Pulling Through a 250' conduit

[2000xpsd]

I pulled 260' of cat5e,rg11,5c/22 and a pull string thru 1" of conduit with 3 bends a few weeks ago...no problem. Used regular pull string sucked with vac. Just have someone feed it while you pull...easy

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

This is the stuff I'm using. The actual run is about 210'. Some good ideas here. I can use a shop vac at on end and a compressor at the other.

Thanks for all the replies. Looks like something will work.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwir...48479?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053

Thats seal tite,youll be kicking yourself in the nuts by the time you get anything through it more than a couple of feet.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Poly? Is the proper pvc conduit really that expensive?



We did a job a couple years ago for a LARGE farm that needed a lot of underground primary conduit ran for some padmount transformers. It was roughly 23,000 feet of 5" with vaults about every 700'. We used nothing more than a rigid shop vac with a rag around the hose to help seal it in the end of the pipe. We were able to **** 500lb red polystring with nothing more than a walmart bag tied onto it, with another bag wadded up inside it. I've also done 2" at 1600' with the same shop vac.

It can be done, there's no reason to push string through conduit one stick at a time. The only time I've had an issue vacuuming is when I've waited to **** the string in and the conduit got some moisture in it or filled with water.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

250' is gonna take a LOT of lube.
Better contact Tampa for recommendations...

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I pulled 260' of cat5e,rg11,5c/22 and a pull string thru 1" of conduit with 3 bends a few weeks ago...no problem. Used regular pull string sucked with vac. Just have someone feed it while you pull...easy

 

[Bighead38]

Because that is the obvious and easy method. Plus it doesn't involve tools. This is GJ where everything needs to be complicated and use as many tools as possible lol.

But seriously just put the pull string in as your putting in the pipe. If you already have what you plan on pulling through then just install that as you go and eliminate the long pull all together.

 

[Norcal]

EE here. If you can, take the liquid-tite back and get a refund. Forget about conduit. Use black poly water pipe - it's cheap and easy to work with. You aren't pulling in 120 or 240 volt wiring so water pipe is fine. Depending on soil conditions, you have a choice of the thin or thick wall type (different pressure ratings). Depending on presence of rocks and whether small round or sharp larger ones, you may want to bed the pipe in a layer of sand for protection. Bury it min. 24" below grade.

Regardless of whether you use liquid-tite, rigid PVC or poly pipe, make sure there are max. 4 x 90 degree bends. If using poly pipe, especially the low pressure/thin wall type, if it is wavy when placed in the ground, each little wavy bend adds up and can exceed the 4x90 total limit. Nice thing about the poly pipe is you can make large radius sweep bends. Sucking a pull-string through will work fine. I've always just used a piece of plastic garbage bag. You may find it easier to pull a lightweight string through first. Forget about a fish tape. As mentioned, get the pull string in right away.

You might consider installing a pull box about 1/2 way through the run but 250' is not a big deal if conduit/pipe is properly installed. If using water pipe, an ordinary in-ground plastic valve box is fine. You should use lubricant - liquid dishwashing soap or wire lube. You need to be careful not to exceed the max. pulling tension on the cable.

If under a driveway anywhere, pay attention to protection of the pipe/conduit so that it won't get damaged afterwards.

I would NEVER use water pipe as a conduit for any reason, after it's been installed underground anyone digging would have no idea it's anything but a water pipe, at least w/ PVC conduit the gray color would mean it's electrical.

To the OP, lose the sealtite, & buy SCH 40 PVC it will be easier & cheaper as others have said.

 

[Mr_fixit]

I'd never use liquidtite for that distance, I would use electrical 1" pvc. **** a string through, but pull it with a rope.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

OMG 48 comments and counting on how and what is the proper conduit? This is just as silly as that thread about cordage!

File this thread in the ridiculous files.

Seriously, liquid tite sealtite, etc will be a royal PITA to pull through at that distance. Obviously the OP hasnt had much experience with it.

Youve got several other electricians on here telling u the right way to do it and yet u are still sure you're way is better? : wheres the facepalm?

What a waste of time.

Buy some schedule 40 conduit glue string and mule tape and be done with the questioning already!

And yes, a vacuum will easily pull a mouse(plastic bag) and string over that distance. Ive done it many times.

100% incorrect.
Sucking in a line is MUCH easier than blowing it in, IF you are using the right line. We do it with 3/4" and up ALL the time with ease. Done right 250' will **** in in about 5 seconds, literally. You just CANNOT use the jet line to pull the wire in. You must pull in a pulling rope. I use MuleTape.

