Pull lube- yes or no

[Bert_]

Thank you for the conduit fill calculator, I hadn't seen that before. Plugging in the numbers I come up with 18% fill and a 4.5% chance of a jam. Looks like this is going to work out fine.
I just have 4 loose loops of the wire, not on a spool. Still, two ladders and a pole will make feeding easier than trying to untangle each loop as I am feeding it. Thanks for that idea as well.
Now to bury the conduit and pull the wire.

If you have hand coils of wire, the best thing you can do is to unroll it in a straight line on the ground.

 

[mike93lx]

If you have hand coils of wire, the best thing you can do is to unroll it in a straight line on the ground.

The last time I pulled from hand coils, I laid it all out on the driveway and respooled it all together on one of these reels. Then set the reel on a broom handle through the rungs on a step ladder right at the box. Worked great

 

[sparky 1971]

The last time I pulled from hand coils, I laid it all out on the driveway and respooled it all together on one of these reels. Then set the reel on a broom handle through the rungs on a step ladder right at the box. Worked great

Why? I can see something like that being beneficial for coils of #10 and smaller to cut down on the tangled up mess they would make unrolled across the ground so if that was the case, I forgive you. But for #8 and larger, which is what I have cut by the SH, putting it in the ground works pretty well. If the length gets to be much over 100' or someplace crowded where I won't have room to lay the wire out in a somewhat straight line I will specify to put it on a spool. In this case, I would actually rather have hand coils, 90ish feet of #2 AL is nuttin'.

 

[sparky 1971]

I just have 4 loose loops of the wire, not on a spool. Still, two ladders and a pole will make feeding easier than trying to untangle each loop as I am feeding it. Thanks for that idea as well.
Now to bury the conduit and pull the wire.

I just saw this, don't put the loops of wire on anything that isn't the ground or you will be sorry. Just unroll them side by side the entire length and don't let them cross.

 

[MOS3522]

What happens to the lube after you pull? Does it evaporate over time, or sit in the conduit forever?

 

[sparky 1971]

What happens to the lube after you pull? Does it evaporate over time, or sit in the conduit forever?

It's always there, but dries out. The conduit below grade will eventually fill up with water and dilute the lube down to practically nothing.

 

[PCustoms]

The conduit below grade will eventually fill up with water and dilute the lube down to practically nothing.

I've never understood this.

If I go out and glue white PVC, a drain line for example, do the joints break down and leak?

What causes conduit to leak?

 

[Innovate1]

I just saw this, don't put the loops of wire on anything that isn't the ground or you will be sorry. Just unroll them side by side the entire length and don't let them cross.

Unless the entry into the conduit is horizontal running the wires over something so they have a straighter shot into the conduit makes things a lot easier. Even with someone on each end it's a lot easier to guide the wires in if they are generally going in the right direction. A sharp bend where the wires go into the conduit just makes things harder. And a pulley for the pull rope if it isn't a straight pull makes things easier too. I put up a tripod of 2x material on the pull end so I didn't have to pull straight up. I suppose I could have made the pull in the time it took me to set up but it worked great.

 

[mike93lx]

Why? I can see something like that being beneficial for coils of #10 and smaller to cut down on the tangled up mess they would make unrolled across the ground so if that was the case, I forgive you. But for #8 and larger, which is what I have cut by the SH, putting it in the ground works pretty well. If the length gets to be much over 100' or someplace crowded where I won't have room to lay the wire out in a somewhat straight line I will specify to put it on a spool. In this case, I would actually rather have hand coils, 90ish feet of #2 AL is nuttin'.

It was #10... Guess I should have mentioned that. Not going to be useful for the big stuff

 

[Innovate1]

I've never understood this.

If I go out and glue white PVC, a drain line for example, do the joints break down and leak?

What causes conduit to leak?

It could be lack of glue on the joints. I missed one on a run and had water coming out the low end when it rained and had to dig it up and glue. Not fun. But if it's glued there is still condensation.

 

[sparky 1971]

I've never understood this.

If I go out and glue white PVC, a drain line for example, do the joints break down and leak?

What causes conduit to leak?

