Proto from Amazon = No Warranty

[bob08]

I'm not sure if others here have encountered this, but I just got off the phone with Proto's customer service department after attempting to warranty a tool set I purchased and just received in the mail from Amazon; it was not damaged in shipping, but rather defective out of the box. Instead of shipping it back to Amazon, I figured I'd see what Proto's warranty department could do for me, since there's just one defective part from a larger set. The representative informed me that they do not warranty Proto tools purchased from Amazon, since Amazon is not one of their official distributors. The representative (who despite not helping me in the least, I must say, was very polite) told me that they treat tools purchased from Amazon similarly to those purchased from ebay, since Amazon buys old stock, "defective merchandise" (her words), etc.

In the past, I've purchased many of my Proto tools from either Grainger or McMaster Carr, I just happened to make this most recent purchase from Amazon. Now, I can exchange the tool through Amazon, but I assume I'd be up a creak if the tool failed down the road.

As for Proto, I think it's a bit of a questionable policy to not warranty newly purchased tools. I like their tools, but their warranty policy in this instance leaves a bit to be desired.

I just wanted to let folks here know about this, since I'm sure many of you order Proto tools from Amazon. Anyone here have a similar experience?

 

[HandyManny]

That *****. I've always had high regard for Proto. Sounds like their service has gone to ****.

Seems that they should warranty their tools no matter who sell them. Or they shouldn't allow defects out the door. I've seen a few defects in stuff I got from MSC recently within the last couple years. Simply send them back to Proto and don't say where you got them.

 

[Roots]

With premium products, part of the distribution agreement often involves the reseller agreeing to do some of the warranty handling and other aspects of the products customer service.

Unauthorized distributors are able to offer reduced prices, partly because they don't have to set some funds aside or add on service costs, making the part just a transferable commodity.

I personally wouldn't paint Proto in a negative light, as a company, for this. It's also easily navigated around, if you have a relationship with an authorized vendor.

 

[bob08]

Comparatively, I ordered a bunch of screwdrivers from Snap On recently. There were QC issues with two of them. I just called up their customer service department and the response was, "No problem sir, we'll take care of that."

They mailed out two new replacements to me the same day, no questions asked, and they didn't require that I mail the defective ones back to them.

That's customer service...

 

[bob08]

With premium products, part of the distribution agreement often involves the reseller agreeing to do some of the warranty handling and other aspects of the products customer service.

Unauthorized distributors are able to offer reduced prices, partly because they don't have to set some funds aside or add on service costs, making the part just a transferable commodity.

The crux of the matter here is the concept of a "premium product;" a premium product should come with premium customer service and warranty.

As for price, the cost of the set was the same at Grainger as it was on Amazon, I just happened to be ordering other items from Amazon at the time. Now, I understand the implications of receiving a tool at a discounted price, but I still think Proto's policy here is unreasonable.

That being said, I guess there's no free lunch, huh?

 

[tube_guy]

Were the tools you purchased marked differently than Proto tools purchased elsewhere? Were they marked 'Not guaranteed' or something similar? According to their Web page, there are no such exclusions on their warrantee.

http://www.stanleyproto.com/default.asp?TYPE=STATICLEFT&PAGE=warranty.htm&LEFT=left_warranty.htm

If they are letting anyone buy their defective merchandise that is marked as though it were first quality, then I would think that the same first quality guarantee should still apply. I would call them back and ask to speak with a manager.

 

[unixgeek]

Last time I had to replace a Proto tool, I took it to Grainger (where I bought it) and they gave me a hard time about it and told me Proto assesses the tools for warranty replacement on a case-by-case basis. I was shocked...

 

[posaune]

Comparatively, I ordered a bunch of screwdrivers from Snap On recently. There were QC issues with two of them. I just called up their customer service department and the response was, "No problem sir, we'll take care of that."

They mailed out two new replacements to me the same day, no questions asked, and they didn't require that I mail the defective ones back to them.

That's customer service...