A lot of speculation and questioning here, and I'll add. Let clarify this once and for all.
Do you mean liquidtite flexible conduit, as in Sealtite???
Or are you talking about rigid PVC conduit?

If Sealtite, all bets are off. You'll NEVER pull thru 250' of that. Does it even come in 250' lengths? All I have ever seen is 100' rolls.

And pushing Cat cable in will probably go in about 15-20 feet. It's not even close to worth considering.

This is the stuff I'm using. The actual run is about 210'. Some good ideas here. I can use a shop vac at on end and a compressor at the other.

Thanks for all the replies. Looks like something will work.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwir...48479?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053

Return it and buy PVC conduit. U wont be sorry u did!

Thats seal tite,youll be kicking yourself in the nuts by the time you get anything through it more than a couple of feet.

I would NEVER use water pipe as a conduit for any reason, after it's been installed underground anyone digging would have no idea it's anything but a water pipe, at least w/ PVC conduit the gray color would mean it's electrical.

To the OP, lose the sealtite, & buy SCH 40 PVC it will be easier & cheaper as others have said.

Yeah that would be along the same lines as using red or blue PEX for a gas line!

 

[ishiboo]

OMG 48 comments and counting on how and what is the proper conduit? This is just as silly as that thread about cordage!

File this thread in the ridiculous files.

Seriously, liquid tite sealtite, etc will be a royal PITA to pull through at that distance. Obviously the OP hasnt had much experience with it.

You ridiculed people for commenting multiple times and then added one more?

Yeah that would be along the same lines as using PEX for a gas line!

ROFL. Stick to electrical. PEX is fine for natural gas.

I installed a few hundred feet of 2" PVC for conduit last year, as well as several thousand feet of poly water line.

I will probably use poly water pipe for my network cable runs next time. It's cheap, quicker than rigid PVC conduit, smooth and no fittings. Being buried conduit everything in it has to be rated for the wet anyway, small knicks/etc. won't be a problem like they would be in a gas line.

I'd probably use PEX next time for the water line. The poly is a ***** to terminate without it leaking.

And without question for underground gas it would be MDPE/HDPE/PEX.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

....ROFL. Stick to electrical. PEX is fine for natural gas.

I installed a few hundred feet of 2" PVC for conduit last year, as well as several thousand feet of poly water line.

I will probably use poly water pipe for my network cable runs next time. It's cheap, quicker than rigid PVC conduit, smooth and no fittings. Being buried conduit everything in it has to be rated for the wet anyway, small knicks/etc. won't be a problem like they would be in a gas line.

I'd probably use PEX next time for the water line. The poly is a ***** to terminate without it leaking.

And without question for underground gas it would be MDPE/HDPE/PEX.

i forgot to say red or blue PEX....yellow is the correct PEX for gas line.

 

[ishiboo]

i forgot to say red or blue PEX....yellow is the correct PEX for gas line.

Gotcha. Yeah, no PEX for water applications. Yellow plastic gas line in the US is usually PE, not PEX. But there is PEX gas line

 

[simpler=better]

In my career, I had to pull cat6 through some old, water filled underground facilities. I found that if I used plenum rated cables, and was careful not to make any cuts in the sheathing, they actually lasted as long as the technology did.

So...2 years in residential and 30 in industrial?

 

[600SL]

I would love to use PVC but I do not have any straight runs at all. I'm sure I could heat it and bend it but that would be a days work in itself, as I have about 25' to 50' large radius bending to do.

I just ran 4 #8 THHN through 50 ft of 3/4" EMT. I not concerned about 1 Cat 6 cable in a 3/4" conduit.

This does not look like a challenge.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

I would love to use PVC but I do not have any straight runs at all. I'm sure I could heat it and bend it but that would be a days work in itself, as I have about 25' to 50' large radius bending to do.

I just ran 4 #8 THHN through 50 ft of 3/4" EMT. I not concerned about 1 Cat 6 cable in a 3/4" conduit.

This does not look like a challenge.

You seem to have left the bold part out in your OP which would have helped the people out on GJ in knowing ....while they were helping you on your project while replying.

I must ask with all due respect, why ask for advice on GJ when you were going to do the project the way you wanted anyway ?

 

[RoyBell]

PVC bends naturally, especially 3/4.