My answer to both questions is: I don't know. Every time I've pulled old wire out of buried conduit, water has come out. A couple years ago I had some parking lot light lights to do. The conduit had been run and the ends capped off, the bases poured, and the poles laying on the ground but due to "supply chain issues", I waited several months as well as over the winter for the heads to show. When the day to pull the wire finally came, the first thing we did was blow gallons of water out of the pipes. Many years ago when I was still gainfully employed, for fill in work, I was sent out to an addition at the water treatment plant. At that place, the service was in a building about 200' uphill from where I was. The building downhill had three or four 3" or 4" conduits for the feeder coming from underground into the bottom of the gear with water running out of at least one of them and across the floor 24/7. It wasn't my problem or my job so I don't remember the details very well. I don't know what was done to fix it either, but I run into some of the guys that worked on that job once in awhile and need to remember to ask.

 

[Firebrick43]

I've never understood this.

If I go out and glue white PVC, a drain line for example, do the joints break down and leak?

What causes conduit to leak?

The ends allow allow air in. Being buried below ground the temp is commonly below the dew point especially in the summer. Depending on location this might never exceed 55 degrees

The relatively warm moist air enters, cools off, and precipitates out the moisture. Every mourning and evening as the temp rises and falls the cycle is repeated. Water slowly builds up. Same cycle is how water gets in fuel tanks even when stored indoors.

Above ground tube are usually at a higher temp for at least part of the year so that precipitated moisture will evaporate back into the air when hot and dry.

 

[PCustoms]

Gallons of water sounds like a lot more then condensation....

Either way, is a brick of putty roo much money these days?

It's unlikely, but I packed both ends of my conduit to keep critters out

 

[Firebrick43]

It would take years to get gallons for sure. Plugging the ends will help but it’s not very common. It’s usually not gallons, but pulling the wire they will have water on them

Ever have a late winter/early spring cool night and it warms up, causing everything in an uninsulated shed to sweat and sometimes the metal roof to drip?


Sparkys example of water constantly running out was more than likely a bad joint somewhere that water was infiltrating

 

[sparky 1971]

Unless the entry into the conduit is horizontal running the wires over something so they have a straighter shot into the conduit makes things a lot easier. Even with someone on each end it's a lot easier to guide the wires in if they are generally going in the right direction. A sharp bend where the wires go into the conduit just makes things harder. And a pulley for the pull rope if it isn't a straight pull makes things easier too. I put up a tripod of 2x material on the pull end so I didn't have to pull straight up. I suppose I could have made the pull in the time it took me to set up but it worked great.

What if what he wants to do is put a pipe through the coils of wire and try to unroll it as it gets pulled? It won't spin and will tighten down on the axle while everything turns into a tangled up mess. Three 90' #2 aluminium and a #6 that really only needs to be a #8 is nothing, even for a beginner. Just don't let anything get twisted together and all will be well.

And I've pulled miles of wire, feeding every inch of it in by hand. I've never felt the need to rig some sort of contraption together to help feed it in straight, even with four 500 MCM copper copper conductors.

 

[sparky 1971]

Gallons of water sounds like a lot more then condensation....

Either way, is a brick of putty roo much money these days?

It's unlikely, but I packed both ends of my conduit to keep critters out

My example of gallons wasn't given with context.
It was one 250ish and three 100ish foot runs of 1". The concrete guys were on site replacing some of the lot so we used their towable compressor to blow water from all four about 30' in the air . It might have been a couple of gallons total, but it was still water that came out of pipes that were dry when installed.

 

[Bert_]

I've never understood this.

If I go out and glue white PVC, a drain line for example, do the joints break down and leak?

What causes conduit to leak?

It doesn't leak, but air can travel through it. Warm moist air, conduit in the cool ground.

Some might leak. We don't primer it and not as careful as would with plumbing

 

[ixlr8]

I just saw this, don't put the loops of wire on anything that isn't the ground or you will be sorry. Just unroll them side by side the entire length and don't let them cross.

I was trying to keep the wires off the ground to keep dirt/sand off the wires that would make them more difficult to pull. Or am I overthinking this?