I've done the same with Proto (with something bought on eBay) and Gearwrench too. I've never had a problem at my local Sears either. We've also all read the stories of people trying to get something taken care of through their local dealer and failing miserably (or being perfectly successful).

I don't think any company has their warranty system (or more likely employees) completely straight.

 

[SMKS]

I've actually read about this before with various brands.

I don't think the customer service rep was correct saying Amazon sells seconds. Perhaps that's true in vary rare cases, but I don't think she knows what she's talking about.

I think the problem is that online tool stores can buy tools from wholesalers and sell them, but the tool store still isn't considered an "authorized distributor." So, the tools from Amazon were very likely normal first-run tools, but were purchased from a wholesaler or another distributor. Amazon didn't go through whatever process it takes to become an authorized distributor.

 

[RKSpeed]

Last time I had to replace a Proto tool, I took it to Grainger (where I bought it) and they gave me a hard time about it and told me Proto assesses the tools for warranty replacement on a case-by-case basis. I was shocked...

Same here, my uncle deals with Grainger on a DAILY basis so I had him take a 3/4" ratchet in to get replaced/rebuilt kit. They said unless it was bought through them (Grainger) they wont do anything. Luckily since everyone in there knew him well, I got a rebuild kit. Wont be buying Proto anymore unless its a steal of a deal, why buy Proto with no "local" guarantee when I could buy another brand that is.

 

[Jim85IROC]

Comparatively, I ordered a bunch of screwdrivers from Snap On recently. There were QC issues with two of them. I just called up their customer service department and the response was, "No problem sir, we'll take care of that."

They mailed out two new replacements to me the same day, no questions asked, and they didn't require that I mail the defective ones back to them.

That's customer service...

If you bought the Protos from Proto, I'm sure you would have been met with the same service. The issue is that you bought the product from a "gray market" vendor, not an authorized retailer. I guess I'm used to that because I buy a lot of electronics, and no reputable electronic manufacturer will touch gray market stuff with a 10 foot pole. If you can cough up a Crutchfield receipt for your snazzy new Denon receiver, you're beat.

 

[Zrexxer]

Proto has never been easy to deal with on warranty. Back in the 80's here there was still one brick-and mortar hardware store here that was a Proto dealer, and they'd tell you "We'll send it back to Proto and see what they say. Check back in a few weeks."

Some of the auto parts stores sold Proto Challenger, and it was about 50-50 whether you could get any of them to help you out with that line.

Those businesses are long gone, and I don't know where you'd even go besides Grainger around here any more.

 

[Roots]

The crux of the matter here is the concept of a "premium product;" a premium product should come with premium customer service and warranty.

Rolex is generally considered a premium brand as well. Try placing a U.S. factory warranty claim, with a legitimate, but gray market purchased Rolex. Amazon's code ninjas likely don't calculate their gray market nature versus Graingers being an authorized reseller, when creating the algorithms that determine the price Amazon charges... Or, are betting that most people won't notice.

I'd be more than willing to bet that Amazon is procuring these products from a distributor, trying to increase their volume, and that they're not seconds. I do think it's really unfortunate that you didn't receive an exceptional discount on Amazon versus Grainger though, and readily admit that it bites. It's still a great product and hopefully you can develop a relationship with an authorized distributor who will warranty it for you, if you decide to not send it back to Amazon. Most authorized distributors, in my experience, will freely do so... if you're one of their customers, at times, as well.

If you bought the Protos from Proto, I'm sure you would have been met with the same service. The issue is that you bought the product from a "gray market" vendor, not an authorized retailer.

Assuming you're referring to the customer service response from Snap-On, after the purchase of Snap-On products from Snap-On. I'd be inclined to agree, albeit I do think Snap-On is heads and shoulders above Proto as a company.

The gray market analogy is right on. From Stanley/Proto warranty website mentioned above:

EXCLUSIVE REMEDY AND CLAIM PROCEDURE:
Distributors of record must act as a return agent.

Granted, I'm not saying that I think this is the best long term policy.