 

[w1im]

It sounds like it may be too late, but if I needed to run ethernet 250ft I would buy a couple of these.

http://www.l-com.com/wireless-netwo...ge-24-ghz-wireless-n300-outdoor-client-bridge

I bought 2 of the previous model that this one replaced and use it to extend a network between 2 buildings that are about 300ft apart with a small highway between them. They have been installed for a year and I have had no issues at all. At $160 for a pair they are probably not much more than your conduit cost and with these you won't need to dig a trench or buy 250ft of ethernet cable.

PS, the max length for ethernet is usually 100 meters (328ft) so if you have a long run before or after the conduit you may run into problems or slow speeds.

 

[Mattlt]

You won't push a fish tape through even 100' of coreline if it's laid out straight, you'll have to use a mouse and cheese, tie a string to its tail and hold cheese at the other end, send it through and it will pull the string for you.

Customer believed that when she asked how we would get a rope through 650' of 3".

Not so far fetched! Didn't phone and electric companies use ferrets to pull cables through conduit years ago?

 

[alfredeneuman]

Not so far fetched! Didn't phone and electric companies use ferrets to pull cables through conduit years ago?

When Buckingham Palace was first electrified all the underground conduits used Ferrets to install the strings.
A piece of bacon placed at the end of the conduit and a fan blowing through the conduit was used as a lure.

 

[jdieter]

I would love to use PVC but I do not have any straight runs at all. I'm sure I could heat it and bend it but that would be a days work in itself, as I have about 25' to 50' large radius bending to do.

I just ran 4 #8 THHN through 50 ft of 3/4" EMT. I not concerned about 1 Cat 6 cable in a 3/4" conduit.

This does not look like a challenge.

I'll repeat, use a strong pull rope, plenty of lubricant, and only bury after a successful continuity check. Although it may not "look like a challenge" looks are deceiving. And report back on how all this went for ya.

 

[ForceFed70]

I once literally spent a month doing this all day every day.

My Dad owns an electrical company that was working on a large commercial contract. I spent 1/2 of a summer pulling cable through conduit (fireproof building, everything was in metal conduit).

The equipment we had:
- ****** shop vac.
- ****** cheap string.
- Plastic bag.

Worked really well. We'd **** (or sometimes blow - it's a pain hauling that shop vac all over a jobsite) a thin twine through. If we had a larger conduit, we'd use the twine to pull through a 1/4" or 1/2" rope. For the real heavy long pulls we had a gas powered winch we'd use to pull the rope in. Worst was when the rope broke and you have to find a way to pull that cable back out without a winch.

Pretty basic really.

If he's only pulling 1 Cat6 cable through, the flexpipe will probably work fine although it wouldn't have been my choice.

 

[ishiboo]

I'll repeat, use a strong pull rope, plenty of lubricant, and only bury after a successful continuity check. Although it may not "look like a challenge" looks are deceiving. And report back on how all this went for ya.

This.

I have a feeling that conduit is very sticky (high friction) at that length. Since it's not rigid and small diameter, it will also flex a lot more causing the cable to have more friction on the sides.

 

[teamextreme]

Can't wait to see how this turns out.
To summarize:
OP asks question on pulling wire through direct buried sealtite.
Every electrician on the board advises against it and recommends getting PVC.
OP knows better, will proceed with installation method that costs 5 times the price.

PS: Large radius bends in PVC are no issue and will naturally bend, requiring no special tools. Even if it needs a bit of heat, you can put it over a stove, or bbq or even car exhaust for a minute with good results.

 

[600SL]

You seem to have left the bold part out in your OP which would have helped the people out on GJ in knowing ....while they were helping you on your project while replying.

I must ask with all due respect, why ask for advice on GJ when you were going to do the project the way you wanted anyway ?

You seem to have forgotten that I never asked which type of conduit was the preferred type. I asked how to pull through 250' of liquid tight. And I got plenty of great answers like using vacuum cleaners and the availability of 240' fish lines.

And of course I got plenty of answers advising me not to use liquid tight.

Thanks for the extra commentary.

 

[Speedy Petey]

And of course I got plenty of answers advising me not to use liquid tight.

The unfortunate part is that you'll NEVER come back here and admit what a hard time it was and what a terrible idea it was to use Sealtite for such a long underground run.

 

[MTW]

There's no harm done, that's how you learn, by trying it.

MTW Ω

 

[Aceman]

There's no harm done, that's how you learn, by trying it.

MTW Ω

That's a ridiculous answer, that's not how you learn, especially when you have people you can ask who have already been there, done that.

For example, when I'm training apprentices, I expect them to pay attention and realize there is a reason behind why we do things a certain way. That doesn't mean he tries all the wrong ways first, "because that's how you learn, by trying it."