 

[mike93lx]

I was trying to keep the wires off the ground to keep dirt/sand off the wires that would make them more difficult to pull. Or am I overthinking this?

I wouldn't let them get filthy, but a little dirt isn't going to matter.

 

[sparky 1971]

I was trying to keep the wires off the ground to keep dirt/sand off the wires that would make them more difficult to pull. Or am I overthinking this?

You're over thinking it. Don't drag them through mud and you'll be fine. Another reason to not use lube is that if something were to go wrong causing the wires to have to be pulled back, you will have a sticky, dirt, grass, and leaf covered mess. There's not enough time in a day to get all the lube off if that were to happen.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

That's the best advice so far. Make a decent pulling head and the wire will almost pull itself in with the assistanceof two guys. Make a monstrosity of a head and it will take 12 people, five gallons of lube, three monkeys, a forklift, some dynamite, and every cuss word ever uttered.

This ^ is key to easy pulling.
Trim 50% off the conductors and stagger the insulation and wrap around the pull rope then tape into a "tapered" smooth head.
You can use a pulling grip (similar to a Chinese hand cuff) AND I have seen some guys (hacks) make a big head (AKA: Horse Co@k) and wouldn’t pull 15’ into the pipe without stopping.

 

[ixlr8]

I'll clarify so it remains within the context of this thread.......

The question to the OP is.... Are you pulling the conductors by yourself or is there help available to feed the conductors into the conduit while someone is on the other end pulling simultaneously?

Sorry I missed this question. There will be help, one at each end. Wife will be feeding the wire and I will be pulling the rope.

 

[sparky 1971]

Sorry I missed this question. There will be help, one at each end. Wife will be feeding the wire and I will be pulling the rope.

Just make sure the rope is going as straight up or down as you can. If it rubs over the threads on the end of the connector it will tear it up pretty bad. I know that one from experience. The bushings that you need to have on the ends will keep that from happening somewhat, but I usually wait until the wire is in before putting the bushings on, they have a tendency to catch the head of the wire when it comes through and will either stop it dead in it's tracks or get ripped off of connector.

 

[ixlr8]

Lube never hurts, just make sure to CLEAN up after pulling. Wipe down the conductors with a rag to remove excess lube and to clean up any that may be in the enclosures you are pulling from / to.

With that said, pulling lube does somewhat solidify into a residue, so don't fill the conduit with lube when pulling.

As others have said, use a vacuum to **** in pull string, but DO NOT use the pull string to pull your conductors. Pull string will cut into the 90s and get stuck in place, as well as compromise the conduit when you put some force behind it.

Tie on a small piece corner of a grocery bag to make a balloon in the conduit and vacuum it in, then use mule tape or a similar, larger softer pull rope to pull in your conductors.

Spend a couple of extra dollars, get yourself a roll of 3M Super33+, strip out about a 1' of each of the conductors, cut off 1/2~2/3 of the conductor strands, tie a strong loop in your pull rope, loop your stripped conductors through the loop, use a pair of pump pliers to make the pulling head as small as possible and then wrap the head in Super33+. Super33+ is STRONG and really stretches, so do tight wraps. Wrap the head so that it has a smooth, gradual transition from the pull rope diameter to the diameter of your combined conductors.

3x #2's and a #6 in a 1-1/2" conduit should be a pretty easy pull at around ~20% conduit fill, especially at only 90', but still make your life easy and spend a few minutes making up the pulling head correctly.

Early on in my electrical career, I lost too many conductors midway through a pull and/or had MISERABLE pulls due to cheap tape and poorly made heads.

Just my two cents!

I think I will give you a dime for that info.... thank you for the details.

 

[sparky 1971]

This ^ is key to easy pulling.
Trim 50% off the conductors and stagger the insulation and wrap around the pull rope then tape into a "tapered" smooth head.
You can use a pulling grip (similar to a Chinese hand cuff) AND I have seen some guys (hacks) make a big head (AKA: Horse Co@k) and wouldn’t pull 15’ into the pipe without stopping.