 

[bob08]

The set I bought was not listed as being a second, and it was sold through Amazon by Amazon LLC.

The thing that tweaked me a bit was that the representative was completely inflexible and told me my only recourse was to deal with Amazon, and that there was nothing their warranty department would do.

As for buying direct from Proto, they don't sell direct, they only sell through their distributors and dealers. Convenient, huh?

 

[tube_guy]

I guess it depends what the representative from Proto meant when they said they do not warrantee tools purchased through Amazon. Did they mean that the tools purchased from Amazon have no warrantee or just that Stanley Tool will not perform the warrantee service to the end consumer?

 

[trboxman]

It's a stupid policy on something that is not serial numbered and linked to an original purchaser. As for NOS, so what, it's new, uncirculated and presumably good. As for seconds, WTH would let unmarked seconds out on the market? I've got some Proto wrenches that are over 20 years old and purchased thousands of miles away from a distributor that doesn't exist anymore, how the hell would I get a broken tool warrantied with such an asinine policy?

 

[bob08]

Granted, I'm not saying that I think this is the best long term policy.

I agree completely.

I think the ancillary argument about authorized vs. non-authorized distributorship is interesting, but insofar as I'm concerned, the bottom line is whether or not a manufacturer will stand behind their tool and warranty it when there's a manufacturer's defect or a legitimate failure of the tool.

Their current warranty policy in this instance leaves something to be desired.

And that's unfortunate, because even though I like their tools, in the future I'll think twice before buying their brand again. Why deal with the hassle...

 

[bob08]

I guess it depends what the representative from Proto meant when they said they do not warrantee tools purchased through Amazon. Did they mean that the tools purchased from Amazon have no warrantee or just that Stanley Tool will not perform the warrantee service to the end consumer?

As I understood it, the representative said I'd need to return or exchange the tool set with Amazon, and that's fine considering Amazon will exchange it or allow you to make a return within whatever their time frame is for returns and exchanges. After that time period is up, say you have an issue with the tool a year from now, Amazon will do nothing for you. This is where the manufacturer's warranty comes into play, and insofar as my earlier conversation with the Proto representative went, she stated they do not warranty tools purchased from unauthorized dealers.

 

[Super Sport]

Do you need a receipt to warranty their tools? If not, don't tell them where you bought it.

It sounds like they aren't very good with warranty repair at all, so I will remember that when considering buying any of their tools.

 

[losabio]

The set I bought was not listed as being a second, and it was sold through Amazon by Amazon LLC.

Thanks for making this thread. I recently picked up 20, 21, and 22mm ASD Protoblack combo wrenches from Amazon and had no idea that I was buying tools without a warranty. I guess I'll stick to MSC for Proto if this is how Proto will be handling Amazon purchases!

 

[Roots]

Their current warranty policy in this instance leaves something to be desired.

And that's unfortunate, because even though I like their tools, in the future I'll think twice before buying their brand again. Why deal with the hassle...

I've no doubt, that the primary intent of that policy, is to minimize warranty expenses by making it too difficult. Especially in light of the company being a subsidiary of Stanley.

On a side note, I'd email Amazon and explain how disappointed you were to discover that you purchased items from them that were misrepresented. That no where did Amazon mention that Proto factory warranties were considered void, when you purchase from them. That you paid full market price with the belief you were purchasing a new quality product along with the full factory warranty. Be polite... heck, I'm even curious to hear how they respond!

 

[SMKS]

On a side note, I'd email Amazon and explain how disappointed you were to discover that you purchased items from them that were misrepresented. That no where did Amazon mention that Proto factory warranties were considered void, when you purchase from them. That you paid full market price with the belief you were purchasing a new quality product along with the full factory warranty. Be polite... heck, I'm even curious to hear how they respond!

+1 to this.

I wonder what Amazon would tell you?

 

[bob08]

Thanks for making this thread. I recently picked up 20, 21, and 22mm ASD Protoblack combo wrenches from Amazon and had no idea that I was buying tools without a warranty. I guess I'll stick to MSC for Proto if this is how Proto will be handling Amazon purchases!

