!

Newbie here. I have been reading many posts here for over a year and have learned much from them.

I didn't know if I should post here or on another thread:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=234138

I live in rural SW WA State and just got a 125 gal delivery @$3.64/gal delivered plus ~9.5% state/local sales taxes for $509.32 from CENEX: . That is by far the highest I have ever paid for propane here. Last delivery was 2 months ago at $2.94/gal. "Normal" past prices have averaged $2.60/gal over the past 5 years. We use it for heating (forced air), hot water, and cooking stove/range in a 2100' ranch home (well insulated/built 2007). The garage/shop is not heated.

I shudder to read that some of you folks are paying ~$5.00-$6.00/gal!

We use propane as our fuel source because we can't depend upon the electric power as a constant since we have many winter windstorms here near the Pacific coast (trees/branches/powerlines down) and have a 5600w gasoline generator wired into the house electrical system to supply power in the interim for the furnace, refrigeration units, and lights. I have amassed a spare-parts collection for all of the things that could go South for the furnace ($750). Many of the homes here rely on electric baseboard radiant heat with a woodstove backup. We lived in Alaska for 35 years prior to our retirement and my wife wants nothing more to do with the wood heat mess, so that's where I am at for backup. I am a retired HVAC/refer mechanic and would rather do my own repairs than pay beaucoup bucks to a contractor who may not have as much experience as I have.

In contrast, our electric bill is $85-$90 every 2 months, even in summer when we run our large LG (15,000 BTU/120V/13A) window A/C unit (it has run flawlessly for 5 summers with minimal maintenance) in conjunction with the furnace fan for air distribution. Not as nice a spendy heat pump-A/C but it suffices nicely when the outside temps are 90+* and MUCH cheaper to install/replace at ~$400 for the unit.

Thanks to all who have posted about various heat, A/C, vent, electrical, and lighting issues. As this is a Garage forum, I don't see much insofar as plumbing/septic issues. I would like to share such wonderful problems (or, as a previous boss put it, "opportunities") with others here.

This is a very good forum.

Jim

 

[mygarageone]

I called yesterday to check on my 310 gallons i have left from my 2013 pre-buy, and she said not worry.
also i asked what the going rate was at the moment and she said 3.94/gal....wow
she said it was because they are sending trucks to texas to pick it up and thats why.

after i got off the phone i thought, how do they get the gas here usually?
isn't it by trucks?..........anybody know?

I was told the same thing , they have to drive long distances to get it.
Hench ,the cost to me of $ 6.00 a gal.

 

[mygarageone]

Correct, 30 cents is a fluctuation, $4 is a F&*king that we don't have to put up with.
People on contracts here are paying $1.50-1.75, those without contracts are paying as much as $5.50. This **** should be a felony.

That's how written contracts work , they guaranty pricing at the current rate . Most times it works out for them but this time they are eating Hugh losses from it.

 

[rodm1]

What month is usually the best summer rate price? I need to fill up this summer and would like an idea when to do it.

 

[dmftoy1]

Here in IL its last week of June, first week of july

 

[KANSASBOY]

I'm glad i signed a contract back in July for 900 gals. 1.84 $.

 

[laser3kw]

Propane and propane products

 

[A_Pmech]

Propane and propane accessories!!!

Fixt!

 

[PastTense]

That's how written contracts work , they guaranty pricing at the current rate . Most times it works out for them but this time they are eating Hugh losses from it.

They shouldn't be eating huge losses. What they should be doing is buying propane futures contracts at the time of the summer fill period which will lock in their prices. I suppose a few (like consumers) don't.

 

[Kingcreek]

I just got another 500 gal last week for $2.09 in Illinois. No locked in contract price and I'm on a keep full account. It was $1.96 in December and $1.74 in November. My supplier is a small family owned company that does mostly farm and some residential but they try to anticipate demand and lock in their supply in futures. They are in a position to gouge us but they never have. Normally I could get by until a late spring or early summer top off but the winter just won't quit. -19 here this morning.

 

[nutjob]

Just got 68 gallons $5.38 a gallon here in southern CT.

No contract but I do not own the 120 gal tank so I have to buy from the propane company that did install. I do not use enough in a year to purchase the tank and than shop around for best price.

Kevin

 

[Dragster Racer]

Some of you guys are going to hate me. $1.45/gallon Northern Illinois. No contract, but all existing customers get this price. New customers pay what market price is.