And it shouldn't have to be stated that the ends of the wire, when folded over, can't be on the insulation of what's left. The whole point of it is to make the head smaller. I have about a dozen sets of the Chinese finger traps and another grip for 2" and larger with set screws, but with anything 1/0 and smaller, unless it's a really long pull, I'm stripping and folding. I even do it when I'm yanking several #12 stranded. I just bite into the conductor with the #14 hole and pull the insulation off, taking the outer layer of strands with it.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

And it shouldn't have to be stated that the ends of the wire, when folded over, can't be on the insulation of what's left. The whole point of it is to make the head smaller. I have about a dozen sets of the Chinese finger traps and another grip for 2" and larger with set screws, but with anything 1/0 and smaller, unless it's a really long pull, I'm stripping and folding. I even do it when I'm yanking several #12 stranded. I just bite into the conductor with the #14 hole and pull the insulation off, taking the outer layer of strands with it.

TRUE! ^ STRIP, FOLD and TAPE is the way to go!
During my 50+ years in the trade pulling miles of wire of all sizes and making up the pull head is "second nature" to me and I sometimes leave out some help tips………. I wish I would have had a smart phone to take pix of some of the wire pulling jobs we did back in the 1970’s to 90’s.

BTW! I had a good collection of 'larger pulling grips' that were seldom used……. However we used the small grips for short runs on less than 50' wIth #10-14 wires on quick EZ pulls.

 

[ixlr8]

And it shouldn't have to be stated that the ends of the wire, when folded over, can't be on the insulation of what's left. The whole point of it is to make the head smaller. I have about a dozen sets of the Chinese finger traps and another grip for 2" and larger with set screws, but with anything 1/0 and smaller, unless it's a really long pull, I'm stripping and folding. I even do it when I'm yanking several #12 stranded. I just bite into the conductor with the #14 hole and pull the insulation off, taking the outer layer of strands with it.

Since this is my first major wire pull job, I'm glad you did state this.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

Since this is my first major wire pull job, I'm glad you did state this.

TIP! Strip and fold around the pull rope THEN put one tightly pulled wrap of Scotch 33 tape around the neatly folded, staggered and trimmed head THEN tap with the flat side of a pair of side cutter pliers or a rubber mallet to flatted out any "wild strands" and when done do two more tightly pulled wraps of 33+…………. Lube the made up head along with a "gob" of lube shot into the conduit and start pulling while someone feeds the wire and applying lube on every 10’ of wire.

WARNING! Make sure you have some old dry rags at the ready to wipe off the "**** slick" lube at both locations AND be careful walking on a "sloppy lubed up" slick floor……… Be neat and prepared to do a quick clean up.

 

[Bert_]

I like duck tape rather than electrical tape for anything #2 and larger.

 

[sparky 1971]

TIP! Strip and fold around the pull rope THEN put one tightly pulled wrap of Scotch 33 tape around the neatly folded, staggered and trimmed head THEN tap with the flat side of a pair of side cutter pliers or a rubber mallet to flatted out any "wild strands" and when done do two more tightly pulled wraps of 33+…………. Lube the made up head along with a "gob" of lube shot into the conduit and start pulling while someone feeds the wire and applying lube on every 10’ of wire.

WARNING! Make sure you have some old dry rags at the ready to wipe off the "**** slick" lube at both locations AND be careful walking on a "sloppy lubed up" slick floor……… Be neat and prepared to do a quick clean up.

You rich guys and your 33. I use 700 or duct tape. The 33 only comes out for wrapping splices.

 

[sparky 1971]

I like duck tape rather than electrical tape for anything #2 and larger.

Damn, great minds think alike, you posted while I was typing.

 

[sparky 1971]

And if you want to get really fancy, lay a piece of tie wire on the bundle before taping, but leave an end sticking out just enough to grab it with pliers. When it comes out the other end, grab it and rip it right through the duct tape making everything much easier to get apart. I usually remember to do it after I've already made the head up though.

 

[Bert_]

And if you want to get really fancy, lay a piece of tie wire on the bundle before taping, but leave an end sticking out just enough to grab it with pliers. When it comes out the other end, grab it and rip it right through the duct tape making everything much easier to get apart. I usually remember to do it after I've already made the head up though.