My pleasure.

My intention in posting this thread was just to let others here know of my experience with Proto in this instance. Your interactions with Proto on warranty issues concerning their tools purchased from Amazon may differ. I hope so.

 

[MrMark]

I had the same phone conversation, but the lady was misinformed. I forget the details but she thought Amazon was like ebay. I explained to her that this was new product. She told me to send it in and they replaced it. I think they just try to make it hard and you will never get the same story twice from these reps. Same thing for Danaher/Armstrong. Getting warranty is hard unless it's Snap on or Craftsman, for me anyway.

 

[ptschram]

If you read Snap-On's warranty, it states that if a tool isn't bought through their authorized distributors, warranty replacement is at their discretion.

Even then, they only warranty their stuff for defects, if you abuse it or wear it out, it's at the dealer's discretion to replace it.

One of the many reasons I try to treat my Snap-On men well.

Haven't had a warranty problem since 1978! I might just have grown up a bit since then.

 

[bob08]

I've no doubt, that the primary intent of that policy, is to minimize warranty expenses by making it too difficult. Especially in light of the company being a subsidiary of Stanley.

On a side note, I'd email Amazon and explain how disappointed you were to discover that you purchased items from them that were misrepresented. That no where did Amazon mention that Proto factory warranties were considered void, when you purchase from them. That you paid full market price with the belief you were purchasing a new quality product along with the full factory warranty. Be polite... heck, I'm even curious to hear how they respond!

Amazon's customer service representative told me they'd be glad to accept it as a return or exchange it (they'd pay for the return shipping too since there is a defect with the item), but only within their 30 day time limit on returns or exchanges. After that period, they said I'd have to take up any issues with the manufacturer.

As for Proto factory warranties, they couldn't speak to that, since they're not the manufacturer.

I'll likely exchange the set with Amazon. On the whole Amazon has always done right by me with regards to their policies on returns and exchanges. In this instance, I can't really fault them, since they're willing to do everything in their power (as stipulated by their return and exchange policy listed plainly on their website) to rectify the problem.

Yes, I could return it for a refund and buy the same set at my local grainger with the knowledge that if any part of the set failed in the future I'd have an easier time with Proto's warranty (theoretically). But that's more trouble to me than it's worth. As long as I receive a complete, non-defective tool set from Amazon, that'd be fine by me and a reasonable resolution to the issue.

As for buying Proto tools in the future, I might buy them from Grainger or McMaster Carr (I'm assuming they're an "authorized" distributor, I hope so since most of my Proto tools come from them; I'll have to check on that one), but honestly, I think I'll look elsewhere first.

 

[ImportTuner]

The same "no warranty" applies to Optima batteries purchased from Amazon. Optima considers Amazon a "grey market" since they are not authorized dealers. I wonder what else Amazon sells that are not warrantied by the manufacturer...

 

[bob08]

If you read Snap-On's warranty, it states that if a tool isn't bought through their authorized distributors, warranty replacement is at their discretion.

Even then, they only warranty their stuff for defects, if you abuse it or wear it out, it's at the dealer's discretion to replace it.

One of the many reasons I try to treat my Snap-On men well.

Haven't had a warranty problem since 1978! I might just have grown up a bit since then.

I've only purchased Snap On tools from either their website or the local Snap On driver who stops by a garage just down the block from my house. Both the customer service representatives on the phone and the local dealer have been great. That being said, I try to give the local guy my business when I can, since he's warrantied tools for me that I purchased from the website (before I knew he was routinely in my neighborhood), and he's a decent guy.

As for Proto stuff, short of items purchased from Grainger, I'd have to mail in items for warranty. I'm usually not too concerned about this, since I honestly don't break too many tools in the course of normal usage.

 

[lowbucktruck]

It's a stupid policy on something that is not serial numbered and linked to an original purchaser. As for NOS, so what, it's new, uncirculated and presumably good. As for seconds, WTH would let unmarked seconds out on the market? I've got some Proto wrenches that are over 20 years old and purchased thousands of miles away from a distributor that doesn't exist anymore, how the hell would I get a broken tool warrantied with such an asinine policy?