 

[Shop Specialties]

The 3 refineries we have in Billings said not to worry about a shortage since they can easily keep up with demand BUT they were more than happy to jack the price. I was told yesterday by my supplier that the price is now $4.00/gal.

 

[walrus]

That's how written contracts work , they guaranty pricing at the current rate . Most times it works out for them but this time they are eating Hugh losses from it.

They aren't losing, they bought futures contracts for a set price to fulfill any contracts they had with retail customers

 

[mygarageone]

They aren't losing, they bought futures contracts for a set price to fulfill any contracts they had with retail customers

Unless they are a smaller supplier and the projected use based on previous history changes , then they lose.
Who could have accurately , projected this long extremely cold winter we are having ? Where I live , they can not predict weather accurately at all because we are surrounded by the Great Lakes.

 

[Fueler]

Some of you guys are going to hate me. $1.45/gallon Northern Illinois. No contract, but all existing customers get this price. New customers pay what market price is.

East Central IL. supplier is FS Farm Supply
Geeze, It was a $1.85 here......in the summer. $2.52 Jan 8. Last I heard it was $5.00 and rising. Needless to say I am conserving like a mad man to make it to warm weather.

I wasn't buying their excuses and someone needs fired. I told them that they better be kissing **** price wise come summer or I'm changing companies after 30 yrs.
FWIW 6 years ago it was $0.77. Ahhh, the good ole days.

 

[casetractorfarmer]

How does this shortage affect the prices of 20lb tanks

 

[TractorJeff]

Called "TSC" (Tractor Supply Company) the other day about filling a 20 pound tank.
She said $4.89 a gallon.
I said, OK Thanks!

 

[jvitez]

How does this shortage affect the prices of 20lb tanks

Cheapest propane tank fill around here is Costco. Last summer was $8.99 CDN for a 20 lb tank. Yesterday it was $14.99. It's been so cold here I've barely been in the garage so barely used any heat, so my propane and kerosene supply will more than last the rest of the winter, thankfully.

 

[mygarageone]

Our prices just went down $1.00 a gallon. Now it,s only $4.99 a gallon.

 

[mygarageone]

Here's my prediction. Because the gov won't do anything about the current prices , we will be seeing this stay this way just like gasoline has not come down.

 

[Dragster Racer]

Here's my prediction. Because the gov won't do anything about the current prices , we will be seeing this stay this way just like gasoline has not come down.

I sure hope that doesn't come true. The shortage is an excuse of course. This propane isn't costing any more to produce and deliver than the stuff did a month ago. I think what really hurt us is trading our propane overseas. They have driven our prices up. I will find ways to switch fuel supplies at my house if this keeps up next season.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

Here's my prediction. Because the gov won't do anything about the current prices , we will be seeing this stay this way just like gasoline has not come down.

this^^^.........whenever you have a spike in prices on anything they just never seem to come back down to were they were before the spike.

 

[ishiboo]

I was surprised to head outside and find my 1000 gallon is down to 35%, filled in November. Last year it lasted us from July 2012 to November 2013.

My fill price right now is $3.99/gallon.

 

[weldtoride]

Just got 200 gallons last week, 4.89 gallon. Hicksgas. Been with them for 15 years.
Neighbor of my inlaws up in N. Wisconsin reports rationing, so I was glad to get it, but now I have a crazy bill to pay....

Read online about several factors, weather, pipeline among them, all add up to what may be just a perfect storm for some profit-taking.

Call me a conspiracy theorist nutjob, but enegry providers love a limited supply, it allows them to jack prices like this. I read several years ago that when environmentalists and others succeeded in getting MTBEs back on the table again, talking about removing them from gasoline markets like ours in the Chicago and surrounding counties area, that the major opposition to removing them came from Big Oil!! Why? Because MTBE bearing gasoline was mandated to a certain area, that therefore created a "micro market" where all the gas had to contain MTBE. As a shortage began, fuel could not be brought in easily and cheaply from surrounding areas downstate or from out of state because it could not meet spec.

Simple supply and demand. Lower the supply, demand goes up, along with price.

 

[ishiboo]

Simple supply and demand. Lower the supply, demand goes up, along with price.

Lowering the supply (ceteris paribus) does NOT increase the demand in this case (nor in most cases besides things like luxury goods).

Colder than usual temperatures has increased demand. The supply is lower due to higher usage in the pre-heating season period, pipeline issues, etc. Both these factors combine to significantly increase prices.