I like that. I'll see if I can remember next time

 

[sparky 1971]

I like that. I'll see if I can remember next time

It works really well as long as it's cheap tape. Gorilla tape, not so much.

 

[BreeStephany]

You rich guys and your 33. I use 700 or duct tape. The 33 only comes out for wrapping splices.

My first 'big' pull as a young apprentice was pulling in a 400' set of 750MCM Cu and it was 10 deg out. I followed the direction of the lead on site and used cheap tape, which resulted in us loosing a conductor at the last 90 and having to pull out back out about 390' of conductors, recoil and clean everything and start over.

When help showed up, the journeyman that came to help brought a case of a Super33+, showed me that even in the cold, Super33+ stuck and allowed for TIGHT, STRONG wraps.

We remade the head, grabbed the telehandler, pulled it into the building and started pulling conductors and got it through without issue. The head was a little rough looking when it came out the other side, but it still made it through.

Ever since I started working as a lead, I've always made sure I keep a case of Super33+ on the truck for pulling.

A couple of rolls of Super33+ are CHEAP compared to the price of labor spent pulling out conductors, cleaning and recoiling conductors and starting over.

Just my two cents.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

Ever since I started working as a lead, I've always made sure I keep a case of Super33+ on the truck for pulling.

A couple of rolls of Super33+ are CHEAP compared to the price of labor spent pulling out conductors, cleaning and recoiling conductors and starting over.

Just my two cents.

X2^
TIP! Buy a "sleeve" of 33+ and keep it at the ready.……… You will thank me later!

 

[Bert_]

My first 'big' pull as a young apprentice was pulling in a 400' set of 750MCM Cu and it was 10 deg out. I followed the direction of the lead on site and used cheap tape, which resulted in us loosing a conductor at the last 90 and having to pull out back out about 390' of conductors, recoil and clean everything and start over.

When help showed up, the journeyman that came to help brought a case of a Super33+, showed me that even in the cold, Super33+ stuck and allowed for TIGHT, STRONG wraps.

We remade the head, grabbed the telehandler, pulled it into the building and started pulling conductors and got it through without issue. The head was a little rough looking when it came out the other side, but it still made it through.

Ever since I started working as a lead, I've always made sure I keep a case of Super33+ on the truck for pulling.

A couple of rolls of Super33+ are CHEAP compared to the price of labor spent pulling out conductors, cleaning and recoiling conductors and starting over.

Just my two cents.

I carry duck tape and 33. I think the duck tape is tougher and actually sticks better than 33.

 

[sparky 1971]

My first 'big' pull as a young apprentice was pulling in a 400' set of 750MCM Cu and it was 10 deg out. I followed the direction of the lead on site and used cheap tape, which resulted in us loosing a conductor at the last 90 and having to pull out back out about 390' of conductors, recoil and clean everything and start over.

When help showed up, the journeyman that came to help brought a case of a Super33+, showed me that even in the cold, Super33+ stuck and allowed for TIGHT, STRONG wraps.

We remade the head, grabbed the telehandler, pulled it into the building and started pulling conductors and got it through without issue. The head was a little rough looking when it came out the other side, but it still made it through.

Ever since I started working as a lead, I've always made sure I keep a case of Super33+ on the truck for pulling.

A couple of rolls of Super33+ are CHEAP compared to the price of labor spent pulling out conductors, cleaning and recoiling conductors and starting over.

Just my two cents.

Was that using the strip, take off a bunch of strands, and fold method or did you have something made that was made for it?
My biggest pull was about 350' of 500 MCM, that was over 25 years ago and I don't remember what we did for a head but it wasn't strip and fold, I didn't learn about that until a few years later at a different employer. The largest wire I've used was 600 and didn't like it. Recently I had a parallel set of 350's and decided I'm done working with anything bigger than that.

I used to use 33 exclusively, but the increased price of it combined with my tendency to lose it 3/4 of a roll at a time has me using 700 a lot. I keep a few rolls off 33 on the truck, but rarely do I have it in my bag.