I agree with Bob08 and trboxman on this one. I have been accumulating Proto tools (used/second-hand and NOS) for some time now, building up a Proto tool set. This gives me some reason to be concerned.
Now in comparison, I can still take my S-K or Craftsman tools in for warranty exchange (or rebuild kits for my ratchets) and at least the store/supplier will entertain the idea of a warranty exchange.

I have been keeping records and receipts for tool purchases (for insurance purposes), but some tools I have owned for years and would be unable to locate the original receipt/proof-of-purchase. For a name-branded tool with no unique ID number or serial number, this should be a non-issue regarding warranty.

From the Stanley-Proto website:
"Exclusive remedy and claim procedure:

1. Distributors of record must act as a return agent.
2. The exclusive remedy under this Limited Lifetime Warranty for products determined to be deficient in materials or workmanship by Stanley-Proto is repair or replacement with a reconditioned tool of equal value by Stanley-Proto.
3. The selected remedy is at the sole discretion of Stanley-Proto. In no event shall Stanley-Proto be responsible for more than the original purchase price of the product. "

 

[bob08]

The same "no warranty" applies to Optima batteries purchased from Amazon. Optima considers Amazon a "grey market" since they are not authorized dealers. I wonder what else Amazon sells that are not warrantied by the manufacturer...

Amazon has details with regards to their return and exchange policy for specific types of products. The section on tools is pretty nonspecific, but it certainly does not list anything regarding "grey market" items.

Given the diversity of products and number of items that Amazon sells, I wouldn't expect it's possible, at least not without a heck of allot of legwork, to list details on manufacturer's warranties.

I'd say the onus lies primarily on the manufacturer to clearly state their warranty policies, which to be fair, Proto kind of does; if I hadn't had reason to call them with regards to this issue though, I never would have assumed they wouldn't warranty a new item of theirs which was purchased at retailer X or Y.

I suppose this is a case of Caveat Emptor with Proto. Sad, but seemingly a fact.

 

[bob08]

I agree with Bob08 and trboxman on this one. I have been accumulating Proto tools (used/second-hand and NOS) for some time now, building up a Proto tool set. This gives me some reason to be concerned.
Now in comparison, I can still take my S-K or Craftsman tools in for warranty exchange (or rebuild kits for my ratchets) and at least the store/supplier will entertain the idea of a warranty exchange.

I have been keeping records and receipts for tool purchases (for insurance purposes), but some tools I have owned for years and would be unable to locate the original receipt/proof-of-purchase. For a name-branded tool with no unique ID number or serial number, this should be a non-issue regarding warranty.

From the Stanley-Proto website:
"Exclusive remedy and claim procedure:

1. Distributors of record must act as a return agent.
2. The exclusive remedy under this Limited Lifetime Warranty for products determined to be deficient in materials or workmanship by Stanley-Proto is repair or replacement with a reconditioned tool of equal value by Stanley-Proto.
3. The selected remedy is at the sole discretion of Stanley-Proto. In no event shall Stanley-Proto be responsible for more than the original purchase price of the product. "

I wouldn't be overly concerned. Of the Proto tools I have, I've been pretty pleased with their functionality, and like I said earlier, the likelihood of my breaking one of their tools in the course of normal use is low.

In my conversation with the Proto representative, she asked me where I purchased the tool set, and I answered her honestly; I had no reason not to.

If I do have a warranty issue with them in the future, I'll answer honestly as well; since I've purchased most of my Proto stuff from either Grainger or McMaster Carr, I'll tell them that.

Honestly though, who remembers specific details on where they purchased each and every tool in their tool box. I sure don't. Generally I can say I buy most of my tools from this store or that, because I frequent a limited number of retailers, or I can say I likely got tool A or B from this tool truck, etc. Although relatively recently I've been scanning and saving my receipts, by no means do I retain receipts for every tool purchase.