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

That's a ridiculous answer, that's not how you learn, especially when you have people you can ask who have already been there, done that.

For example, when I'm training apprentices, I expect them to pay attention and realize there is a reason behind why we do things a certain way. That doesn't mean he tries all the wrong ways first, "because that's how you learn, by trying it."

Yeah but it sure is entertaining to watch though!
Us older guys got to this stage in the game through trial and error,If the new guys dont want to listen Im not going to beg them to.
But I will sit back and watch them fight it for a while though.

 

[MTW]

That's a ridiculous answer, that's not how you learn, especially when you have people you can ask who have already been there, done that.

For example, when I'm training apprentices, I expect them to pay attention and realize there is a reason behind why we do things a certain way. That doesn't mean he tries all the wrong ways first, "because that's how you learn, by trying it."

I thought it was more than appropriate for an apprentice that states:

You seem to have forgotten that I never asked which type of conduit was the preferred type. I asked how to pull through 250' of liquid tight. And I got plenty of great answers like using vacuum cleaners and the availability of 240' fish lines.

And of course I got plenty of answers advising me not to use liquid tight.

Thanks for the extra commentary.

In my world, I don't have time to convince the un-encouragable. If you didn't get the pun, I'm pretty sure others who have tried it did.

By the way, that's how I learned many of the things to not attempt. A employer that insisted on trying everything but the right thing, you really NEVER forget lessons learned this way.

MTW Ω

 

[gregtwojeeps]

You seem to have forgotten that I never asked which type of conduit was the preferred type. I asked how to pull through 250' of liquid tight. And I got plenty of great answers like using vacuum cleaners and the availability of 240' fish lines.

And of course I got plenty of answers advising me not to use liquid tight.

Thanks for the extra commentary.

I am not posting this in a mean spirited manner but simply attempting to put some clarification on why I made the comment above... that you replied to above. ....

When a poster comes to a electrical forum that has a lot of qualified electricians helping people out, the poster bears some responsibility for framing their question to where the posters can better understand the issue at hand. Yes, you did state your OP question about pulling the LAN cable through over a 200 ft. run of 3/4 " LT flex.... You got some great replies and even a simplistic reply like mine that required no tools, just simply tie a 1/2" hexnut on the pull string and drop it through each stick of PVC before you glued it...then drop the whole run of glued conduit in to the ditch and back fill... Then pull in a cleaning rag and stronger rope in with the already installed pull string..

You did not state that physical barriers would inhibit you from running straight PVC conduit once the electricians on here recommended not using LT flex. If you had came back and mentioned WHY you wanted to use flex, the posters would have been guiding you on how to run PVC in curved runs. Simply because to a pro sparky..trying to run conductors through 200 ft. of LT flex.... just doesn't suit well and is not the correct application for the raceway. I see now you are going to run the flex and I am sure you will make it work out well for you. Good luck on your project

 

[600SL]

I am not posting this in a mean spirited manner but simply attempting to put some clarification on why I made the comment above... that you replied to above. ....

When a poster comes to a electrical forum that has a lot of qualified electricians helping people out, the poster bears some responsibility for framing their question to where the posters can better understand the issue at hand. Yes, you did state your OP question about pulling the LAN cable through over a 200 ft. run of 3/4 " LT flex.... You got some great replies and even a simplistic reply like mine that required no tools, just simply tie a 1/2" hexnut on the pull string and drop it through each stick of PVC before you glued it...then drop the whole run of glued conduit in to the ditch and back fill... Then pull in a cleaning rag and stronger rope in with the already installed pull string..

You did not state that physical barriers would inhibit you from running straight PVC conduit once the electricians on here recommended not using LT flex. If you had came back and mentioned WHY you wanted to use flex, the posters would have been guiding you on how to run PVC in curved runs. Simply because to a pro sparky..trying to run conductors through 200 ft. of LT flex.... just doesn't suit well and is not the correct application for the raceway. I see now you are going to run the flex and I am sure you will make it work out well for you. Good luck on your project

OK there are other physical barriers besides curves that I didn't mention but my original question was answered very well in the first 8 reply's. It was only after the first 12 or so replies that this became the conduit equivalent of an oil thread on an automotive forum.

OK so now lets re-steer this thread into the one that discusses all the logistical issues of getting this job done.