If you need to warranty a tool with Proto in the future and they ask you where you got it, you could always respond with that old political favorite. Repeat after me: "I have no recollection of that, Senator."

 

[robmarch]

why would proto allow defective merchandise with their brand name on it to be sold, period, without stamping it out as a second or similar?

 

[byoungblood]

Last time I had to replace a Proto tool, I took it to Grainger (where I bought it) and they gave me a hard time about it and told me Proto assesses the tools for warranty replacement on a case-by-case basis. I was shocked...

I guess it must vary between locations. I took a 1/2" drive ratchet to Grainger, just hoping for a rebuild kit, and the guy at the counter just replaced the ratchet.

If you're calling the manufacturer for warranty service, I'd just be silent about the place of purchase from now on. I know many electronics manufacturers are big on purchasing through authorized channels, but with a tool, there's no serial number or any record that they have that says that a tool was purchased from a certain retailer.

Now if they start asking for proof of purchse, you're still out of luck. But honestly, who keeps receipts for tools past the return time frame?

 

[crewchief888]

On a side note, I'd email Amazon and explain how disappointed you were to discover that you purchased items from them that were misrepresented. That no where did Amazon mention that Proto factory warranties were considered void, when you purchase from them. That you paid full market price with the belief you were purchasing a new quality product along with the full factory warranty. Be polite... heck, I'm even curious to hear how they respond!

lets you buy a new car, not from the dealer, but from the truck driver that delivered it.
the engine falls out the next day
and now you want the dealer to pay for it?

take it back to the truck driver that you bought it from.

let amazon figure it out.

 

[bob08]

Hey, thanks everybody for the lively discussion of this matter. I hope that the information I posted here, along with all of your subsequent input, will be of use to all of the other tool addicts/buyers on this forum.

Be well.

bob08

 

[Obie]

lets you buy a new car, not from the dealer, but from the truck driver that delivered it.
the engine falls out the next day
and now you want the dealer to pay for it?

take it back to the truck driver that you bought it from.

let amazon figure it out.

In this case though, the dealer (Proto) received their payment when the wholesaler (Shipping Company?) bought the items (car), and then sold the items (car) to Amazon (the truck driver). I think. I'm very mixed up with these two analogies right now.

 

[WBrowniv]

Another tool brand that has no warranty through Amazon is Grey Pneumatic. I was going to buy a large set through my Mac dealer and found the exact set on Amazon for 100 dollars less. Found out through GP that Amazon was not a authorized dealer and no warranty would be in effect. They did say that www.toolsource.com was a dealer and the warranties would be handled by them. The funny thing was their price was the same as Amazon's. That did not sit well with my Mac guy as the price was 60 bucks cheaper than his cost. I know that he has expenses and will warranty the tools so I'm still thinking about purchasing from him. Still, a hundred dollar difference is nothing to sneeze at

 

[HandyManny]

If you bought the Protos from Proto, I'm sure you would have been met with the same service. The issue is that you bought the product from a "gray market" vendor, not an authorized retailer. I guess I'm used to that because I buy a lot of electronics, and no reputable electronic manufacturer will touch gray market stuff with a 10 foot pole. If you can cough up a Crutchfield receipt for your snazzy new Denon receiver, you're beat.

I wouldn't regard Amazon as a gray market vendor. They are often listed as an online retailer of many manufacturers products. It's just that Proto may not be one of them.

 

[Toolhorder]

Comparatively, I ordered a bunch of screwdrivers from Snap On recently. There were QC issues with two of them. I just called up their customer service department and the response was, "No problem sir, we'll take care of that."

They mailed out two new replacements to me the same day, no questions asked, and they didn't require that I mail the defective ones back to them.

That's customer service...

and that's why I like their tools...

 

[redwrench60]

Holy ****! I can't believe there's any controversy on this. They have a name for this....It's called getting the shaft! This level of run around from a tool company is unacceptable. I saw a thread here recently called: How do good tool companies go bad?......THIS IS HOW!