1) This is not a dedicated trench. It was dug for water and gas to go back to the out building. Once inspection is complete for those two items, I will have limited time to bury a conduit, I may even have to give this task to the track hoe operator to do, or it may be myself at night possibly in the rain. For that reason, trying to figure out if PVC is flexible enough to make the bends or doing things like feeding a wire through 10' at a time are off the table. This task need to be, unroll and bury, and unfortunately that means running a conductor through after its buried.

2) Using other non-electrical type conduits, Pex, sprinkler tube, garden hose etc. These will probably all work just fine but who really knows. The fact that you may have used it and got paid for it and never heard form the customer is not proof that it works. I am an Aerospace engineer, one of my tasks has been to perform environmental testing on aircraft components against the elements. I can tell you there are a'lot of elements and that these tests are not easy to pass. So all I can say on this it that I know enough not to temp fate.

3) Maybe its hard. To an electrician if this were to take 4 hours that would be considered a disaster. For me, If I cant get the string through the conduit and found I had to go onto E-bay and buy a 240' fish tape and try again the next week only to find that the cable is getting stuck in the conduit an needs to only be pulled 1 inch at a time until stress is relived and it takes several weekends, that is a success.

 

[walrus]

And of course I got plenty of answers advising me not to use liquid tight.
.

There is a reason for that, its called the school of hard knocks.
Now that I went back and saw what you were actually using non metallic liquid tite, all I can say is good luck pulling anything in at 250 feet. if you are patient enough to get a string in, pulling something in will be a *****. Good luck

 

[jdieter]

600SL if you don't have time to confirm the integrity of the wiring before burying, maybe you can put the wire in the flex before the excavation.

 

[Rookie2]

I was waiting for the guy that sucked a VICE thru 3/4" ........ **** ! I read all this for nothing !

 

[RoyBell]

Maybe I am missing the point. Why not just put direct bury cable in the ground then? You seem to be concerned about ease of install and not so much changing the cable in the future.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AWQ13R6/?tag=atomicindus08-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CA2X5W6/?tag=atomicindus08-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005AIP8Z4/?tag=atomicindus08-20

All the options above are way cheaper than your current wire+nm conduit and obviously much easier to install since you just drop it in the ditch and go. Plus you can run 3-4 lines for the future in case one gets damaged.

I suggest you make a good as-built utilities going into the ditch should you ever need to bring something else out.

 

[simpler=better]

Glob some wire lube into the sealtite and **** it through with the vacuum before sending the string through.

I helped a guy pull through 50' of 3/4" sealtite and it was pretty challenging just getting the initial string through.(It was fished in an enclosed crawlspace... it was the only way to get a raceway without busting up a ton of concrete.)

 

[wyliesdiesels]

maybe i am missing the point. Why not just put direct bury cable in the ground then? You seem to be concerned about ease of install and not so much changing the cable in the future.

http://www.amazon.com/ethernet-wate...1446642842&sr=8-1&keywords=direct+burial+cat6

http://www.amazon.com/ethernet-wate...1446642842&sr=8-2&keywords=direct+burial+cat6

http://www.amazon.com/filled-floode...446642842&sr=8-13&keywords=direct+burial+cat6

all the options above are way cheaper than your current wire+nm conduit and obviously much easier to install since you just drop it in the ditch and go. Plus you can run 3-4 lines for the future in case one gets damaged.

I suggest you make a good as-built utilities going into the ditch should you ever need to bring something else out.

 

[brewchief]

3/4" NM flex is soft enough that it may deform enough if a rock is up against it that you may not get a wire through it, it is also as rubbery on the inside as it is on the outside so you will need lots of lube or you may have to use so much force that you damage the wire. Cat 6 or 7 wire looks like 4 pairs of 23 gauge wire, even with the outside jacket it's only going to handle so much pulling force.

Good luck, your going to need it.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[600SL]

Maybe I am missing the point. Why not just put direct bury cable in the ground then? You seem to be concerned about ease of install and not so much changing the cable in the future.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AWQ13R6/?tag=atomicindus08-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CA2X5W6/?tag=atomicindus08-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005AIP8Z4/?tag=atomicindus08-20

All the options above are way cheaper than your current wire+nm conduit and obviously much easier to install since you just drop it in the ditch and go. Plus you can run 3-4 lines for the future in case one gets damaged.

I suggest you make a good as-built utilities going into the ditch should you ever need to bring something else out.

That's the best plan I herd yet redundant direct burial cat 6 I may take you up on that one.

 

[600SL]

Glob some wire lube into the sealtite and **** it through with the vacuum before sending the string through.

Thinking outside the box